Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

American Empire

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Tk101 View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 18-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
  Quote Tk101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: American Empire
    Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 12:19
HEllo, I'm curious to know what others on our lovely board think about the concept of" American EMpire". Looking over american history and comparing it to other civlization in the past would it be right to call the US an EMpire?
there is only one truth
- Conan
[IMG]http://www.architecture.org/shop/images/402036lg.jpg[IMG]
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 12:47
More than an empire, the U.S. states is a country that has impossed its will by force upon others. An empire is a collection of countries under the direct political control of a dominant nation. It was the case of Britain in HK, India and Africa. It is not the case with the U.S., which only controls directly its own territory.
Back to Top
Tk101 View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 18-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
  Quote Tk101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 18:12
but i thought being an  empire meant to exapand that nation's influence/culture/ ideas beyond it's borders? todays nations are less likely to conquer like the antediluvian civilizations.
 
there is only one truth
- Conan
[IMG]http://www.architecture.org/shop/images/402036lg.jpg[IMG]
Back to Top
Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Cuba
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1355
  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 08:00
US is definitely an Empire. It was so from the beginning.
Back to Top
Tk101 View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 18-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
  Quote Tk101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 12:06
i tend to agree but i know some people have an issue with it being called one...whats wrong with being called an empire? is it not a zenith of civilization? indeed from its beginning hence its exapnsion west and that manifest destiny thing
there is only one truth
- Conan
[IMG]http://www.architecture.org/shop/images/402036lg.jpg[IMG]
Back to Top
Maharbbal View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 13:49
Tk101 why do you ask questions you've already made your mind up about? Why don't you expose your definition of empire? Actually the very fact that you are asking it would tend to support the fact that it is not an empire but that it has imperial traits. And then again these traits may have been clearer at times.

The US are the heirs of an Empire. The question is was it still one after 1787? Is a colony freed from the metropol's management still a colony? I'd say yes of course. And the expansionist tendency of the newly formed country would go in the same sense. But the conquest has been over for over a century now, will the US be a colony for ever? I'd say no, it has created its own center of gravity in a way, it is way more than a mere shoot out. If the US are still an Empire so are every single ex-European colony

The US have expended way beyond its borders in a typical imperial way. The attacks over Carabbean and Mesoamerican countries is the best example but Philippines are as well. But here there is a size issue: are Guam, Porto Rico, Alaska and the Panama canal enough to form an Empire? I mean beside the military aggression. This is made even more difficult by the fact that the US almost never stayed long and even more rarely had to face an anticolonial guerrilla.

The imperialist behaviour of the US are more subtle than the simple creation of an Empire. But their creation of areas of influence is very close to the definition of Imperialism as developed in China in the 19th century by the European power. The Monroe doctrine, the commodore Perry, the war in Vietnam, the murder of Aliende, the wars in the Middle East and the existence of military bases all over the world are excellent examples of it. But here is the issue: every country that had a chance did exactly the same (USSR, the Europeans, China, even Cuba sent troops the world over). I guess the US are loosing their imperial characteristics by the day and becoming a state as any other state, only more powerful. The so-called economic neo-imperialism is the best example of the fact that any country behaves imperialistically if given a chance. The dynamics of any state is to defend its interests and there is no clear border between defending yours and offending others'.
I am a free donkey!
Back to Top
Penelope View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Alia Atreides

Joined: 26-Aug-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1042
  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 00:34
If the United States Of America is truely an "Empire", people must take into consideration that it is absolutely impossible for every president or "emperor" to be a good one. Every supposed "Empire" had good leaders, and bad leaders.
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 01:12
It is indeed an empire. Expansion beyond colonial limits and the desire to conquer new territory was one of the very reasons why the American Revolution occurred in the first place, and a key reason at that.
 
I would say that overall, America's Empire compares quite well relative to most Empires of the past. Their overall level of persecution and killing of their own citizenry has been pretty low, they have proven themselves to be extremely dynamic in academic institutions, technological innovation and industrial design, and typically they survive without actually occupying other nations (though there are exceptions to this, of course).
 
They embraced a lot of Enlightenment principles and new ways of thinking about government and economy, which fuelled their dynamism and their rise to power. They have made important advances in the concept of meritocracy, and have provided the world with an alternative to the totalitarian leadership of fascist and communist bloc nations.
 
