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Constantine XI
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Topic: Battle at Kosovo Polje/Kosovo Field; 1389 Posted: 24-May-2007 at 02:07 |
miki please translate anything you post into English. This is an
English speaking forum and English is the common language of
communication used here.
I liken Kosovo to the Battle for Gallipoli in 1915. Although it ended
in defeat for both enemies of the Ottomans, to those who fought there
it was crucial in forming a national identity.
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Krum
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Posted: 24-May-2007 at 03:56 |
I can understand.I think it is from the serbian version of Wikipedia.Next time post it in English.
The defeat of Kosovo pole was very improtant for serbs.If serbs after all won that battle it could be crucial for the ottoman expansion or it could happen as Plochnik.The battle of Kosovo pole doomed bulgarians,serbians and even greeks.It is known that Tsar Joan Shishman refused to send bulgarian forces against serbs and that was a reason for Bayazid to attack Bulgaria and conquered it in the end.
Edited by Krum - 24-May-2007 at 04:02
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kurt
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 07:24 |
though some questions i asked previously remain unanswered, i have some more questions for you. why is the battle known as the battle of kosovo polje? where does that last term 'polje' come from? is it a slavic word? what does it mean?
the question i'm most interested in, is: how did the battle progress? what tactics did they employ? what exactly happened on the field? from what i've read after the battle both sides were claiming victory, so i'm suspecting
there isn't too much information on this.
Edited by kurt - 25-May-2007 at 09:10
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Krum
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 09:00 |
Polje = Pole = Field
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Krum
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 09:02 |
Originally posted by kurt
boy, your nationalistic jargon sure is typical. bulgaria, greece and serbs were ... doomed? from what i gather, they're still here today, in spite of four hundred years of subjugation. it's almost as if ottoman rule wasn't as devastating as balkan nationalists like to claim. conquered, yes, doomed, no. i suggest you research something called the millet system.
though some questions i asked previously remain unanswered, i have some more questions for you. why is the battle known as the battle of kosovo polje? where does that last term 'polje' come from? is it a slavic word? what does it mean?
the question i'm most interested in, is: how did the battle progress? what tactics did they employ? what exactly happened on the field? from what i've read after the battle both sides were claiming victory, so i'msuspecting
there isn't too much information on this. |
Saying doomed i meant that they were doomed to be conquered not to be exterminated.
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kurt
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 09:17 |
ah ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. i'm deleting that section of my that post.
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miki015
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 18:34 |
Why
the Scots untill nowdays honours William Wallace?Take a little surf
trough the net and you will find out why we still honoured Milos ...
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 18:55 |
Originally posted by miki015
Why the Scots untill nowdays honours William Wallace?Take a little surf trough the net and you will find out why we still honoured Milos ... |
I can understand why Serbs like Milos so much, but those two have a totally different story..One was a great leader,soldier and a freedom fighter while the other one has on famous for killing the leader of the opposite side in a battle
Edited by Kapikulu - 25-May-2007 at 18:56
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miki015
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 19:17 |
Originally posted by Kapikulu
Originally posted by miki015
Why
the Scots untill nowdays honours William Wallace?Take a little surf
trough the net and you will find out why we still honoured Milos ... |
I can understand why Serbs like Milos so much, but those two have
a totally different story..One was a great leader,soldier and a
freedom fighter while the other one has on famous for killing
the leader of the opposite side in a battle |
Kapikulu,it depends from wich side you are loking to the point...Milosh
has done a heroic thing,something that no one has done before him...
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miki015
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 19:21 |
Originally posted by Kapikulu
Originally posted by miki015
Why
the Scots untill nowdays honours William Wallace?Take a little surf
trough the net and you will find out why we still honoured Milos ... |
I can understand why Serbs like Milos so much, but those two have
a totally different story..One was a great leader,soldier and a
freedom fighter while the other one has on famous for killing
the leader of the opposite side in a battle |
Milosh was our William Wallace...period.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 19:45 |
I would have thought that Lazar would be the Serbian equivilent of
William Wallace. Certainly, he lost, but in terms of putting up an
heroic fight there is plenty of comparison.
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the_oz
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Posted: 26-May-2007 at 12:55 |
Originally posted by miki015
Milosh was our William Wallace...period.
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ok,Sultan Murad is our William Wallace too.
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Zagros
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Posted: 26-May-2007 at 13:38 |
I think Timur e Leng's army was stronger than Osmanli.
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konstantinius
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Posted: 26-May-2007 at 19:37 |
Originally posted by the_oz
Originally posted by miki015
Milosh was our William Wallace...period.
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ok,Sultan Murad is our William Wallace too.
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No. It's Kemal.
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 27-May-2007 at 11:08 |
Well, nobody is William Wallace but himself, stay in the topic.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 28-May-2007 at 09:19 |
I really cannot believe what I have just read, is this what is taught in Serbia about this war?
Don't you know that powerfull Serbian princes, lords and their armies were fighting for the Ottomans against what they saw as oppressive Serbian leaders? Don't you learn about Kraljevic Marko? Konstantin Dejanovic?
