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Megaflood 'made Island Britain'

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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Megaflood 'made Island Britain'
    Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 02:12
 
Britain became separated from mainland Europe after a catastrophic flood some time before 200,000 years ago, a sonar study of the English Channel confirms.

The images reveal deep scars on the Channel bed that must have been cut by a sudden, massive discharge of water.

-------------------------------------------------
 
Nature protected Britain from the invasions of Napoleon and Hitler. The last inasion of England was long time ago, in 1066.
 
I suppose this event that happened 200.000 years ago must be one of the most important events in the history of Britannia Wink
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 04:31
Was this flood in conjunction with tectonic earth movements, oh wait this was before the last Ice age, which means Britain was an island, then joined Europe during the Ice Age, then the water level increased and the land rose when the weight of ice receded...Mainland-Island-mainland-Island... Maybe we shouldn't be so worried about temperature change after all, if its been happening throughout history!
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 04:49
The difference is that our current temperature  change is a result of us - not natural occurances that take hundreds of thousands of years to materialise. Apes and Dinosoars did not contribute to aggregate temperature increases so far as I am aware....
 
Could this be when Noah saved the human race and all the animals from extinction?
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 05:51
Originally posted by Parnell

The difference is that our current temperature  change is a result of us - not natural occurances that take hundreds of thousands of years to materialise. Apes and Dinosoars did not contribute to aggregate temperature increases so far as I am aware....
 
Could this be when Noah saved the human race and all the animals from extinction?
 
 
 
They should call you 'Predictable' not Parnell, that's just a bog standard response that doesn't even mean anything any more. The trend towards global warming started hundreds of years before the Industrial Revolution, before that the human impact in terms of methane, co2, carbon monoxide and sulphur dioxide was negligable. Our current behaviour has added to the trend, but has not caused it, that is a fact.
 
And another thing, are you going to stop putting your dirty dishes in a dishwasher, are you going to wash your clothes by hand, are you going to stop using cars and public transport, are you going to change your life in any sighnificant way as a result of this global warming 'disaster'..? No, simple as.
 
And another thing, we all bang on about how we, as some sort of abstract faceless entity, the human race are to blame for global warming, but the onus never seems to be placed individually. 'Ah sure the weather's been changing, there's definitely something astray in the world..Sure we're causing this malarchy', while driving a car, eating a mars bar, wearing nike, using our mobile phones (the use of which are causing severe deforestation for component parts), heading to our overlit workplace that never plugs out its appliances, I can go on. There is just too much mantracised talk about how the world's changing and how we caused it, but i'm not going to feel guilty for watching televsion just because i'm adding 0.000000000000000000000001%, if that, onto an already present trend. As individuals we are simply not going to halt this trend, we can only ever as a collective unit hope to slow it down.
 
This massive environmental guilt trip that we are all being subjected to is plain bull, all it has become is another marketing strategy and vote puller. Show me something real, like renewable energy, and i'll endorse it, but tell me that stopping burning small fires in my back garden is going to make the slightest bit of difference and i'll stop listening.
 
So enough of this rubbish about how we caused global warming, it stinks of hypocricy. And dinosaurs did add to the global aggregate temperatures, they deficated didn't they? Methane, Parnell, methane
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 06:05
Wo wo wo...calm down. Give Parnell a bit of a break. Unhappy
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 06:25
Discussed..
 
He doesn't need a break he needs a clip round the ear  LOL
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 06:42

Britain became separated from mainland Europe after a catastrophic flood some time before 200,000 years ago, a sonar study of the English Channel confirms.

I read carefully through the evidence. I found it confusing about what it was trying to say and nowhere near the usual BBC standard of scientific reporting. That a hypothetical lake caused such a huge flood is beyond belief. I would say to produce evidence of this mystical lake before producing the secondary evidence of flooding which could have been caused by other factors. Then the article does not mention core samples. For all the millions of core samples taken in the area one could produce a pattern that shows whether it was fresh of salt water that first flowed through. This technique is well known.

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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 06:45
 
 
They should call you 'Predictable' not Parnell, that's just a bog standard response that doesn't even mean anything any more.
 