Every empire has committed atrocities and has its failings, you won't identify one which doesn't. I think that relative to past Empires, the USA is a substantial improvement.
Back to Top
Tk101 View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 18-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
  Quote Tk101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 11:04
Originally posted by Maharbbal

Tk101 why do you ask questions you've already made your mind up about? Why don't you expose your definition of empire? Actually the very fact that you are asking it would tend to support the fact that it is not an empire but that it has imperial traits. And then again these traits may have been clearer at times.

The US are the heirs of an Empire. The question is was it still one after 1787? Is a colony freed from the metropol's management still a colony? I'd say yes of course. And the expansionist tendency of the newly formed country would go in the same sense. But the conquest has been over for over a century now, will the US be a colony for ever? I'd say no, it has created its own center of gravity in a way, it is way more than a mere shoot out. If the US are still an Empire so are every single ex-European colony

The US have expended way beyond its borders in a typical imperial way. The attacks over Carabbean and Mesoamerican countries is the best example but Philippines are as well. But here there is a size issue: are Guam, Porto Rico, Alaska and the Panama canal enough to form an Empire? I mean beside the military aggression. This is made even more difficult by the fact that the US almost never stayed long and even more rarely had to face an anticolonial guerrilla.

The imperialist behaviour of the US are more subtle than the simple creation of an Empire. But their creation of areas of influence is very close to the definition of Imperialism as developed in China in the 19th century by the European power. The Monroe doctrine, the commodore Perry, the war in Vietnam, the murder of Aliende, the wars in the Middle East and the existence of military bases all over the world are excellent examples of it. But here is the issue: every country that had a chance did exactly the same (USSR, the Europeans, China, even Cuba sent troops the world over). I guess the US are loosing their imperial characteristics by the day and becoming a state as any other state, only more powerful. The so-called economic neo-imperialism is the best example of the fact that any country behaves imperialistically if given a chance. The dynamics of any state is to defend its interests and there is no clear border between defending yours and offending others'.
 
in regards to your first paragraph...
i distinctly remeber saying ...i wanted to know what others thought about it...so yes in this case i am asking a QUESTION that i HAVE an answer to...I would like to fully understand the concept of such an thing, hence AMerican Empire.
Expose my definition? per say i dont have a definition...I simply wished to compare empires of the past with America....
there is only one truth
- Conan
[IMG]http://www.architecture.org/shop/images/402036lg.jpg[IMG]
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818
  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2007 at 05:59
Even though this isn't exactly the way i would have asked the question. However the well thought out views by a few who already contributed, specifically Maharbbal & Constantine, is what i was looking for from a different part of the AE discussion boards:
 
Though my mind is still not made up on what i think about this, some where in between of... yes we are, or no we are not. I get the impression, that this subject is the $100 million dollar question of this century?
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Tk101 View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 18-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
  Quote Tk101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2007 at 15:35
Hmm Panther you do have a point... i guess my stance is that we are one but dont fit all the criteria or resemble the more crude and conquering ones of the past
i believe there is another term to use especailly for america...but i forgot what it could be..


Edited by Tk101 - 27-Jul-2007 at 15:36
there is only one truth
- Conan
[IMG]http://www.architecture.org/shop/images/402036lg.jpg[IMG]
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818
  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2007 at 20:30
Tk101,
 
Yes, it is extremely hard too answer, that is why i think most have given up on the debate. However, i see a bit of a connection between Roman thinking and American thinking in regards to how we see our individual nations/country/empire, or what have you. Namely, whether we are.. or are we not an empire?
 
As far as i understand my history, the Roman's scoffed at the idea pretty much like we do. Yet other's throught history have always seen them in a way such as only this (From the website of http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/what-if.htm):
 
 
 
When the average Roman really saw themseleves in this way:
 
 
I guess that's why for most people it's much easier too see us in this way:
 

Rather than the maps most of the rest of us are really used.
 
Sure this all sounds and appears rather simplistic. But, i am afraid as greatly as knowledge and communications has advanced around the world... the complexities of understanding one another are still several centuries in lagging behind. You may too face the prospect of your question never really being answered in your life time!
 
Back to Top
Justinian View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
King of Númenor

Joined: 11-Nov-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2007 at 18:45

I would say from 1776 to 1898 the U.S. was a country that had imperialistic tendencies, since 1898 I would say the U.S. is an empire in the modern era.  Controlling peoples through its own culture more than territory. (think McDonalds or Coke)

"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2007 at 22:16

Agreed!

