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Topic ClosedWerer the Egyptians white or black?

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Poll Question: well?
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Werer the Egyptians white or black?
    Posted: 08-Jul-2007 at 23:46
As the question stated, were they white or black? I'm very critical and upset of this dispute, that afrocentrics are trying to rewrite history. But if they are wrong.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 01:26

Wherever they are they are now probably green; sick of such stupid discussions.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 02:09
Originally posted by Sparten

Wherever they are they are now probably green; sick of such stupid discussions.

 
LOLClap
 
Egyptians are probably very similar pheotypically to how they were in the Kingdoms. You would get a concentration of some Greek, Roman and Arab genetics in some of the Delta cities, but overall they would be a brownish colour like they were back in ancient times.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 08:14
This poll is not right for there is no other answer than to say black or white. So far as I know it was never like that. The Egyptians were mixed in appearance for they took in an array of very early tribes that came together to make the nation. On the whole they may have had, as suggested, a brownish appearance with black straight hair. The Egyptians had settlements in Nubia, which were of course negro, but further North were tribes that looked Mediterranean. Then one must remember they became an Empire that took in other nations. Then they  did a lively trade with Europe for instance in livestock and other goods like amber.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 08:20

If you go by the colour spectrum no one would have had a hue comprised of all colours, or on the absence of all light. Various shades or brown more like it.

 
The dischotomy black-white is poorly designed to handle the ancient Egyptians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 09:06
Good one Joinville. No one person could be of a mixed hue!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 10:16
Originally posted by Joinville

 
The dischotomy black-white is poorly designed to handle the ancient Egyptians.
 
Or anyone else.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 14:19

There was a dynasty in the middle kingdom that were Meroe (Nubian) and were completely black. They looked like someone from Southern Sudan or Chad might look, so that's one slight indication of a different skin tone. Also, there is archeological evidence of a Syrian invasion earlier on in the kingdom in one of the earlier intermediate periods by the presense of large amounts of non-imported Syrian pottery and beads on a VAST scale. The legendry W.B.Emery had done some research into this, and it seems possible, but we have no historic evidence to suggest that. That would suggest perhaps a lighter skin tone being introduced.

...But overall, the Egyptians would have looked as north Africans would have looked today. What's the point of this discussion? Everyone knows the answer. The mummies of Rameses II, the Thothmosids and Tutankhamun were all Caucasian. No offense, asdfghjkl- but I agree with Sparten- this is a little pointless.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 18:19
That's an interesting point about the mummies. The Egyptians were invaded by the Indo-European Hyksos and others from the north. In time they were overthrown and driven out. However there is no evidence to say introduced Royal families were purged. Many of those born of immigrant descent soon became patriots of their country, the same way as people do today.    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 18:37
Black white green purple or blue,  They were African, regardless.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 18:37
Originally posted by Joinville

If you go by the colour spectrum no one would have had a hue comprised of all colours, or on the absence of all light. Various shades or brown more like it.

 
The dischotomy black-white is poorly designed to handle the ancient Egyptians.
 
Well said,
 
 
Has anyone ever been to Egypt? Or even googled a picture of a modern Egyptian. They're not white or black, they're brown.
 
Egyptians,%20Canaanites,%20Nubians%20and%20Lybians%20on%20fresco%20in%20tomb%20of%20Seit.%20c.%201300%20BC.%20The%20sons%20of%20Ham:%20Cush%20%28Nubians%29,%20Egypt,%20Put%20%28Lybians%29,%20and%20Canaan..%20%28Gen.10:6%29.
Egyptian, Caanites, Nubians, Libyans.
 
Egyptian surely weren't black(Nubians) in their own eyes. They seem to suggest Libyans were white, and they clearly don't see themselves as white either.
 


Edited by Paul - 16-Jul-2007 at 18:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 19:32
Those pictures prove the native (brown) Egyptians accepted other races and saw nothing strange about other skin colors among their families. The skin color issue may be pointless, but the treatment and acceptance of other races among them is an issue, like in countries all over the world today. Why spend millions on faculties of black history in America  or Asian studies in Australia? It may not not for the historian to ask the skin color but we are the ones who are expected to trace things like migration of races back in time and give fair and impartial answers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 20:50
Originally posted by red clay

Black white green purple or blue, They were African, regardless.