Chill outConfused
 
 
The trend towards global warming started hundreds of years before the Industrial Revolution, before that the human impact in terms of methane, co2, carbon monoxide and sulphur dioxide was negligable.
 
The mini Ice Age that gripped the Medieval Era was tiny compared to the warming since then. Take a look at this:
 
 
It clearly demonstrates that increased carbon dioxide has increased the amount of ice melted. There is evidence that says temperature would have increased anyway, but never to this extent. Surely you don't deny this?
 
Our current behaviour has added to the trend, but has not caused it, that is a fact.
 
That is self serving rubbish. It would have rised very slightly risen as a result of the little ice age:
 
 
 
And another thing, are you going to stop putting your dirty dishes in a dishwasher, are you going to wash your clothes by hand, are you going to stop using cars and public transport, are you going to change your life in any sighnificant way as a result of this global warming 'disaster'..? No, simple as.
 
What has that got to do with anything? You seem to be arguing, and I could be wrong (You are ridiculously vague after all sometimes) that the thought of all that we would have to do to combat Global Warming  is too much - so its easier to think its not a reality. Its the same as someone believing in God because they are afraid that there mightn't be an afterlife. Its stupid.
 
And another thing, we all bang on about how we, as some sort of abstract faceless entity, the human race are to blame for global warming, but the onus never seems to be placed individually. 'Ah sure the weather's been changing, there's definitely something astray in the world..Sure we're causing this malarchy', while driving a car, eating a mars bar, wearing nike, using our mobile phones (the use of which are causing severe deforestation for component parts), heading to our overlit workplace that never plugs out its appliances, I can go on. There is just too much mantracised talk about how the world's changing and how we caused it, but i'm not going to feel guilty for watching televsion just because i'm adding 0.000000000000000000000001%, if that, onto an already present trend. As individuals we are simply not going to halt this trend, we can only ever as a collective unit hope to slow it down.
 
There are plenty of things we can do: Renkewables such as the CSP for one thing. 
 
So enough of this rubbish about how we caused global warming, it stinks of hypocricy. And dinosaurs did add to the global aggregate temperatures, they deficated didn't they? Methane, Parnell, methane
 
You haven't offered any proof that we haven't only that you say so! And you have the audacity to say you wiped the floor with me? Your acting like an idiot Emmet its not like you
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 07:10
 
 
 
Chill outConfused
 
 
Just feel strongly about it, have to solicit a response.
 
 
 
 The mini Ice Age that gripped the Medieval Era was tiny compared to the warming since then. Take a look at this:
 
 
It clearly demonstrates that increased carbon dioxide has increased the amount of ice melted. There is evidence that says temperature would have increased anyway, but never to this extent. Surely you don't deny this?
 
 
 
There has been an upward thrend since the middle ages, long before the industrial revolution, so our behaviour is contributory to the trend, it is not all our fault. Simple as that we do not have to take complete responsibility. In fact, fossil records have shown numerous dramatic increase in global temperatures, paired with subsequent falls. It is only in our constrained notions about timescale that we think this wont happen again. We are a drop in a stream in the ocean of time and such changes will happen again, whether we add to it or not.
 
 
 
 
That is self serving rubbish. It would have rised very slightly risen as a result of the little ice age:
 
 
 
 
Whats this got to do with anything?
 
 
 
 What has that got to do with anything? You seem to be arguing, and I could be wrong (You are ridiculously vague after all sometimes) that the thought of all that we would have to do to combat Global Warming  is too much - so its easier to think its not a reality. Its the same as someone believing in God because they are afraid that there mightn't be an afterlife. Its stupid.
 
 
Wrong. The point I was making, although being vague and obviously not up to your acedemic standards, was that to often people preach about our problems and the solutions, but the practising is left to someone else. It easy to say ' we caused global warming'. Oh, what an opinion. It just doesn't mean anything anymore. I am absolutely not shirking the issue and saying it doesn't exist, i'm just not going to jump onto a self righteous bandwagon of 'we recognise the problem and tell the ignorant masses about it' people. I know my habits aren't going to change, so I wont tell anybody else's to either.
 
