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16th Turkish General Election, 2007

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 16th Turkish General Election, 2007
    Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 09:25

Now we have to hear how wonderful the AKP is for the next five years? I don't think so. I think a few of you can't see the forest for the trees (An expression used of someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to look at the situation as a whole).

Let's see what has changed since the AKP stronghold on the public.
 
- By equating Imam Hatip degrees with high-school degrees, he, Erdogan, enabled Islamist students to enter university and qualify for government jobs without ever mastering Western fundamentals. He also sought to bypass checks and balances. After the Higher Education Board composed of university rectors rejected his demands to make universities more welcoming of political Islam, the AKP-dominated parliament proposed to establish 15 new universities. While Mr. Erdogan told diplomats his goal was to promote education, Turkish academics say the move would enable him to handpick rectors and swamp the board with political henchmen.
 
- Mr. Erdogan has replaced nearly every member of the banking regulatory board with officials from the Islamic banking sector. Accusations of Saudi capital subsidizing AKP are rampant. According to Turkish Central Bank statistics, in the first six months of this year, the net error -- money entering the Turkish economy for which regulators cannot account -- has increased almost eightfold compared to 2002, the year the AKP came to power. According to the opposition parliamentary bloc, debt amassed under Mr. Erdogan's administration is equal to total debt accrued in Turkey between 1970 and 2000.
 
- Turkish Airlines recently surveyed employees about their attitudes toward the Quran. On July 11, Mr. Erdogan publicly vouched for the sincerity of Yasin al-Qadi, a Saudi financier identified by both the U.N. and U.S. Treasury Department as an al Qaeda financier.
 
Most of you have already touched upon the agricultural crisis.
 
A bit of history on the insidious Erdogan:
 

The Turkish Republic is founded on the notion of the separation of mosque and state.

  • "We will turn all our schools into İmam Hatips [religious schools]"Cumhuriyet, Sept. 9, 1994
  • "Thank God Almighty, I am a servant of the Sharia." Milliyet, Nov. 21, 1994
  • "I am the imam of Istanbul."Hrriyet, Jan. 8, 1995
  • "The police operations against the turban are comical."Sabah, May 5, 1995
  • "I support the proposal to inaugurate the parliament by reciting the Qu'ran."Milliyet, Jan. 8, 1996

Mustafa Kemal Atatrk is the father of modern Turkey and the symbol of Turkish secularism.

  • "One ought not to stand [in respect, stiff] like a straw on Atatrk's commemoration events."Hrriyet, May 12, 1994
  • "There was much ado about nothing on November 10 [the commemoration of Atatrk's death]Hrriyet, Nov. 14, 1994

Turkish governments traditionally pride themselves on their embrace of and participation in European culture.

  • "I am against the [Western] New Year's celebrations."Sabah, Dec. 19, 1994
  • "Alcohol should be banned."Hrriyet, May 1, 1996
  • "Swimsuit commercials are lustful exploitations." Hrriyet, Mar. 6, 1996

More concerns. Green money:

Investment is healthy and should be welcome. The problem, which Turkish commentators refer to as Yeşil Sermaye ("Green Money"), is the opacity of Islamic investment. While Turkish politicians, journalists, and even banking officials acknowledge the influx of capital, it remains largely in the informal economy, subsidizing party coffers, slush funds, and perhaps political allies. The opacity--and the fact that the money appears linked to AKP stewardship--also raises questions about conditionality: is investment in Turkey contingent upon AKP efforts to draw the country away from its Western orientation and more into the Islamic sphere? http://www.meforum.org/article/1637
 
Erdoğan has placed Islamist bankers in key economic positions.
 

Not all money enters the economy legally. According to Ilhan Kesici, a former under secretary at the State Planning Organization, much enters "in suitcases" and remains outside regulation.[9] Under the AKP administration, the unofficial economy has grown exponentially. In Erdoğan's first year of stewardship, the net error in balance of payments rose from $118 million to $4.9 billion. As the AKP approaches elections, the influx of unexplained cash has again approached record levels,[10] raising the possibility that the AKP is using outside capital both to buy popularity and to stave off recession prior to elections. Green Money which now circulates in Turkey surpasses $13 billion,[11] more than the annual gross domestic product of Estonia, Bosnia, Bahrain, Jordan, and Azerbaijan.[12]

AKP officials dismiss speculation about their involvement with Green Money. They counter that persistent net error in balance of payments during their administration derives from private remittances from Germany, where two-thirds of expatriate Turkish workers reside. This explanation is inadequate. Remittances from Turkish workers peaked at $5 billion in 1998 but declined to less than $1 billion in 2004 after a prominent holding company's collapse and subsequent judicial lien.[13]

