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Turkish Military gives a warning to the Parliament

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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish Military gives a warning to the Parliament
    Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 20:41
^ good post bulldog.
 
edit: Bleda your offending posts has been hidden and will be reviewed, maybe you should try to debate rather than rant 
 


Edited by Leonidas - 29-Apr-2007 at 20:44
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 02:19
I should also add, It is a little unknown, who write warning..
 
 
Writer is absolutely not someone who know how to write...(I am sure army can write a better warning than this.)
 
Maybe, army was not totally guilty but with staying silent, They supported writer..
 
 
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 07:37
well the markets didnt like the news. Most Global  investors don't understand the particular nuances of turkey's politics ( well that goes for almost all emerging markets), but when this 'warning' hit the news their risk appetite becomes risk aversion. Hot foreign dollars can easily make or break any countries market and there isnt any real defense against it. (any one heard the story of when George Soros beat the Bank of England?)

A while ago i said the growing economy and investment in turkey has allot to do with the EU membership and related reforms. while this isn't a true crashing movement im very confident a coup would bring one on.


Turkey's main stock index and its currency, the lira, have tumbled amid fears that the army will block the government's pick for president.

The main ISE National 100 index lost 8% of its value upon opening and the lira dropped as much as 4% in early trading.

Hundreds of thousands of people rallied in Istanbul over the weekend to protest against the candidacy of Abdullah Gul.

Protesters in support of secularism in Turkey are concerned that Mr Gul has remained loyal to his Islamic roots.

Mr Gul failed to win election in a first round parliamentary vote, though he has said he will stand in the second round of voting on 2 May.

On Friday, the army accused the government of tolerating radical Islam and vowed to defend secularism.

Higher risk

Turkey's army has toppled three governments since 1960, and analysts said there were fears that it could intervene again.

The threat of army intervention in Turkey's politics has unnerved the country's financial markets, which last week had reached historic highs supported by an appetite for emerging market assets and the prospect of Turkey's accession to the European Union.

The ISE National 100, Turkey main share index, fell 3745.18 points, or 8%, to 43,116.13.

The lira also headed south to 1.3882 against the US dollar after trading at 1.32 on Friday - its strongest level for nearly a year.

"We would expect a sharp downward market correction... as investors recognise that political risks have notched up significantly," said Bear Stearns economist Timothy Ash.

The staunchly secularist opposition party boycotted the first-round presidential vote because it was not consulted on Mr Gul's selection as the candidate for the Justice and Development (AK) Party.

They have asked the country's constitutional court to invalidate the vote on the basis that not enough lawmakers were present.

The court is expected to deliver a verdict by Wednesday, when the second round of voting is due to take place.

Market support

Analysts expect market volatility to continue while political uncertainty prevails.

But they are generally confident that a sharp sell-off akin to that seen last May, when the markets were hit by global inflation fears, is not on the cards.

Turkey's economy has been recovering from financial turmoil in 2001, and a number of reforms since then have helped to sustain growth.

The current government has also managed to keep its finances in check as part of its plans to cut national debt levels and meet the economic requirements of the International Monetary Fund and those needed to join the European Union.

Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister Abdullatif Sener said the government was following the current market reaction, adding that there was foreign and domestic confidence in the state of the economy.

BBC


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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 12:45
My eyes search for Beylerbeyi's opinion about this topic, im sure he could say more...


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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 12:49

I dont belive that there could be a new coup d'etat for Turkey.

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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 19:09
Turkey is a secular republic with no religion.

that bleda guy's post was outrageous, he should show some respect
"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 00:04
Originally posted by DayI

My eyes search for Beylerbeyi's opinion about this topic, im sure he could say more...


I concur, his opinion is missed. I do remember he had some very well back up arguements against the akp when debating with mortaza. I have yet to see anything close
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 02:13
I dont think this time he will accuse AKP because of coup threat..
 
Sure AKP have his mistakes, but for now, imminent danger is not against secularism(If there is any, AKP is half liberal-half nationalist - half religious-half-weird party)  but democracy..
 

I dont belive that there could be a new coup d'etat for Turkey.

 
If AKP retreated against army, we would call this warning as a coup.. Thanks God, first time at the history of Turkish State, civilians(Maybe we should say goverment, other party leaders failed at this fight.) talk against coup.
 
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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 03:56

As a communist, I'm disturbed by both sides. The rise of conservatism and nationalism brought about a fascistic environment of intolerance. Being different from the majority gets harder day by day. On one side, I'm against the very nature of the religion and its legitimating role for the oppression. I'm not disturbed by the headscarf itself but by the understanding that a woman should be packed as a property for her man. Also it's quite disturbing that the president of Turkey is de facto appointed by the prime minister (not even by the party in power). As a result of the unfair nature of representation (10% threshold) the parties in the parliament do not reflect "the will of the people" (leaving aside the discussions about representation).