The U.S. is more a country that controls others by violence rather than an Empire that control peoples and territories. The U.S. keep invading, killing people by the millions and destroying societies, but they usually don't keep the territories they invade for them. They just left them to bleed alone.
 
The list of invasions and extraterritorial actions of the U.S. are really impresive. Something the world knows, but Americans themselves are not very aware of.
 
Extraterritorial and major domestic deployments

Portions of this list are from the Congressional Research Service report RL30172.[1]

1775-1800

1798-1800 -- Undeclared Naval War with France (Quasi-War). This contest included land actions, such as that in the Dominican Republic, city of Puerto Plata, where U.S. Marines captured a French privateer under the guns of the forts. Congress authorized military action through a series of statutes.[RL30172]

1800-1809

1801-05 -- Tripoli. The First Barbary War included the USS George Washington and USS Philadelphia affairs and the Eaton expedition, during which a few marines landed with United States Agent William Eaton to raise a force against Tripoli in an effort to free the crew of the Philadelphia from the Barbary pirates. Tripoli declared war but not the United States, although Congress authorized US military action by statute.[RL30172]

1806 -- Mexico (Spanish territory). Captain Zebulon M. Pike, with a platoon of troops, invaded Spanish territory at the headwaters of the Rio Grande on orders from General James Wilkinson. He was made prisoner without resistance at a fort he constructed in present day Colorado, taken to Mexico, and later released after seizure of his papers.[RL30172]

1806-10 -- Gulf of Mexico. American gunboats operated from New Orleans against Spanish and French privateers off the Mississippi Delta, chiefly under Captain John Shaw and Master Commandant David Porter.[RL30172]

1810-1819

1810 -- West Florida (Spanish territory). Governor William C.C. Claiborne of Louisiana, on orders of the President, occupied with troops territory in dispute east of the Mississippi as far as the Pearl River, later the eastern boundary of Louisiana. He was authorized to seize as far east as the Perdido River.[RL30172]

1812 Amelia Island and other parts of east Florida, then under Spain. Temporary possession was authorized by President James Madison and by Congress, to prevent occupation by any other power; but possession was obtained by General George Mathews in so irregular a manner that his measures were disavowed by the President.[RL30172]

1812-15 War of 1812. On June 18, 1812, the United States declared war against the United Kingdom. Among the issues leading to the war were British interception of neutral ships and blockades of the United States during British hostilities with France. [RL30172]

1813 -- West Florida (Spanish territory). On authority given by Congress, General Wilkinson seized Mobile Bay in April with 600 soldiers. A small Spanish garrison gave way. Thus U.S. troops advanced into disputed territory to the Perdido River, as projected in 1810. No fighting.[RL30172]

1813-14 Marquesas Islands. (French Polynesia) US forces built a fort on the island of Nukahiva to protect three prize ships which had been captured from the British.[RL30172]

1814 -- Spanish Florida. General Andrew Jackson took Pensacola and drove out the British forces.[RL30172]

1814-25 -- Caribbean. Engagements between pirates and American ships or squadrons took place repeatedly especially ashore and offshore about Cuba, Puerto Rico, Santo Domingo, and Yucatan. Three thousand pirate attacks on merchantmen were reported between 1815 and 1823. In 1822, Commodore James Biddle employed a squadron of two frigates, four sloops of war, two brigs, four schooners, and two gunboats in the West Indies.[RL30172]

1815 -- Algiers. The second Barbary War was declared against the United States by the Dey of Algiers of the Barbary states, an act not reciprocated by the United States. Congress did authorize a military expedition by statutes. A large fleet under Captain Stephen Decatur attacked Algiers and obtained indemnities.[RL30172]

1815 -- Tripoli. After securing an agreement from Algiers, Captain Decatur demonstrated with his squadron at Tunis and Tripoli, where he secured indemnities for offenses during the War of 1812.[RL30172]

1816 -- Spanish Florida. United States forces destroyed Negro Fort, which harbored fugitive slaves making raids into United States territory.[RL30172]

1816-18 -- Spanish Florida - First Seminole War. The Seminole Indians, whose area was a haven for escaped slaves and border ruffians, were attacked by troops under General Jackson and General Edmond P. Gaines and pursued into northern Florida. Spanish posts were attacked and occupied, British citizens executed. In 1819 the Floridas were ceded to the United States.[RL30172]