Central Bank statistics may be only the tip of the iceberg, as it is possible that the AKP has influenced data collection. Take compilation of tourism revenue, for example. Ankara bases its statistics upon visitor exit interviews. Kesici believes that selective sampling might enable a $2 billion overestimation of tourism revenue, mitigating what would otherwise be an even greater spike in net error.[14]

 

Corruption has eroded the AKP's support since its March 2004 peak. In the U.S. government, even midlevel employees must declare their assets. Leading politicians often make their tax returns accessible to journalists. In Turkey, prime ministers do the same; but Erdoğan initially refused, saying his wealth was his own and not a matter of public concern.[39]

When Erdoğan eventually relented, his declaration showed he was a multimillionaire. This raised further and, as yet, unresolved questions. Court documents show him to have only $330,000 in assets prior to assuming the premiership. He has not explained the source of his wealth. His accounting was also problematic. His declaration neither itemized his assets nor did it include gifts or property registered under others' names.[40] There remain questions, for example, about the arrangements under which Erdoğan occupies a house in Ankara and a multimillion dollar villa in Istanbul. The latter appears to be provided by Erdoğan's brother, whose own wealth has grown in proportion to Erdoğan's career. The two have a curious financial relationship. Prior to assuming the premiership, Erdoğan transferred shares of companies in which he had interest to his brother's stewardship. Such stocks did not appear among Erdoğan's assets, although he appears to benefit from them. Erdoğan failed to vacate all interests upon taking office. He remained a major shareholder in three major companies, all of which did business with or distribution for the confectionary giant lker, a company which enjoyed close ties to the Refah government and also purchased Faisal Finans. lker has thrived under Erdoğan. Only a sustained press outcry forced Erdoğan to announce divestment of shares.

More:
 
While AKP corruption might normally be more a matter for the Turkish electorate than a U.S. concern, AKP impropriety has impacted U.S. national security. Cuneyd Zapsu, Erdoğan's chief advisor, has donated money to Yasin al-Qadi, a Saudi businessman identified by both the U.S. Treasury Department and the United Nations as an al Qaeda financier.[45] While Zapsu initially denied the charges--and even threatened to sue those repeating them[46]--Council of Financial Crime Investigations files leaked to the press confirmed that Zapsu had donated $60,000 to a foundation run by al-Qadi in 1997. Two years later his mother transferred another $250,000.[47]
 
Maybe these suspicions are just that. Nothing more than coffee talk. Maybe the fact of the matter is that Turkey has become so entangled in the AKP web that even the once protective state and military is ridiculed for sticking up for secularist rights. In the mean time day to day activities take precedance over future stability. Therefore it really is hard to see the forest for the trees.
 
 
PS- Why did the AKP win with 46.7% of the vote?
 
Status Quo - "It's the Economy Stupid!" Let the good times roll
 
Weak Opposition - So many holes in the opposition that good 'ol patriots settled for CHP. Nothing to brag about either.
 
Erdogan the snake charmer - As astute as Putin, slick as Willie and rich as a Saudi oil tzar.
 
The 'Baba'factor - The Military ain't the stubborn bully it used to be. Not with EU demands and such. Plus what general has the street smarts to go one on one with Kasimpasa Tayyip?
 
There are more yet I'll expect you guys to dig some up.
 
 
 


Edited by Seko - 24-Jul-2007 at 09:41
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 10:59
 
I specially find that much funny..
 
 By equating Imam Hatip degrees with high-school degrees, he, Erdogan, enabled Islamist students to enter university and qualify for government jobs without ever mastering Western fundamentals.
 
Erdogan himself is graduated from Imam Hatip. So unlike you, majority of Turkey dont care this..
 
Also lets not forget, These schools operate under Turkish state so Stop to accuse my state with becoming islamic.LOL
 
After the Higher Education Board composed of university rectors rejected his demands to make universities more welcoming of political Islam,
 
Funny. what erdogan was talking about headscarf problem. It is a known fact Erdogan is against headscarf problem.. 47% did not care about his ideas..
 
the AKP-dominated parliament proposed to establish 15 new universities.
 
Bastard erdogan, He is trying to build 15 new univercities!!!!!!
 
- Mr. Erdogan has replaced nearly every member of the banking regulatory board with officials from the Islamic banking sector
 
Do you know, Profit of Ziraat Halbankası and vakıf bank? All of them are making profit. Before Erdogan, They were making loss.
 
Our banking system is healtY. Just before AKP, We met one of biggest bank system criss.. So It is difficult to accuse AKP for ruling bank system bad..
 
 
According to the opposition parliamentary bloc, debt amassed under Mr. Erdogan's administration is equal to total debt accrued in Turkey between 1970 and 2000.
 
Most of students who study at economy class know that Important thing is ratios and Ratio of Debt is decreased.. That accusation is again unfair.
 
