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Topic ClosedThe Albanian Dilema
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Albanian Dilema
    Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 11:15
Originally posted by Magedon

Nevermind, youll never have the luck to hear my wisdom here again

Leonidas - are you a Spartan maybe?Do you perform eugenicide in your family circles??I bet you proud urself with the movie 300 ???I know your not.So how can you be a greek??

I was so rude with akritas bcs we have our konflikt from long time ago - i would ceartinly have not discussed in such a way with any other member of the forum.

You see the splink in my eye while not noticin the timber in your two eyes!!!

Leonidas (i presume you are a greek) - would you not be angered and ready to start shooting kallashnikofs if lets say Turkey is doing to Greece what Greece is doing to Macedonia???You managed to inflict more pain,torture and suffering on the Macedonian ppl in 80 years than the turks managed to do in 500 yrs!!!Do you really think that i dont have the right to be pissed of at you guys??

And what about all the sources i provided with wich i prooved my position as for the albanian question of toponims and for the Slavic presence in the balkans since antiquity?I may did it in a rude way - but whats important is that i prooved everything i said with neutral sources! - but you only see the bad things cos the truth and the good things scare the sht out of you.
sources, is one thing your broke all these other rules on the way. such a shame, you could of flown the FYROM flag high but you couldnt help but insult and act like a tool.

Originally posted by Magedon


Leonidas, pls ban me, i dont have the time to cancel my account....

ok banned
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akritas View Drop Down
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Hegemom

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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 12:34
Florin Curta mention as about the issue...
 
Slavic was also used as a lingua franca in Bulgaria, particularly after the conversion to Christianity in 865. It is only the association with this political development that brought Slavic into closer contact with other languages. This explains why, despite the presumed presence of Slavicspeaking communities in the Balkans at a relatively early date, the influence of Common Slavic on the non-Slavic languages of the areaRomanian,  Albanian, and Greekis minimal and far less significant than that of Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, and Macedonian. The absence of a significant influence of Common Slavic in the Balkans is also evident from the small number of Balkan place names of Slavic origin, which could be dated on phonetical grounds, with any degree of certainty, before c. 800.
[The making of the Slavs, pages 345-346]
 
 
In my opinion we must go backwards in the time  to see the origin of the Albanian placenames. Great example is the Greek city of  Edessa.  The Slavic form of the Greek Edessa is the Vodena. Albanian members we can give a help as about this.


Edited by akritas - 03-Jun-2007 at 12:37
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Anton View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 13:43
According to many historians and archeologists including Gimbutas, Sedlar, and Jirecek slavs extensivelly adsorbed local population. This is also supported by genetical research showing that Macedonians are close to southern Slavs, Greeks and Romanians but not other Slavonic nations. So, present day Macedonians have much to do with Ancient Macedonians. Much more than some Greek nationalists would like them to have.
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akritas View Drop Down
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Hegemom

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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 13:49
Originally posted by Anton

According to many historians and archeologists including Gimbutas, Sedlar, and Jirecek slavs extensivelly adsorbed local population. This is also supported by genetical research showing that Macedonians are close to southern Slavs, Greeks and Romanians but not other Slavonic nations. So, present day Macedonians have much to do with Ancient Macedonians. Much more than some Greek nationalists would like them to have.
Propably you agree with the professor Tome Boshevski (Brainwashevski) in
 
 
After five Macedonian-Roman war s fought in the second century BC with Philip V and his son Perseus, a large number of Macedonians including most of the elite and ruling class, fled Macedonia and headed north away from the conflict.
Fearing a slaughter from the Roman armies descending on Macedonia from the south, from Peloponnesus, they fled the Balkans and resettled north as far as Siberia.
No people leave their homes voluntarily on masse unless they are coerced.
This massive evacuation was certainly coerced by the violent Roman invasion which accounted for about half of Macedonia's population leaving Macedonia.
The other half still remained and lived on Macedonian territory.
 
 
 
and after 800 years the Sibero-Macedonians met the Roma-Makedonians
  and we have the today MakedontsisClap


Edited by akritas - 03-Jun-2007 at 13:51
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Anton View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 13:58
You font style looks like the ones in nationalistic sites -- many font sizes, colours, bold, italic... It is boring and difficult to read. Your opponents are intelligent enough to understand the text without such extensive help. I do not agree with Boshevski, but agree with Jirecek and Gimbutas.
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akritas View Drop Down
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Hegemom

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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:02
Originally posted by Anton

You font style looks like the ones in nationalistic sites -- many font sizes, colours, bold, italic... It is boring and difficult to read. Your opponents are intelligent enough to understand the text without such extensive help. I do not agree with Boshevski, but agree with Jirecek and Gimbutas.
You have problem to read Boshevski  but  you disagree with Boshevski. Ouch
And can you tell us what Jirecek and Gimbutas said as about your claim ?The Slavs (and Avars) absorbed the ancient Macedonians ?


Edited by akritas - 03-Jun-2007 at 14:05
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Anton View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:25
Because I read your post anyway.
 
Jirecek have special chapter in his book about relationship of Slavs with local tribes. He speaks about connection between ancient ethnonyms and present one (shops-sapei, skirtoni-nakolci, peoni-pianci), some Ancient names like Dardan and Dardana in modern slavonic Macedonia (found in Miladinovi brothers),  tales about Tzar Trajan among southern Slavs. Then he speaks about similarities between grammatics in modern Vlachs, Greeks ans southern Slavs in contrast to  other Slavs which can be only as a result of common ancestors.
"Those features of the languages are neither from Greek, Latin or Slavonic. Only in Albanian they seem not to be borrowed. [...]. We make a conclusion that ancient Thrako-Illyrian is a base for this grammatical features".
 