What seems to be "hidden" is that Ottoman had many Christian allies and that many Christian warriors and armies thought for the Ottomans as Christians. The Christian Sipahis and their Voyniks fought as Ottomans in the Battle of Serbia, this all seems to be forgotten. Why is Prince Marko a Serbian legend with mythical status? he was an Ottoman and fought for Ottomans.
Zagros
I think Timur e Leng's army was stronger than Osmanli.
His army wasn't more powerfull, Timur was the better pollitician, he told the Turkmen beys and clans, look at Bayezid he's neglecting and not giving the credit that is deserved. Basically, Timur spoke of himself as "BasBug" leader of Turks, he promoted the Turkish Beys giving them more power and promised alot more.
What happened is, the Turkish Beys and Clans joined Timur in the war, leaving Bayezid without a chance.
The problem was caused by Bayezid anyway, Timur wanted to ally with Bayezid which Bayezid refused. However, after the war we know that they both respected each other and Timur mourned Bayezids death.
The war taught the Ottomans that the backbone of their state were these Beys and Clans and they had to treat them well and give them lands in order for them to stay loyal or they would revolt which happened again like in the Safavi-Ottoman wars.
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 03:36 |
The most annoying thing here is that everybody is talking of some Hungaro-croat army and Bosnian army. Point is that Hungaro-croat army was 200 crusaders strong! Point is that Bosnian army was Serb army also!
You think when you read wiki that you know everything.
Only that is sure for this battle is that Serbs was outnumbered 2 by 1, that it was mainly Serbian army, that is was great sacrifise from the Serbian nobles. Aftermath was devastated armies from both sides. Both leaders was dead, none knows how they died. Turks will say that Murad was killed in assasination ofcourse. They will not admit if he was killed in combat with Lazar's center. Turks retreted after battle to their capital. Bayazid killed his own brother becouse of the trone right after the battle.
Serbs was asking for help from all Europian people but allmost noone came. Yes we have traitors and cowards like every nation and they was on Turks side. That was the downfall of our empire. But we made sacrifice that marked us for eternety.
At the end, we could just let them trough Serbia like some nations did. No, we wanted to fight for our freedom!
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TheDiplomat
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 04:06 |
Originally posted by feanor11985
Only that is sure for this battle is that Serbs was outnumbered 2 by 1,
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actually it is one thing that we can never be sure of
In the contemporary history the strength of armies, statistical info are available. But when it comes to 1389, I don't think nobody bothered to count the exact numbers of the fighting sides before the battle
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 12:15 |
Originally posted by feanor11985
The most annoying thing here is that everybody is talking of some Hungaro-croat army and Bosnian army. Point is that Hungaro-croat army was 200 crusaders strong! Point is that Bosnian army was Serb army also!
You think when you read wiki that you know everything.
Only that is sure for this battle is that Serbs was outnumbered 2 by 1, that it was mainly Serbian army, that is was great sacrifise from the Serbian nobles. Aftermath was devastated armies from both sides. Both leaders was dead, none knows how they died. Turks will say that Murad was killed in assasination ofcourse. They will not admit if he was killed in combat with Lazar's center. Turks retreted after battle to their capital. Bayazid killed his own brother becouse of the trone right after the battle.
Serbs was asking for help from all Europian people but allmost noone came. Yes we have traitors and cowards like every nation and they was on Turks side. That was the downfall of our empire. But we made sacrifice that marked us for eternety.
At the end, we could just let them trough Serbia like some nations did. No, we wanted to fight for our freedom!
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The Bosnian army was not Serb, nor even Orthodox Christian, the only Bosnian region that had a significant number of Orthodox Christians(not Serbs) was Hercegovina. Bosnia proper was majority Catholic, and offshoot Bosnian Church, there were ten or twenty orthodox families in the border regions. You obviously are a Serbian nationalist, and King Tvrtko I was a Bosnian king, who had been crowned king of Serbs as well. That is why he send his Bosnian army to fight alongside the Serb forces.
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miki015
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 19:17 |
Originally posted by feanor11985
The most annoying thing here is that everybody is talking of some Hungaro-croat army and Bosnian army. Point is that Hungaro-croat army was 200 crusaders strong! Point is that Bosnian army was Serb army also!
You think when you read wiki that you know everything.
Only
that is sure for this battle is that Serbs was outnumbered 2 by 1, that
it was mainly Serbian army, that is was great sacrifise from the
Serbian nobles. Aftermath was devastated armies from both sides.
Both leaders was dead, none knows how they died. Turks will say that
Murad was killed in assasination ofcourse. They will not admit if he
was killed in combat with Lazar's center. Turks retreted after battle to their capital. Bayazid killed his own brother becouse of the trone right after the battle.
Serbs was asking for help from all Europian people but allmost noone came. Yes we have traitors and cowards like every nation and they was on Turks side. That was the downfall of our empire. But we made sacrifice that marked us for eternety.
At the end, we could just let them trough Serbia like some nations did. No, we wanted to fight for our freedom!
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That is righ opinion,my fellow man!!!!
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Sa verom u Boga
za Kralja i Otadzbinu
Miki
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