So you should forsake to listen Baykal. He even said, Real interest rate of Turkey is 19%.  That moron dont even know difference between real and nominal interest and He is trying to rule Turkey. Find a better source.
 
The problem, which Turkish commentators refer to as Yeşil Sermaye
 
No she dont. It is funny same people accuse Erdogan, with refering islamic investment and jewish investment... It is boring..
 
 
 
Anyway, I dont reply other accusations.(Of course, I will reply If you prove your accusations with facts.)
 
what you said is almost same with what CHP said and We know what chp gained from this.. 20%
 
All of us can see forest, I think..
 
CHP is weak, Because She used your arguments and It is rejected by people..
 
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 11:49
Well, not being a mouthpice for the CHP, I am really interested in the allegations towards and statements from ye old headmaster, Erdogan. The majority's opinion is not particularly my specialty. I like to look under the sheets.
 
By repeating that 47% does or doesn't care about this or that is too general. Voters pick an issue or issues that are important to them. Doesn't mean they agree wholesale with all AKP policies.
 
Also lets not forget, These schools operate under Turkish state so Stop to accuse my state with becoming islamic
 
All state schools are controlled by the government. Who controls the gov? I can accuse my state, also, of turning Islamic. The public universities have been open to scrutiny since the allowance of state run religiously trained graduates.
 
the AKP-dominated parliament proposed to establish 15 new universities.
 
Bastard erdogan, He is trying to build 15 new univercities!!!!!!
 
Turkish academics say the move would enable him to handpick rectors and swamp the board with political henchmen. Anti- secular henchman is my guess.
 
 
 
Economical troubles were exasperated with the international financial crisis stemming from 97 in Japan.


Edited by Seko - 24-Jul-2007 at 12:18
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 12:42
Editorial:
 

Yet, a majority of Turks did not vote for AKP because of suspicions that it wants to keep the states secular appearance but slowly Islamicise society. Even some AKP supporters admit that they cannot be sure that the party does not have a hidden agenda. Such suspicions are inspired because most of the 17 groups that formed the AKP have histories of involvement with radical Islamist outfits dedicated to restoring the Caliphate or turning Turkey into an Islamic republic.

Mr Erdogan himself is an enigma. He gives the impression of a genuine democrat who believes that religion is a private matter. And yet he sent his daughters to university abroad because they were not allowed to wear the hijab at Turkish universities. His wife also wears the hijab. The hijab that the Erdogan womenfolk wear, however, is not the traditional Anatolian kapali (headscarf) that peasant women have always worn. Theirs is the type associated with political Islam since the 1970s.

Although there is little evidence of AKP involvement in conspiratorial politics, there is plenty of evidence that the party is engaged in a quiet purge of its opponents. Over the past four years many judges of secularist persuasion have been pushed into retirement, or demoted, and replaced by AKP sympathisers. There has also been a slow purge of schools, with an unknown number of teachers, branded as not Islamic enough. A similar changing of the guard is taking place within the armed forces, the traditional guardians of the secular republic. As for appointments to key posts in the public sector, the AKP has gone beyond the limits of normal grace-and-favour or nepotistic politics.

More importantly, religious themes have crept into Turkish school curriculums, while the Government subsidises religious cultural activities through the Endowments Office and the businesses under its control.
 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 12:44
All state schools are controlled by the government. Who controls the gov? I can accuse my state, also, of turning Islamic.
 
People of Turkey.. Democracy, remember. I think we can close this job.
 
do you also accuse your people because They dont vote for your pary?(CHP did this too)
 
Turkish academics say the move would enable him to handpick rectors and swamp the board with political henchmen. Anti- secular henchman is my guess.
 
Turkish academics? Who are they? do you know any univercity in 500 best univercity of Turkey? They are a failure because instead of doing their job, They are doing politics..
 
Their leader even said, AKP is working for ruling state. What a big crime. Sorry but YOK is nothing more than a sh*t hole and all Turkey know this...
 
AKP increased fund used for education.(not only univercity)
 
AKP is giving money to people, If they sent their girls to school. AKP is giving priority to education(First time in Turkey history, Fund for education exceeded fund for army)
 
So Accusing Erdogan with building 15 univercity is nothing more than funny.
Well, not being a mouthpice for the CHP, I am really interested in the allegations towards and statements from ye old headmaster, Erdogan.
 
He said I changed my mind. Dont he have this right?  Also,
 
"The police operations against the turban are comical."Sabah, May 5, 1995
 
what is wrong at this? It is not just comical but also stupid, cruelty and harsh action too.. It is funny you show this sentence as a bad one. Ironic.
 
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 12:51
Felix
Turkey could have, unethically, fixed the Kurdish problem during WW1 or two by simply moving its Kurdish population into the Mosul area and taking in the Turkmen of the area in their stead. At the time little would have been made of it and turkey would have very likely gotten away with it with Europe and Asia embroiled in its own problems.