 
There are plenty of things we can do: Renkewables such as the CSP for one thing. 
 
 
Concentrated solar power is thoroughly over-rated. If it was so wonderful, why has it not been implemented? Too much politics, Parnell just like the rest of this global issue. People won't change unless it is personally beneficial to them, that is human nature, so giving the middle-east more power is not exactly a popular idea. What about loss of voltage? Distance?
 
 
 
[quote]You haven't offered any proof that we haven't only that you say so! And you have the audacity to say you wiped the floor with me? Your acting like an idiot Emmet its not like you
 
 
Your last point that quoted my last doesn't address it. Why? I may act an idiot, but i'm still right, even if I am so ridiculously vague that it doesn't match the usual 'I just read this and now I'll tell people like its my idea' rubbish.
 
Just my opinion, of course
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 07:31
What are you right about? You cannot have an opinion on something (Especially something scientific) if your not informed. Believing otherwise is being MORONIC. You have offered no proof for any of your assertions, and you have the arrogance to say that you are right! Global warming isn't an idea... Keep your cliches for the elitist psychology/philosophy crap - this is real stuff, with real issues with a real science if not properly adressed will have us all in bother.
 
 
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 07:32
There has been an upward thrend since the middle ages, long before the industrial revolution, so our behaviour is contributory to the trend, it is not all our fault. Simple as that we do not have to take complete responsibility. In fact, fossil records have shown numerous dramatic increase in global temperatures, paired with subsequent falls. It is only in our constrained notions about timescale that we think this wont happen again. We are a drop in a stream in the ocean of time and such changes will happen again, whether we add to it or not.
 
Its happens usually in geological time, which implies hundreds of thousands of years. In this case, Global warming, its happening in hundreds of years. Really, cop on FFS.
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 07:51
Who's being arrogant now?
 
Ok so i'm moronic and ridiculously vague and arrogant and cliched, and you think that to put this in your post is to make your point more valid? Thats just silly, you can't bang on about facts and references if you use personal insults to further your point. In fact, it totally discredits it. That is why you cant try to patronise or correct me, as you fail to meet even your own standards.
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 08:04

Global warming is happening in hundreds of years, says who? How do we know how long it will take? The biggest supercomputer in the world cannot predict that with any accuracy so its just guesswork, we simply don't know. There are glaciers growing in New Zealand. Why is that? Does it refute global warming? Of course not. But what it does do is prove that not everything is black and white in nature, science, of interpretation of data, or of the accepted role we have in all this.

And I can offer proof, just like you can, because I read books, I read the paper, I browse the internet, I keep informed. This is not a knowledge issue, it is an interpretive one, meaning that no matter how much facts you put on the table, others can be sourced to refute them. Simply, none is right or wrong, but some are harder to prove than others, such as global warming. This is an abstract, media created term that does not specify the true insinuations behind its catching exterior. Its not like the exoskeleton of invertebrates containing chitin, or the amount of bones we have in our hand, this issue by its nature is vague, and no matter how many sources you forward to back your point, it will not be proven beyond doubt. Yeah, the world is changing, and quickly, and yeah the people are changing too, and very slowly. Does this equal the end of civilisation as we know it? Maybe, but we've only been here for a blink anyway, so what ya goina do? I aint goina start losing sleep about how i'm killing the world, because the world is going to live on, it is just our present array of organisms that won't. It's just a matter of time. We may make it quicker, yeah, but what's a blink in a day of time? 

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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 08:05
I was just messing around really Kinsella, didn't mean to annoy you or anything - but my point is that you cannot possibly point the finger at me for using someone elses opinion to back up my own as being stupid - I don't claim to be a Climate scientist, and neither can you. My 'opinion' on a scientific matter is irrelevant, as is yours. Which is why we have to argue facts on issues like Global warming, not our 'opinions'
 
Is that any clearer??
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 08:09
Whoa! Seems I'm missing out on a good stoush here. And here's me sitting with the TV on with a program about global warming!
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 08:15
Whats a 'stoush'???
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 08:42
I forgot that was just an Australian term! I try not to use them. It means a fight, come to blows,  a dispute, a heated argument, no idea of the origin. 
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 11:18
No worries Denbomb, arguments are what get me up in the morning. Seriously.
 