1817 Amelia Island(Spanish territory off Florida). Under orders of President James Monroe, United States forces landed and expelled a group of smugglers, adventurers, and freebooters.[RL30172]

1818 -- Oregon. The USS Ontario dispatched from Washington, which made a landing at the mouth of the Columbia River to assert US claims. Britain had conceded sovereignty but Russia and Spain asserted claims to the area.[RL30172] Subsequently, American and British claims to the Oregon Country were resolved with the Oregon Treaty of 1846.[RL30172]

1820-1829

1820-23 -- Africa. Naval units raided the slave traffic pursuant to the 1819 act of Congress. [RL30172][Slave Traffic]

1822 -- Cuba. United States naval forces suppressing piracy landed on the northwest coast of Cuba and burned a pirate station.[RL30172]

1823 -- Cuba. Brief landings in pursuit of pirates occurred April 8 near Escondido; April 16 near Cayo Blanco; July 11 at Siquapa Bay; July 21 at Cape Cruz; and October 23 at Camrioca.[RL30172]

1824 -- Cuba. In October the USS Porpoise landed bluejackets near Matanzas in pursuit of pirates. This was during the cruise authorized in 1822.[RL30172]

1824 -- Puerto Rico (Spanish territory). Commodore David Porter with a landing party attacked the town of Fajardo which had sheltered pirates and insulted American naval officers. He landed with 200 men in November and forced an apology. Commodore Porter was later court-martialed for overstepping his powers.[RL30172]

1825 -- Cuba. In March cooperating American and British forces landed at Sagua La Grande to capture pirates.[RL30172]

1827 -- Greece. In October and November landing parties hunted pirates on the Mediterranean islands of Argenteire, Miconi, and Androse.[RL30172]

 1830-1839

1831-32 Falkland Islands. Captain Duncan of the USS Lexington investigated the capture of three American sealing vessels and sought to protect American interests.[RL30172]

1832 Sumatra. (Indonesia) - February 6 to 9. A naval force landed and stormed a fort to punish natives of the town of Quallah Battoo for plundering the American ship Friendship.[RL30172]

1833 -- Argentina. - October 31 to November 15. A force was sent ashore at Buenos Aires to protect the interests of the United States and other countries during an insurrection.[RL30172]

1835-36 -- Peru. - December 10, 1835, to January 24, 1836, and August 31 to December 7, 1836. Marines protected American interests in Callao and Lima during an attempted revolution.[RL30172]

1836 -- Mexico. General Gaines occupied Nacogdoches (Texas), disputed territory, from July to December during the Texan war for independence, under orders to cross the "imaginary boundary line" if an Indian outbreak threatened.[RL30172]

1838 - The Caroline Affair on Navy Island, Canada. After the failure of the Upper Canada Rebellion of 1837 favoring Canadian democracy and independence from the British Empire; William Lyon Mackenzie and his rebels fled to Navy Island where they declared the Republic of Canada. American sympathizers sent supplies on the S.S. Caroline, which was intercepted by the British and set ablaze, after killing one American. It was falsely reported that dozens of Americans were killed as they were trapped on board, and American forces retaliated by burning a British steamer while it was in US waters.

1838-39 Sumatra (Indonesia). - December 24, 1838, to January 4, 1839. A naval force landed to punish natives of the towns of Quallah Battoo and Muckie (Mukki) for depredations on American shipping.[RL30172]

 1840-1849

1840 -- Fiji Islands. - July. Naval forces landed to punish natives for attacking American exploring and surveying parties.[RL30172]

1841 -- Drummond Island, Kingsmill Group (Pacific Ocean). A naval party landed to avenge the murder of a seaman by the natives.[RL30172]

1841 Samoa. - February 24. A naval party landed and burned towns after the murder of an American seaman on Upolu Island.[RL30172]

1842 -- Mexico. Commodore T.A.C. Jones, in command of a squadron long cruising off California, occupied Monterey, Calif., on October 19, believing war had come. He discovered peace, withdrew, and saluted. A similar incident occurred a week later at San Diego.[RL30172]

1843 -- China. Sailors and marines from the St. Louis were landed after a clash between Americans and Chinese at the trading post in Canton.[RL30172]