In terms of autonomy, I think any recognition of Kurdish demands would be harmful for Turkey since it could only bolster separatist dreams and define Kurdish claims more clearly. Autonomy is the first step to statehood.
 
There are already many "separatist dreams", its nothing new.
Regarding a population exchange, when Kurdistan state is established in Iraq, the nationalist rulers there may to secure a majority Kurdish population in all areas request a population exchange with Kurds from Turkey and Turkmens of Kurdistan.
 
 
Mortaza
Suppressiong of Turkish nationalism and creating a country for every ethics would be enough..(Forgeting words like "how happy I am" or "Turkey for Turks" will be beneficiall too..
In reality,If we dont leave our turkishness, We cannot persuade them to leave their kurdishness.. Later, We should give them right to leave Turkey. They should stay inside of Turkey valuenterily

LOL

The funny part is, you seem to think Kurdish nationalism is linked to Turkish nationalism.

Lets be realistic. The drive of Kurdish nationalism is an ideology based upon being one of the worlds largest nations without a state. It wouldn't matter if all the Turks called themselves Arabs or denounced their nationhood, as long as there is no Kurdish state, the fuel of Kurdish nationalism will not end.

You actually believe Kurds will leave their Kurdishness Confused? sorry but I just find it naive.
A Kurdistan is going to be established in Northern Iraq, now this is going to rapidly boost Kurdish nationalism, even if Iran or Turkey later intervines and crushes any Kurdistan plans it will still cause Kurdish nationalism to grow.
 
Pkk terrorism will continue, Barzani will carry on trying to provoke Turkey, players outside Turkey will carry on trying to use the Kurds. EU will carry on playing games with Turkey, telling her to do as they wish and then make up excuses to not let them in, the state will carry on with her passive stance, the Cyprus issue will be used, the Armenian lobbies will carry on campaigning agains Turkey. Alternatives to EU will be taken more seriously, in Caucauses, Middle East, Russia, Iran, Central Asia.
 
Now in such an environment, trying to supress Turkish nationalism will result in it totally flourishing and it will carry on growing.
 
AKP wont be stupid enough to dare campaign against Turkish nationalism, they themselves have started the "One nation, one flag, one country" rhetoric.
Infact, AKP is far better than CHP in this respect, they don't try to weaken Gulen, Gulen is today one of the most sucessfull Pan-Turkists. AKP gave importance to carrying on the, "Turkic Kurultay", summit of Turkic states, which was founded by Alparslan Turkes.
 
 
 
Mortaza
If we dont change anyting, Turkey will be divided in long term.
 
Divided by who? who has a millitary force to carry this out within Turkey?
As long as the millitary is powerfull the country won't be divided, they will crush any uprising and be as brutal as necessary if they have to, thats the reality.
 
All parties are controlled directly and indirectly by silent players and top millitary officials. The AKP is as much there tool as any other party is. Its an orchastrated game, AKP is here today, a huge scam will be exposed and then it will be gone but the State and its millitary will survive.
 
The masses get excited there is some drama it ends and then begins again.
As Turkey becomes more democratic, there will be less difference between parties and in the end it won't really matter who is voted for the state determines the path.
 
 


Edited by Bulldog - 24-Jul-2007 at 13:13
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 13:03
Yet, a majority of Turks did not vote for AKP because of suspicions that it wants to keep the states secular appearance but slowly Islamicise society.
 
when did CHP become majority.
 
Even some AKP supporters admit that they cannot be sure that the party does not have a hidden agenda.
 
who are these supporters?
 
 And yet he sent his daughters to university abroad because they were not allowed to wear the hijab at Turkish universities.
 
what should erdogan do? force her daughters to open their hairs or dont send their children to univercity? disgusting.. 
 
 I refuse to reply remaining part of this disgusting unjust and unneutral writing.
 
I should add there are some lies like court thing too.
 
Noone in Turkey force a judge to retire. It is against to main law of Turkey. If this guy read turkish law, He would know this. what a commenter.
 
 
 


Edited by Mortaza - 24-Jul-2007 at 13:07
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 13:13
Divided by who? who has a millitary force to carry this out within Turkey?
 
You are as weird as our Kemalist Turkish generals. You think you can do every thing If you have more arms..
 
Instead of thinking with your weapon, think with your brain..
 
The funny part is, you seem to think Kurdish nationalism is linked to Turkish nationalism
 
No of course not.I am sure kurds dont care If someone ban their langauge,  torture them, refuse their identity, burn their villages, treat them bad, attack them. I am sure kurdish nationalism have no relation with Turkish one..
 