We would call a stoush a 'bit a banter' in were we come from, but not if it came to blows. Its a northern Ireland term but sure I'm right on the border anyway so have a mix of the cultures. Me and Parnell both hail from a small county called Monaghan, on the border of Northern Ireland. It the light blue county near the top.
 
 
I just always wanted to put that map up..
 
 
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 12:01
And see that little bit that eats into the north, we are at nearly the very northern part of that.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 19:23
Originally posted by elenos

Britain became separated from mainland Europe after a catastrophic flood some time before 200,000 years ago, a sonar study of the English Channel confirms.

I read carefully through the evidence. I found it confusing about what it was trying to say and nowhere near the usual BBC standard of scientific reporting. That a hypothetical lake caused such a huge flood is beyond belief. I would say to produce evidence of this mystical lake before producing the secondary evidence of flooding which could have been caused by other factors. Then the article does not mention core samples. For all the millions of core samples taken in the area one could produce a pattern that shows whether it was fresh of salt water that first flowed through. This technique is well known.

 
 
Beyond belief?  This is from a publication by The Earth Institute At Columbia U.
 

Around 15,000 years ago, the Earth started warming abruptly after ~ 100,000 years of an "ice age"; this is known as a glacial termination. The large ice sheets, which covered significant parts of North America and Europe, began melting as a result. A climatic optimum known as the "Blling-Allerd" was reached shortly thereafter, around 14,700 before present. However, starting at about 12,800 BP, the Earth returned very quickly into near glacial conditions (i.e. cold, dry and windy), and stayed there for about 1,200 years: this is known as the Younger Dryas (YD), since it is the most recent interval where a plant characteristic of cold climates, Dryas Octopetala, was found in Scandinavia.

The most spectacular aspect of the YD is that it ended extremely abruptly (around 11,600 years ago), and although the date cannot be known exactly, it is estimated from the annually-banded Greenland ice-core that the annual-mean temperature increased by as much as 10C in 10 years.



Why was there a Younger Dryas?

This is a touchy subject that is currently the focus of much research. One explanation is the one involving a thermohaline circulation (THC) shutdown, triggered by a catastrophic discharge of freshwater from Lake Agassiz (figure 2). The consequence is a rapid reduction in northward ocean heat transports, leading to an abrupt cooling over Northern Europe and North America. That is why so much attention is focused on the behavior of the North Atlantic ocean circulation: not only by scientists, but also Hollywood screenplay writers. Bear in mind, however, that the greenhouse world we are creating through fossil fuel burning might not behave at all like the Earth of 12,800 years ago, so that this scenario may be irrelevant for future climate change.

Lake%20Agassi

Figure 2: (Left) The outline of Lake Agassiz just before the catastrophic flood. At that time its outlet was to the south into the Mississippi drainage. (Right) The outline after the opening of the eastward outlet. A volume of 9500 cubic kilometers of water was suddenly released to the northern Atlantic through the St. Lawrence Valley (Leverington et al. 2000). (Source: Broecker, 2003)

A problem with this hypothesis is the timing of meltwater pulses that are supposed to have triggered the THC shutdown: it was found that a second meltwater pulse, albeit slightly smaller than the first one, occurred at the end of the YD (Fairbanks, 1989): why didn't it also trigger a similar chain of consequences in the climate system?

An alternate explanation (Clement et al., 2001) invokes the abrupt cessation in the El Nino -Southern Oscillation in response to changes in the orbital parameters of the Earth, although how such a change would impact regions away from the Tropics remains to be explained.

The respective merits of both hypotheses have been laid out by Broecker (2003). The issue is far from being settled, and actively researched at Lamont and elsewhere.

Were there any other events like this one?

There are many other examples of abrupt climate change in the last 50,000 years, which bear the rather cryptic names of Heinrich, and Dansgaard/Oeschger events.

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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