1843 -- Africa. - November 29 to December 16. Four United States vessels demonstrated and landed various parties (one of 200 marines and sailors) to discourage piracy and the slave trade along the Ivory Coast, and to punish attacks by the natives on American seamen and shipping.[RL30172]

1844 -- Mexico. President Tyler deployed US forces to protect Texas against Mexico, pending Senate approval of a treaty of annexation. (Later rejected.) He defended his action against a Senate resolution of inquiry.[RL30172]

1846-48 -- Mexican-American War After the annexation of Texas in 1845, the United States and Mexico failed to resolve a boundary dispute and President Polk said that it was necessary to deploy forces in Mexico to meet a threatened invasion. On May 13,1846, declared war with Mexico.[RL30172]

1849 Smyrna (Izmir, Turkey). In July a naval force gained release of an American seized by Austrian officials.[RL30172]

 1850-1859

1851 -- Turkey. After a massacre of foreigners (including Americans) at Jaffa in January, a demonstration by the Mediterranean Squadron was ordered along the Turkish (Levant) coast.[RL30172]

1851 -- Johanns Island (east of Africa). - August. Forces from the US sloop of war Dale exacted redress for the unlawful imprisonment of the captain of an American whaling brig.[RL30172]

1852-53 -- Argentina. - February 3 to 12, 1852; September 17, 1852 to April 1853. Marines were landed and maintained in Buenos Aires to protect American interests during a revolution.[RL30172]

1853 -- Nicaragua. - March 11 to 13. US forces landed to protect American lives and interests during political disturbances.[RL30172]

1853-54 -- Japan. Commodore Matthew Perry and his expedition made a display of force leading to the "opening of Japan."[RL30172]

1853-54 -- Ryūkyū and Bonin Islands (Japan). Commodore Matthew Perry on three visits before going to Japan and while waiting for a reply from Japan made a naval demonstration, landing marines twice, and secured a coaling concession from the ruler of Naha on Okinawa; he also demonstrated in the Bonin Islands with the purpose of securing facilities for commerce.[RL30172]

1854 -- China. - April 4 to June 15 to 17. American and English ships landed forces to protect American interests in and near Shanghai during Chinese civil strife.[RL30172]

1854 -- Nicaragua. - July 9 to 15. Naval forces bombarded and burned San Juan del Norte (Greytown) to avenge an insult to the American Minister to Nicaragua.[RL30172]

1855 -- China. - May 19 to 21. US forces protected American interests in Shanghai and, from August 3 to 5 fought pirates near Hong Kong.[RL30172]

1855 -- Fiji Islands. - September 12 to November 4. An American naval force landed to seek reparations for attacks on American residents and seamen.[RL30172]

1855 -- Uruguay. - November 25 to 29. United States and European naval forces landed to protect American interests during an attempted revolution in Montevideo.[RL30172]

1856 -- Panama, Republic of New Grenada. - September 19 to 22. US forces landed to protect American interests during an insurrection.[RL30172]

1856 -- China. - October 22 to December 6. US forces landed to protect American interests at Canton during hostilities between the British and the Chinese, and to avenge an assault upon an unarmed boat displaying the United States flag.[RL30172]

1857-58 -- Utah War. The Utah War was a dispute between Mormon settlers in Utah Territory and the United States federal government. The Mormons and Washington each sought control over the government of the territory, with the national government victorious. The confrontation between the Mormon militia and the U.S. Army involved some destruction of property, but no actual battles between the contending military forces. More than 100 civilians were killed, however, in the Mountain Meadows massacre, which was a massacre of California-bound settlers from Arkansas by Mormon militia and Paiutes.

1857 -- Nicaragua. - April to May, November to December. In May Commander Charles H. Davis of the United States Navy, with some marines, received the surrender of William Walker, self proclaimed president of Nicaragua, who was losing control of the country to forces financed by his former business partner, Cornelius Vanderbilt, and protected his men from the retaliation of native allies who had been fighting Walker. In November and December of the same year United States vessels USS Saratoga, USS Wabash, and Fulton opposed another attempt of William Walker on Nicaragua. Commodore Hiram Paulding's act of landing marines and compelling the removal of Walker to the United States, was tacitly disavowed by Secretary of State Lewis Cass, and Paulding was forced into retirement.[RL30172]

1858 -- Uruguay. - January 2 to 27. Forces from two United States warships landed to protect American property during a revolution in Montevideo.[RL30172]