After all, Where in the world, a nationalism of one ethnic group increased nationalism of another ethnic group. This is against the nature.Ermm
 
 
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 13:38
Mortaza
You are as weird as our Kemalist Turkish generals. You think you can do every thing If you have more arms..
 
Instead of thinking with your weapon, think with your brain..
 
Your being naive again.
 
Its all good philosophising but if you want to compete with the big boys there are two key ingrediants, money and arms. Without money and arms all you can ever do is think, there will be no action.
 
Now, regarding the division of Turkey, it would require an organisation more powerfull, financially, millitarilly and pollitically than the army, which is highly unlikely.
 
 
Mortaza
No of course not.I am sure kurds dont care If someone ban their langauge,  torture them, refuse their identity, burn their villages, treat them bad, attack them. I am sure kurdish nationalism have no relation with Turkish one..
 
After all, Where in the world, a nationalism of one ethnic group increased nationalism of another ethnic group. This is against the nature.
 
Take off the Rose tinted glasses.
Kurds don't have a country. Teach their language, accept their identity, it won't solve the drive for a state.
Kurdish nationalism goes beyond borders, its a Pan-Kurdish ideal, Iraq, Syrian, Iranian, Turkish Kurds.
This ideology percieves the very existance of these states as a violation against their people.
 
Once Kurdistan is established in Northern Iraq properly, it will become the headquaters of Kurdish nationalism.
 
Kurdish nationalism will reduce due to Kurds who migrated and were forced into large cities, they will over the generations become assimilated into Turks. However, in majority Kurdish cities they won't assimilate.
If Kurdistan in Northern Iraq fails due its their own policies and rival clans start a civil war again, nationalism will reduce, if its sucessfull it will increase.


Edited by Bulldog - 24-Jul-2007 at 13:42
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 14:36
Bulldog,
 
Pan Ideologies are food of mega dreamers. Whether it comes ffom a Turk or Kurd it's all the same.
 
Governing one's own citizens is the rule of most any land. Partitioning the land for the sake of a few dreamers is out of the question.
 
Mortaza,
 
No comment.  
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 15:10
Seko, I think Kemalists can be accused of having a hidden agenda as well. I am quite positive that they don't give a sh*t about secularism.

Why would a pro-secular party ally itselft with MHP? As I said before, MHP is as much religious as AKP, if not more.

They didn't even hesitate to support radical Islamists againsts moderate Islamists, damn it! Cumhuriyet published Erbakan's anti-AKP propaganda from the first page!

Kemalists use secularism as a bureaucratic oppression tool against the masses. That's why AKP, the other wing of the upper-class who looks alike to common people, was so much popular.

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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 15:30
That is not MHP or CHP saying. Should I remind you their anti-foregein investment approach and their anti-global approachs?
 
I think most of that approach is just political rhetoric. If they were in power, they would have done the same. 
 
Also No need to over value IMF. Our debt to IMF is 8.000.000.000. If I am not wrong, We have 60.000.000.000$ in our central bank..
 
The economic recovery program, prepared by Kemal Dervis, then the head of World Bank (IMF's sister organisation), follows the well known neo-liberal ideological position. IMF agreed to help Turkey with credit only if Turkey follows this program. All Turkish governments were therefore committed to following it. If they didn't they would not have received any help from the IMF, which was crucial for the economy during the crisis.
 
AKP work with IMF because She prefer it and Turkey can find more cheap fund. We can resque ourself from IMF, If we accept price(a little more interest) of it.
 
It is a little more than that, I am afraid. IMF is one tool of the Northern world domination. It is not that easy to say no to it.
 
Please "ananı al da git" thing is not even an argument.
 
What I meant was Erdogan said this to a protesting farmer. Obviously farmers were not happy with his politics.
 
Now, some realities about farmers..
 - İFTİYE İYİ FİYAT, BOR ERTELEMESİ:
 
This was a prime example of 'election economics'. Give the farmers good news just before the elections. We should judge AKP by what they've been doing in the last few years.
 
That is a page far from neutral.  A party compete with AKP.
 
There is no such thing as a neutral opinion. Every word has a context and is written by a human being, who has his own ideas. Therefore we cannot prove that a claim is neutral, but we can prove if it is true or not. If it is true, it does not matter who wrote it.
 
I gave you the link to the TKP news site, because I know someone who writes there. He is an economist and an expert in agriculture policies. So I would expect to find interesting analyses. Of course the commentary will be biased, but it will be based on data and you should be able to come to your own decisions about it. I haven't read them much myself, I am not interested in agriculture that much.
 
I think, You dont see Banks as production?
 
There is short time investmend and long time investmen. It is easy to attract short time investment.(just give more interest) To attract long time investment is important thing.
 
AKP attracted more investment than all Turkish Republic history.
 
This data is from a report of the Treasury (Hazine mustesarligi) on direct foreign investment in 2006.
 