They weren't Africans, they were Egyptians. I say this because we know that they classified themselves as such however the idea of referring to a people as being African, European, Asian, American (I don't mean a US citizen but merely somebody who lives in the Americas) is anachronistic. The Egyptians would not have seen themselves as the same as or closely akin to people like the Zulu or Kush.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 21:17
Originally posted by King John

They weren't Africans, they were Egyptians. I say this because we know that they classified themselves as such however the idea of referring to a people as being African, European, Asian, American (I don't mean a US citizen but merely somebody who lives in the Americas) is anachronistic. The Egyptians would not have seen themselves as the same as or closely akin to people like the Zulu or Kush.


Interesting point, but somewhat confusing for geography purposes. Canada is not America. However Canada is in North America. Egypt is not Africa, but Egypt is in North Africa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 21:33
Geographically they are African.  What they classified themselves as is no longer relevant.  As for anachronistic, your opinion only.  Thats like saying French aren't European or Brazilians aren't South American.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 00:28
Red Clay, now that rings a bell. I think the Egyptian religion was the first to state man was made out of clay. Could their belief in a grey formative material of mankind show they had a neutral attitude towards skin colour?

Edited by elenos - 17-Jul-2007 at 00:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 21:43
Originally posted by red clay

Geographically they are African. What they classified themselves as is no longer relevant. As for anachronistic,your opinion only. Thats like saying French aren't European or Brazilians aren't South American.

What they classfied themselves to be is exceptionally relevant, if one wants an historial (non-anachronistic, non-reductionistic) understanding of the ancient Egyptians themselves.
From that kind of historical POV, how we today classify people (ethnicity, geography, "race", whatever) is entirely irrelevant.

The difference between classifying the ancient Egyptians as "Africans" and the French as "Europeans" is that if presented with this classification of them, the French would shine up and declare "Mais oui!", but the ancient Egyptians would simply look puzzeld and say "Huh?"

Unless one subscribes to some form of realist theory of historiography whereby somehow modern geographical and etnicity concepts contain a higher degree of truth than those of the ancient Egyptians by force of being more recent, more scientific, etc.
Than it's a conflict between humanist historical relativism and anti-humanist anhistorial realism, the kind the sciences traditionally represent.

Edited by Joinville - 17-Jul-2007 at 21:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 01:40

There was a dynasty in the middle kingdom that were Meroe (Nubian) and were completely black. They looked like someone from Southern Sudan or Chad might look, so that's one slight indication of a different skin tone. Also, there is archeological evidence of a Syrian invasion earlier on in the kingdom in one of the earlier intermediate periods by the presense of large amounts of non-imported Syrian pottery and beads on a VAST scale. The legendry W.B.Emery had done some research into this, and it seems possible, but we have no historic evidence to suggest that. That would suggest perhaps a lighter skin tone being introduced.


And don't forget (don't know if this counts as "ancient" enough) but that Cleopatra the most famous egyptian, was herself the product of a couple of hundred years of Greek inbreeding.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 01:50

It is convinient to classify people by modern definations; for us. The problem is when those definations confuse the general populace. A few years ago in the states, I nearky came to blows with a black gentleman (and I use the latter word advisedly) since he insisted that since Cleopatra was an Egyptian Queen, and Egypt was in Africa, well Africa= Black.

 
What is sad about such discussions is the clear lack of knowledge of black African culture. The Mali Empires, Ghanain Empires etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 02:27
Even the name Cleo=daughter, patra=(greek)father is a give away. Many awful mistakes are made here, for in her time Egypt looked and dressed like a Greek colony. The land been settled long before by the Greek general Ptolemy who served under Alexander. So far as I know they were patriotic towards their adapted country, but am willing to be corrected.

She had been forced to marry her younger brother and shed no tears when lover Caesar had the spoiled little nerd drowned. His death was said to be a boating accident but nobody believed it.
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