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Hegemom

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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:35
Originally posted by Anton

Because I read your post anyway.
 
Jirecek have special chapter in his book about relationship of Slavs with local tribes. He speaks about connection between ancient ethnonyms and present one (shops-sapei, skirtoni-nakolci, peoni-pianci), some Ancient names like Dardan and Dardana in modern slavonic Macedonia (found in Miladinovi brothers),  tales about Tzar Trajan among southern Slavs. Then he speaks about similarities between grammatics in modern Vlachs, Greeks ans southern Slavs in contrast to  other Slavs which can be only as a result of common ancestors.
"Those features of the languages are neither from Greek, Latin or Slavonic. Only in Albanian they seem not to be borrowed. [...]. We make a conclusion that ancient Thrako-Illyrian is a base for this grammatical features".
 
 
Below is the Jirecek Line.
 
 
 
 
Jirecek spoke for languages until 4th cent AD. So according him Greek speakers was the majority during the invasions. As I know he wrote book of kind  ...The history of the Serbians or Bulgarians.
 
Where mention that Slavs absorbed not Greeks in Macedonia region ?
 


Edited by akritas - 03-Jun-2007 at 14:40
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Anton View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:40
Yes, I forgot to mention that he believes that local population was Romanazed and Hellenized at the time of arrivals of Slavs apart of possible remains in some mountains.
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 16:46
Originally posted by Istor the Macedonian

"So, present day Macedonians have much to do with Ancient Macedonians"

Blood and DNA are NOT related to ethnicity. At least within a race(color). If any one denies this then he could say to FYROM leaders to allow us Greeks controlling their education system.
 
Present day Makedonci have a lot of the culture of the ancient ones. Exactly as Greek have.
 
 
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Istor the Macedonian View Drop Down
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Posts: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 16:56
Culture ?? Like Germans, English, Italians, ...

What kind?

The one that could be shared amongst different ethniities or not?

I mean dances, songs, ....have no borders between ethnicities.

But Language? names, toponyms, heroes, pride of the same things ..... are the real borders of ethnic groups.

If a people is ashamed of that campaign could they be Macedonian?

Edited by Istor the Macedonian - 03-Jun-2007 at 17:01
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek!
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Posts: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 17:18
Exactly as Greeks?

hahahahahahahahahaha !!

Names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, dialect and of course pride of that campaign that Macedonians did to spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World.

let alone the time we spend to learn ancient Greek thoughts !!
Let alone the continuity of our Language !!
Istor
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konstantinius View Drop Down
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Posts: 762 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 19:09
Is that idiot "Magedon" banned already? I jumped on the thread late and don't want to waste time answering him, if he's already out.
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 22:58
yes he is banned and was never worth the time
 
some posts are hidden to protect the thread and make sure no one else needs to read such rubbish. so apologies for any disconnecting discussions between him and Akritas,
 
Please continue, but lets keep it civil.

edit:and this is not about FYROM (FYROM related posts have now, also been hidden)


Edited by Leonidas - 04-Jun-2007 at 05:35
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Arbr Z View Drop Down
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Posts: 598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 04:31
Why is this thread soooo sick?

Regarding the Albanian placenames, there are plenty of them with a latin origin, turkish, greek, slavic, but also many others with an autochthonous origin.

They just show that this are was under different influences, we do not have any reason to be afraid from our history.
Prej heshtjes...!
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Istor the Macedonian View Drop Down
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Posts: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 07:02
language is the main barrier between ethnicities.

http://www.starkrealities.com/fortune.html
read paragraph 5.

But a Macedonian shall have, use and respect Macedonian names and toponyms, right? So, what should a Macedonian say: Solun or Thessaloniki?

would be easy for you Albanians to use Greek place names? Why Korce and not Korytsa or Girokastr and not Argyrokastron?
Istor
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Istor the Macedonian View Drop Down
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Posts: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 07:08
What is that pending approval in my post above?

Who is asking for it, about what exactly?

I consider my words in that post as self-evident!
Istor
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Posts: 1813 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 07:47
Originally posted by Arbr Z

Why is this thread soooo sick?

Regarding the Albanian placenames, there are plenty of them with a latin origin, turkish, greek, slavic, but also many others with an autochthonous origin.

 
I agree. Remember that some ancient place names are those who connect your language with the Illyrians.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
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chicagogeorge View Drop Down
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Posts: 207 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 11:44
I've read that there might be a historical connection between Albanians and people from the Caucauses
 
Just a few, of the many identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
 

Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea)
Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish")
Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura")
Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini
Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian
Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani
Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti
Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri
Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda
Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekoul
 
To the Albanian speakers on this forum.  Can anyone substantiate these correlations?
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GoldenBlood View Drop Down
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Posts: 130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 15:52
chicagogeorge you serb? :D of course you can't find link or scholar because...

those are joke words that writet one serbian member in balcan forum, those words are not common in caucasus hehehe.

and half of words are not albanian, this is just funny write about serbian member.

Albanian language seem only indo-european language that have not caucasus words influence, slavic language have alot influence.
Kosova dhe Ilirida, pjese te Dardanise
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