Increase of foreign investment in Turkey was 105.7%, three times the world average of 34.3%. 
 
Total amount was 20168 million US dollars. 2922 million of this was from sales of land and property. This has no positive effect on employment, or production. And the money from these sales went to the pockets of the people who owned these lands and properties, i.e. rich people.  
 
15400 million USD was due to unification and purchasing of firms. 13239 million of this value was from the sales of just five companies: Telsim, Denizbank, Finansbank, Turk Telekom and Petrol Ofisi. Again, not good for employment.
 
Favourites of the foreign capital were finance (44%) and telecom (40.5%). Not good sectors for creating jobs.

Of new investments, there were 1007 applications in the last five years, all of which were approved. Their total value was 12260 million USD. Of these 1007, only 431 projects, with a total value of 4550 million USD were totally new investments (from scratch). the number of totally new investment projects decreased to 82 in 2006 from 101 in 2003. So the investments which can create new jobs are only 20% or so of total foreign investment, and they are decreasing in number.
 
Also, an even more important point: in 2001, a total of 3352 million USD investment, and in 2002, 1137 million USD entered Turkey. Of this money, not even 1 cent returned as investment. Re-investment ratio was 0%.
 
In 2003, 1752 million USD entered, and out of the profit from this investment, just 132 million USD returned to Turkey in a new investment project. In 2004, numbers are 2883 / 204 millions. In 2005, 9801 / 81. And in 2006, 20168 / 144.
 
So you can see that while foreign investment is increasing, the return of investment is reducing. Foreign capital just takes the profits away form Turkey to Germany, UK and Holland (major investors)...
 
The five companies I mentioned above had a profit more than 3000 million USD last year. Foreign investors bought these companies, they get 3000 billions profit every year from them. But out of this 3000+ millions, only 144 millions returns to Turkey as investment according to the AKP's treasury department...
 
I'm not an economist, but I'd rather do without this kind of foreign investment. 
 
If you sell this enterprises to inner investment, It wont help you. If you sell it foreign investment, It means direct investment so you can use money you gain from privatization.
 
When selling public firms, it doesn't matter who pays for it. If Turkish capital pays for it, it is the same for the state. In any case, the profits are lost for the government. Nobody is stupid enough to buy an unprofitable firm.
 
Also lets not forget, most of foreign invester comes with buying already built institutions in world.(I think It should be between 70-80% of total foreign investmen)
 
You are right, I gave the details above.
 
That is why AKP sell these organizations? and that is why number of workers at state decrease?
 
There are other ways of corruption. In fact, 'arpalik' type of corruption is better than AKP style corruption. Because in one case poor people get money from the state, in the AKP style, however, rich people get money from the state... Smile
 
Comparing AKP with 1998 is unjust. You should compare it with end of 2002. When AKP began to governt it.
 
In fact, real wages are lower in industrial production than the wages in 2001.
 
Also lets not forget gini number, It says under akp rule, Poors get bigger portion of total wealth in Turkey..(not still enough.)
 
I think this is due to recovery form the crisis rather than AKP.
 
Also, which is our biggest export sector? and how many firm in this sector is turkish? how many workers  work at this sector? Just a hint, It has relation with cars.
 
Due to the real wages in industrial production being low, Turkey became competitive in export. However, this does not mean anything to me because it means the boss is getting richer, not the worker. If the boss increases the real wages, the exports will go down. Otherwise you can increase export as much as you like, and you will never get rid of poverty. South American countries prove this. The way out of this dilemma is export of high tech goods.
 
 
I agree AKP did not show enough success at this.
 
But If we look statistics. Infact under AKP rule, Turkey found a lot job but problem is that people who look for work is increasing(high population growth rate and immigrant to villages to cities) more than newly found jobs.
 
So unemployment rate does not fall..
 
As I wrote, left wing is primarily interested in labour rights, poverty, and employment. These are the important points on which I as a leftist, judge economic policy. Otherwise, even if the economy grows by 20% every year, I don't care.
 
As I wrote there are millions of child workers in Turkey. You can easily stop that and make those people employ adults if you want to.
 
Unemployment in Turkey does not fall, because the economic priority of government is not fighting unemployment. It is not their concern, because it is not the concern of the rich. It only becomes a problem if the unemployed people and the exploted workers organise in unions, and in political parties, and threaten profits. 
 
It is the job of the state to prevent this from happening and to protect the profits of the capitalist class. That is why AKP's EU reforms excluded the laws about worker rights, and that is why AKP's police terrorised the people of Istanbul on May 1.
 
Haha. Well, It is becoming better for Erdogan. Just dont forget Tansu and Mesut. It looks like They are returning back.. Lucky Erdogan..
 
I think Mesut Yilmaz is not as stupid as some others. But he can't do anything now, he has no party.
 