1858 -- Fiji Islands. - October 6 to 16. A marine expedition with the USS Vandalia enacted revenge on natives for the murder of two American citizens at Waya.[RL30172] [] [Vandalia 2]

1858-59 -- Turkey. The Secretary of State requested a display of naval force along the Levant after a massacre of Americans at Jaffa and mistreatment elsewhere "to remind the authorities (of Turkey) of the power of the United States."[RL30172]

1859 -- Paraguay. Congress authorized a naval squadron to seek redress for an attack on a naval vessel in the Parana River during 1855. Apologies were made after a large display of force.[RL30172]

1859 -- Mexico. Two hundred United States soldiers crossed the Rio Grande in pursuit of the Mexican bandit Juan Cortina.[RL30172] [1859 Mexico]

1859 -- China. - July 31 to August 2. A naval force landed to protect American interests in Shanghai.[RL30172]

 1860-1869

1860 -- Angola, Portuguese West Africa. - March 1. American residents at Kissembo called upon American and British ships to protect lives and property during problems with natives.[RL30172]

1860 -- Colombia, Bay of Panama. - September 27 to October 8. Naval forces landed to protect American interests during a revolution.[RL30172]

1861-65 -- American Civil War A major war between the United States (the "Union") and eleven Southern slave states which declared that they had a right to secession and formed the Confederate States of America,

1863 -- Japan. - July 16. The USS Wyoming retaliated against a firing on the American vessel Pembroke at Shimonoseki.[RL30172]

1864 -- Japan.- July 14 to August 3. Naval forces protected the United States Minister to Japan when he visited Yedo to negotiate concerning some American claims against Japan, and to make his negotiations easier by impressing the Japanese with American power.[RL30172]

1864 -- Japan. - September 4 to 14. Naval forces of the United States, Great Britain, France, and the Netherlands compelled Japan and the Prince of Nagato in particular to permit the Straits of Shimonoseki to be used by foreign shipping in accordance with treaties already signed.[RL30172]

1865 -- Panama. - March 9 and 10. US forces protected the lives and property of American residents during a revolution.[RL30172]

1866 -- Mexico. To protect American residents, General Sedgwick and 100 men in November obtained surrender of Matamoros, on the border State of Tamaulipas. After three days he was ordered by US Government to withdraw. His act was repudiated by the President.[RL30172]

1866 -- China. From June 20 to July 7, US forces punished an assault on the American consul at Newchwang.[RL30172]

1867 -- Nicaragua. Marines occupied Managua and Leon.1865-77 -- Post Civil War Reconstruction

1867 -- Formosa (island of Taiwan) - June 13. A naval force landed and burned a number of huts to punish the murder of the crew of a wrecked American vessel.1865-77 -- Post Civil War Reconstruction

1868 -- Japan (Osaka, Hiolo, Nagasaki, Yokohama, and Negata). - February 4 to 8, April 4 to May 12, June 12 and 13. US forces were landed to protect American interests during the civil war in Japan.[RL30172]

1868 -- Uruguay. - February 7 and 8, 19 to 26. US forces protected foreign residents and the customhouse during an insurrection at Montevideo.[RL30172]

1868 -- Colombia. - April. US forces protected passengers and treasure in transit at Aspinwall during the absence of local police or troops on the occasion of the death of the President of Colombia.[RL30172]

 1870-1879

1870 -- Mexico. - June 17 and 18. US forces destroyed the pirate ship Forward, which had been run aground about 40 miles up the Rio Tecapan.[RL30172]

1870 -- Hawaiian Islands. - September 21. US forces placed the American flag at half mast upon the death of Queen Kalama, when the American consul at Honolulu would not assume responsibility for so doing.[RL30172]

1871 -- Korea. Shinmiyangyo Battle in Korea - June 10 to 12. A US naval force attacked and captured five forts to punish natives for depredations on Americans, particularly for murdering the crew of the General Sherman and burning the schooner, and for later firing on other American small boats taking soundings up the Salee River.[RL30172]

1873 -- Colombia (Bay of Panama). - May 7 to 22, September 23 to October 9. U.S. forces protected American interests during hostilities between local groups over control of the government of the State of Panama.[RL30172]

1873-96 -- Mexico. United States troops crossed the Mexican border repeatedly in pursuit of cattle and other thieves and other brigands.[RL30172]