On the other hand, I'm really disturbed by the nationalist opposition and the intervention of the military in politics. The army itself supported and nourished political Islam through the 1980 coup against communists and now they seem hypocritical. I'm a man who has serious problems with authority and I will stand both against  the Islamists and any kind of junta.
 
As a post, the presidency has some questionnable powers. For example, he cannot be held responsible for his activities. He can be judged only for treason against the motherland. For me, the problem can be solved as follows: The law on elections should be amended, "the will of people (though it's a discussable issue when all the manipulations by capitalists and mass media are taken into consideration)  should be truly reflected in the parliament by abolishing the election threshold, the questionnable powers of the president should be reduced and only after this the president should be elected.   
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 07:08
Originally posted by Leonidas

Originally posted by DayI

My eyes search for Beylerbeyi's opinion about this topic, im sure he could say more...


I concur, his opinion is missed. I do remember he had some very well back up arguements against the akp when debating with mortaza. I have yet to see anything close
he had interesting opinions on both sides (military and the akp), my eyes was searching for his opinion about the military actually.

When i did read this my opinions are honestly f*cked up, in this site they say that "warning message" of TSK was made up by an general who's gonna leave the army after 4 months and his opinions doesnt reflect the ones from the TSK.

....Ouch
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 07:46

Warning is poorly writen. Army have better writers. I should also add, I found Bykanıt more democratic than our democratic party leaders..

 
It is most probably not opinion of TSK but They have no chance but accept it.
 
I think that I overreacted a little.Still, it is not a good thing to have such rebellion inside of TSK...
 
 
 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 07:53
By the way, Page is too new.. I dont think this webpage have any relation with TSK or harbiye..
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 11:10
Originally posted by kotumeyil

"the will of people" should be truly reflected in the parliament by abolishing the election threshold

That problem cannot be solved so easily.

The system eliminates any radical movement which attempts to change Turkey's political paradigms.

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 12:20

Now, It looks like we are going to elections..

Lets see, what can system do about vote of people.
 
 
 
 
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 13:10
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by bleda

to all akp fans take your terrorist muhammed and go out my county.

Would you mind if I asked your religion?



he probably will say someting like Tengrist or shamanist

aha people tend to go with the old religion these days specially the ultra non islamist nationalists
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2007 at 02:55
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by kotumeyil

"the will of people" should be truly reflected in the parliament by abolishing the election threshold

That problem cannot be solved so easily.

The system eliminates any radical movement which attempts to change Turkey's political paradigms.

 
True. That's why I said "aside from the discussions about representation, bla bla..." 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2007 at 03:00

It looks like crise turned to benefit...

Now, people will choose both priminister and president of Turkey. More people vote, more people talk, more people decide...
 
Less systemic bullsh*t. After 80 year, what did we gain from system? Except becoming one of poorest, undemocratic and militarist country of Europea.
 
 
 
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2007 at 05:52

Yes, and after the President chosen by the people, it will also turn into a political race, nothing else...The "neutrality" of the president will be disputed.

Turkey's situation is more of a fault of the people before the corrupt and skilless executive powers(governments)... "Every folk is governed in the way they deserve"..A proverb which has a right point..



Edited by Kapikulu - 02-May-2007 at 05:54
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2007 at 06:00
Originally posted by Mortaza

It looks like crise turned to benefit...

Now, people will choose both priminister and president of Turkey. More people vote, more people talk, more people decide...
 
Less systemic bullsh*t. After 80 year, what did we gain from system? Except becoming one of poorest, undemocratic and militarist country of Europea.


The system was ok and understandable for a new republic that had just experienced a rather bloody birth with competing ethno-nationalisms. 80 years on and a bit overdue, Turkey needs something more relevant for today's situation.

Glad to see the (remaining) leftist opinions heard on this subject though.



Edited by Leonidas - 02-May-2007 at 06:02
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2007 at 06:22
Originally posted by Kapikulu

Yes, and after the President chosen by the people, it will also turn into a political race, nothing else...The "neutrality" of the president will be disputed.

Turkey's situation is more of a fault of the people before the corrupt and skilless executive powers(governments)... "Every folk is governed in the way they deserve"..A proverb which has a right point..

Im not sure if i would consider this one 'neutral', though im not to sure that the AKP solution is the best way forward either. even if i think reform is good.

The problem with a popular elected president is that you have two centers of power/positions with very strong personal mandates. This wont work well if the president has any real powers and AKAIK the Turkish version does. This can mean, you either have two aligned positions with power concentrated to one party (like the AKP) or two in opposition which could easily result with one very ineffective government. There are better ways forward.




Edited by Leonidas - 02-May-2007 at 06:27
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