That is the biggest mistake even crime of AKP..
 
I wonder what will happen with DTP in the parliament. I am afraid they will be isolated. On the other hand, 340+27=367. AKP may have to talk with them.
 
Bir yıl boyle idare ederler. Sonra gene başlarlar ulkenin 53% size karşı diye. Tabi bu arada DTP adına konustuklarınında farkına varmazlar..
 
LOL Hakkaten 'bu ulkenin cogunlugu size karsi' falan diye yazilari bekliyorum. Bunlari okuyup guluyorum surekli: http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=227775
Emin Colajanini unutmuslar. 'MHP'den korkup anket uyduruyorlar' falan yazmisti fasist dallama. Hepsine kapak oldu.
Tabii Ardic'in agzi kulaklarinda: http://www.aksam.com.tr/yazar.asp?a=85041,10,2
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 16:00
The economic recovery program, prepared by Kemal Dervis, then the head of World Bank (IMF's sister organisation), follows the well known neo-liberal ideological position. IMF agreed to help Turkey with credit only if Turkey follows this program. All Turkish governments were therefore committed to following it. If they didn't they would not have received any help from the IMF, which was crucial for the economy during the crisis.
 
Criss is finished. AKP is following liberal economic politic valuentarily...(Not with IMF force)
 
It is a little more than that, I am afraid. IMF is one tool of the Northern world domination. It is not that easy to say no to it.
 
If you dont need it, You can say no to it.
 
Just remember, at 2002, We have no power even to argue with IMF.. Now, We can argue with it. We can even refuse It If neccessary..
 
What I meant was Erdogan said this to a protesting farmer. Obviously farmers were not happy with his politics.
 
Obviously that farmer does not represents farmer.. Abi bi provakatorden genelleme yapma Allah askına..
 
Total amount was 20168 million US dollars. 2922 million of this was from sales of land and property. This has no positive effect on employment, or production. And the money from these sales went to the pockets of the people who owned these lands and properties, i.e. rich people.  
 
 
15400 million USD was due to unification and purchasing of firms. 13239 million of this value was from the sales of just five companies: Telsim, Denizbank, Finansbank, Turk Telekom and Petrol Ofisi. Again, not good for employment.
 
So what did they make with this money? They can put that money to bank,  So interests at Turkey will decrease. It will help firms to fund their job more cheap. This will help production..
 
Money is like water bu sure It find Its way. Oneway or another way, New fund which we find from outside of Turkey will increase production.
  
When selling public firms, it doesn't matter who pays for it. If Turkish capital pays for it, it is the same for the state.
 
Yes, but It is different for country. If money comes form out side, It become new fund. Other wise, Bir cepten diğer cebe koymak.
 
 In any case, the profits are lost for the government. Nobody is stupid enough to buy an unprofitable firm
 
we should not only look for profit but profit/capital ratio.. In private sector, This ratios is generally more than govermental firms..
 
 There are other ways of corruption. In fact, 'arpalik' type of corruption is better than AKP style corruption. Because in one case poor people get money from the state, in the AKP style, however, rich people get money from the state... Smile
 
So tell me what is this corruption. I am working at state, I am not aware of such common corruption. 
 
In fact, real wages are lower in industrial production than the wages in 2001.
 
where did you get that numbers? Or what is numbers?
 
I think this is due to recovery form the crisis rather than AKP.
 
Yep, so economic growth helped poors. I should also add, AKP cannot create a bigger economic growth with anti enflastionist policy..
 
e to the real wages in industrial production being low, Turkey became competitive in export. However, this does not mean anything to me because it means the boss is getting richer, not the worker. If the boss increases the real wages, the exports will go down. Otherwise you can increase export as much as you like, and you will never get rid of poverty. South American countries prove this. The way out of this dilemma is export of high tech goods.
 
This argument fails If we look gini number. At last 4 year, Poor gained more than rich.(If we accept gini number true.)
 
 
As I wrote, left wing is primarily interested in labour rights, poverty, and employment. These are the important points on which I as a leftist, judge economic policy. Otherwise, even if the economy grows by 20% every year, I don't care
 
AKP is following liberal politics.
 
Unemployment in Turkey does not fall, because the economic priority of government is not fighting unemployment. It is not their concern, because it is not the concern of the rich. It only becomes a problem if the unemployed people and the exploted workers organise in unions, and in political parties, and threaten profits. 
 
Not excatly..Liberal politics dont interfere much with economical system.
 
But I agree, There are some problem at social politics.. (Erdogan himself already accept this.)
 
I wonder what will happen with DTP in the parliament. I am afraid they will be isolated. On the other hand, 340+27=367. AKP may have to talk with them.
 
They will be isolated unless They refuse PKK. Noone can take that risk.