1874 -- Hawaiian Islands. - February 12 to 20. Detachments from American vessels were landed to preserve order and protect American lives and interests during the coronation of a new king.[RL30172]

1876 -- Mexico. - May 18. An American force was landed to police the town of Matamoros, Tamaulipas State, temporarily while it was without other government.[RL30172]

 1880-1889

1882 -- Egypt. - July 14 to 18. American forces landed to protect American interests during warfare between British and Egyptians and looting of the city of Alexandria by Arabs.[RL30172]

1885 -- Panama (Colon). - January 18 and 19. US forces were used to guard the valuables in transit over the Panama Railroad, and the safes and vaults of the company during revolutionary activity. In March, April, and May in the cities of Colon and Panama, the forces helped reestablish freedom of transit during revolutionary activity.[RL30172]

1888 -- Korea. - June. A naval force was sent ashore to protect American residents in Seoul during unsettled political conditions, when an outbreak of the populace was expected.[RL30172]

1888 -- Haiti. - December 20. A display of force persuaded the Haitian Government to give up an American steamer which had been seized on the charge of breach of blockade.[RL30172]

1888-89 -- Samoa. - November 14, 1888, to March 20, 1889. US forces were landed to protect American citizens and the consulate during a native civil war.[RL30172]

1889 -- Hawaiian Islands. - July 30 and 31. US forces protected American interests at Honolulu during a revolution.[RL30172]

 1890-1899

1890 -- Argentina. A naval party landed to protect US consulate and legation in Buenos Aires.[RL30172]

1891 -- Haiti. US forces sought to protect American lives and property on Navassa Island.[RL30172]

1891 -- Bering Strait. - July 2 to October 5. Naval forces sought to stop seal poaching.[RL30172]

1891 -- Chile. - August 28 to 30. US forces protected the American consulate and the women and children who had taken refuge in it during a revolution in Valparaiso.[RL30172]

1893 -- Hawaii. - January 16 to April 1. Marines were landed ostensibly to protect American lives and property, but many believed actually to promote a provisional government under Sanford B. Dole. This action was disavowed by the United States.[RL30172]

1894 -- Brazil. - January. A display of naval force sought to protect American commerce and shipping at Rio de Janeiro during a Brazilian civil war.[RL30172]

1894 -- Nicaragua. - July 6 to August 7. US forces sought to protect American interests at Bluefields following a revolution.[RL30172]

1894-95 -- China. Marines were stationed at Tientsin and penetrated to Peking for protection purposes during the First Sino-Japanese War.[RL30172]

1894-95 -- China. A naval vessel was beached and used as a fort at Newchwang for protection of American nationals.[RL30172]

1894-96 -- Korea. - July 24, 1894 to April 3, 1896. A guard of marines was sent to protect the American legation and American lives and interests at Seoul during and following the Sino-Japanese War.[RL30172]

1895 -- Colombia. - March 8 to 9. US forces protected American interests during an attack on the town of Bocas del Toro by a bandit chieftain.[RL30172]

1895-96 -- Venezuela. - Settlement of boundary dispute.[citation needed]

1896 -- Nicaragua. - May 2 to 4. US forces protected American interests in Corinto during political unrest.[RL30172]

1898 -- Nicaragua. - February 7 and 8. US forces protected American lives and property at San Juan del Sur.[RL30172]

1898 -- Spanish-American War On April 25, 1898, the United States declared war with Spain. The war followed a Cuban insurrection, the Cuban War of Independence against Spanish rule and the sinking of the USS Maine in the harbor at Havana.[RL30172]

1898-99 -- Samoa. Second Samoan Civil War a conflict that reached a head in 1898 when Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States were locked in dispute over who should have control over the Samoan island chain.

1898-99 -- China. - November 5, 1898 to March 15, 1899. US forces provided a guard for the legation at Peking and the consulate at Tientsin during contest between the Dowager Empress and her son.[RL30172]

1899 -- Nicaragua. American and British naval forces were landed to protect national interests at San Juan del Norte, February 22 to March 5, and at Bluefields a few weeks later in connection with the insurrection of Gen. Juan P. Reyes.[RL30172]

1899-1913 -- Philippine Islands. Philippine-American War US forces protected American interests following the war with Spain, defeating rebellious Filipinos seeking immediate national independence.

Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 11:05
Originally posted by Panther

Even though this isn't exactly the way i would have asked the question. However the well thought out views by a few who already contributed, specifically Maharbbal & Constantine, is what i was looking for from a different part of the AE discussion boards:
 
Though my mind is still not made up on what i think about this, some where in between of... yes we are, or no we are not. I get the impression, that this subject is the $100 million dollar question of this century?
 
Not really. I don't think it matters much of a damn whether you or anyone else calls the US an 'empire' or not. The US is what it is, for good or bad: what you classify it as is not a serious point at all.
 
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 11:10
Originally posted by pinguin

Agreed!

The U.S. is more a country that controls others by violence rather than an Empire that control peoples and territories. The U.S. keep invading, killing people by the millions and destroying societies, but they usually don't keep the territories they invade for them. They just left them to bleed alone.
 
The list of invasions and extraterritorial actions of the U.S. are really impresive. Something the world knows, but Americans themselves are not very aware of.
Why would anyone consider you an expert of what Americans (that is, US citizens) know?
 
The very fact that you have produced a list taken from public US sources rather goes against your entire argument.
 
 
Extraterritorial and major domestic deployments

Portions of this list are from the Congressional Research Service report RL30172.[1]

And so?
 
Most of your list is concerned with things like putting down pirates, and seeking retribution or compensation for acts of aggression committed against US citizens, vessels, and property.
 
What's wrong with that?
 
Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 13:48

I think we would have to first ask the question: what is an empire? And then the next question: did the concept of empire evolve over time? I personally believ that the US is an empire, but then again a kind of empire which is quite different from say the Roman empire. Should we look at political institutions as an indication of whether a country is an empire or not? Or maybe at the size of the country? I would say that an empire si characterized by a policy of conquest, expansion and economic exploitation of lands which were not originally part of the original core, and which are inhabited by other people.

Certainly the expansion through the American West, Florida and Alaska is typical imperial behavior, since these lands already had native inhabitants (indians and european colonists such as French and Spanish), and it was acquired through a series of wars, annexations, and buy-outs, followed by settlement. Not all that different from any other empire... During the last half of the 19th century and up to the second world war, the imperial tendencies were even more obvious, as the US started getting involved and acquiring colonies overseas. Puerto Rico, Cuba, the Philippines, Guam, Hawaii, Panama... plus their involvement in the internal affairs of many Latin American countries.

Since then, the US has modified its imperial policy and has cut down costs considerably, by leaving the expensive defense of these overseas colonies in the hands of native governments, while still dominating and exploiting them economically. This is a similar policy to that practiced by Britain and France in their ex-colonies. Really, the concept of the empire itself was redesigned in the last 60 years. 

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818
  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2007 at 17:51
Originally posted by gcle2003

 
Not really. I don't think it matters much of a damn whether you or anyone else calls the US an 'empire' or not. The US is what it is, for good or bad: what you classify it as is not a serious point at all.
 
 
I have to admit, you have pointed out one of the major reasons why i have such a hard time in acceptting it as a reality. I still find it hard to take this all seriously, and yet... from time to time, discussions about it comes and goes. Never really fading away like the rest of the other nonsensical points in the face of reason... i am still a little intrigued in what keeps giving this wings; Especially without the lack of any coherent policy driving it along!
 
Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2007 at 09:00

Why should there be coherent policy driving it along? Is independent thought not allowed without some sort of organization driving it?

Listen, labelling anything opens up the potential for controversy and misrepresentation. This is primarily due to the associations which people form between these labels and historical events, and to the rather skewed understanding that once a label is applied, it excludes other labels. For example, if one is labelled a communist, the abuses of stalinism jump to mind... It matters little if that particular person is an idealist brand of communist who rejects and is horrified by such abuses. Once the label has been applied, the damage to the image has been done.

In the same way, the notion of an empire conjures up certain images of a regressive abusive system. If you would ask a patriotic American if the US is an empire, they would reject it out of hand, because of what they associate with this notion. Yet, US history shares many of the patterns which have characterized states which few would argue are not empires. It also displays other traits and patterns, because most modern states are quite complex. The US, like many other states, has at once the traits of a democracy, an empire, an oligarchy and a republic. Saying that it is an empire does not necessarily deny its democratic side. I certainly don't think that saying that the US is an empire is a "non-sensical point that fades in front of reason", but neither do I think that saying that denies the other aspects and achievements of the country.

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.