Edited by Mortaza - 24-Jul-2007 at 16:11
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 16:19

"The police operations against the turban are comical."Sabah, May 5, 1995

I agree. 

"One ought not to stand [in respect, stiff] like a straw on Atatrk's commemoration events."Hrriyet, May 12, 1994

"There was much ado about nothing on November 10 [the commemoration of Atatrk's death]Hrriyet, Nov. 14, 1994

I agree.

"Swimsuit commercials are lustful exploitations." Hrriyet, Mar. 6, 1996

I agree.
 
Smile
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 16:26
Originally posted by Kemalist White Turks

Mine Kırıkkanat: Anketi duydum 'Oha' dedim (Vatan, 18 Temmuz)

Dn bir arkadaşım, son seim anketine gre oy dağılımını bildirdi: AKP yzde 47.9. Vallahi farkında bile olmadım, ağzımdan tek szck ıkmış: Oha! 'ş' de diyebilirdim. Ama beynim, sahtekrlığın bu kadar kalını, yalanın byle hamı, soytarılığın bunca kabası, densiz ve yontulmamış kurnazlık karşısında, ancak insanoğlunun homurtularla konuştuğu bellek katmanında bulmuştu gerekli tepkiyi. Odun gibi, ağız dolusu, gırtlağımın tm baslarını gerektiren bir 'oha'.

Bekir Coşkun: Erdemli tarhana (Hrriyet, 20 Temmuz)

Tarhan Erdem'in şirketinin dnk Radikal'de yayımlanan kamuoyu yoklamasına gre, yzde 48... Allah'a şkretmeliyiz ki bu erdemli tarhana yoklamalar hibir zaman tutmuş değil.

Emin laşan: MHP korkusu dağları brd (Hrriyet, 21 Temmuz)

Şimdi dzmece anketler zamanı! Masa başında oturup anket retiyorlar! AKP yzde 48! Korku dağları brd, bu yolla milleti etkilemeye kalkışıyorlar. Hem CHP'den, ama zellikle MHP'den korkuyorlar. nc sınıf tetikilerini ekranlara ıkarıp MHP'yi uyarıyorlar, ağrıda bulunuyorlar, rahmetli Alparslan Trkeş'in ismini kullanıp dzmece belgeleri kendi gazetelerinde ve ekranlarında yayınlıyorlar.CHP ve MHP geliyor. Her ikisi de bu iktidarın yolsuzluklarının, vurgunlarının hesabını soracaklarını aıka ilan ettiler. Bundan geri dnş yok. Dokunulmazlıklar kalkacak, hırsızlar Ağır Ceza Mahkemeleri ve Yce Divan'da yargılanacak. Trkiye'nin beş yıl boyunca nasıl soyulduğu, yandaşlara, işbirlikilere ve yabancılara nasıl peşkeş ekildiği, iktidar sahiplerinin malı oluk ocuk, aile boyu nasıl gtrdğ yargı nnde belgelenecek.

Those of you who do not know Turkish are missing a lot.

I don't think Baykal failed CHP, even 20% is too much for their current political context.



Edited by Feanor - 24-Jul-2007 at 16:41
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 16:31

I wish Yılmaz OZDİL did not leave from Sabah.

So I can laugh him too..LOL
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 16:35
Sorry to interrupt, and doubly sorry if this has been dealt with before. I am utterly unfamiliar with Turkish politics, and was wondering if someone could answer a question for me:
 
How is the recent election likely to affect Turkey's Orthodox Christian minority, and particularly the Ecumenical Patriarchate?
 
Thanks again, and God bless. Smile
 
-Akolouthos
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 16:40
WinkFeanor, humorous and many wrong predictions with accompnaying exclamations. "Oha"
 
 
Beyfendi, - I agree that police operations were a stupid show of force.
                - I disagree with Erdogan's lack of protocol with Nov 10.
                - Lustful exploitations are all over the back pages of Sabah, Hurriyet, etc..
 
 
Mortaza, whatever! Wink
 
 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 16:44
How is the recent election likely to affect Turkey's Orthodox Christian minority, and particularly the Ecumenical Patriarchate?
 
It wont. Specially ecumenical partiarchate..
 
 
Seko your point?


Edited by Mortaza - 24-Jul-2007 at 16:48
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 17:20
Seko
Pan Ideologies are food of mega dreamers. Whether it comes ffom a Turk or Kurd it's all the same.
 
The ideal of Kurdistan is Pan-Kurdism.
When Iraqi or Southern Kurdistan is formed, they will have an ethnic Turkish problem while Turkey has her Kurdish problem.
Infact it will be a similar situation, around 12-15% of Turkey is Kurdish, in Iraqi Kurdistan according to the UNPO they make up 10-13% of the population.
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Bulldog - 24-Jul-2007 at 17:24
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