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Feramez View Drop Down
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turks And Mongols
    Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 16:13
Yes Padishah, I agree.  Definetly Chuvash, I never heard the language, but I have been told that a Turk would be lucky to understand a word from a Chuvash speaker.
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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 17:11
Well Chuvash is very different from Oghuz Turkic. It's the only group being the descendent of the Western dialect of Old Turkic.
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 20:55
I know about most of the dialects but the dialects spoken in Siberia I don't know much about.  I know the names of them but I don't know which dialect they are closest to or how they sound.  May you explain?
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  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2005 at 14:13

I don't understand how people think that Azeris were already ''there'' before Turkic migrations. Caucasian Albania and Atropatene (Adrbadagan) were as Azeri as Byzantium and Pontus were Turkish. Albania, an ancient kingdom in the area of Azerbaijan had more to do with Armenians than with Azeris. They beleived in the Armenian version of Christianity, and used an alphabet created by an Armenian.

Muslims of modern Azerbaijan used to be called Tatars during the 19th century.

It's true that Armenians and Azeris were close. If it wasn't for Russian rule (or should I say, misrule) we would have remained close...

 

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  Quote Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 21:55

Today's Mongolians were common descendants of many ancient nomadic nations in the Mongolian steppes, such as Xiong-nu,Xian-bei,Rou-ran,Tu-jue,Khitan,etc, most of those were proto-Mongolian and proto-Turkic nations.  I don't see there're any difference between Modun's Xiong-nu, Tumen's Tujue and Chinggis Khan's Mongols except the origins of their royal families.

 

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  Quote Hardel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 06:31
A kazakh guy said me:We are speaking Turkish.I understand Kyrgyz and Uigur,but don't understand Uzbek and Turk.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 09:48

Originally posted by Hardel

A kazakh guy said me:We are speaking Turkish.I understand Kyrgyz and Uigur,but don't understand Uzbek and Turk.

Kazakh is not very similar to Oguz Turkish. This is one of the hardest Turkic languages to understand for an Oguz originated Turkic community and language. Turkey Turkish is mostly similar to Azeri, but with a few weaks of education in Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan, we can totally communicate with them. Kyrgiz, Kazakh, Chuvash and Altai Turkish are much more harder than Uighur for a Turkey Turkish speaker...

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 14:40
I always thougt that if you can understand and speak Uygur, you would have no problem with Ozbek.  The two dialects are almost identical, some linguistics even think they might be the same dialect with very little differences.
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  Quote mongol warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 19:08

Originally posted by Feramez

I'm planning on going there maybe this summer or next winter.  A trip I been wanting to take for a ling time.
dont go in winter time!!! the weather's about  - 30'C.

i think think there is enough common in mongolian and turkish tradition,

and lot of words are (have) same (meaning), ex : mongolian flower - tsetseg [spelling in turkish : ceceg] == turkish checheg [c,ec,eg] .. etc..

 

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 22:57
Oh yea, we share a lot of words in our languages.  Quite a few military terms as well, ex. Turkish-tmen and I think it's the same in Mongolian.  I'm not going unless it's in July during the annual Cengiz Han festival.  I doubt I'll make it though, I'm getting a new job and they probably wont give me vacation that quickly.  So I'll have to go next year maybe.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 05:07

Dear Oghuz  Oghlu,

    Hi there. This is my second message for you I think! Anyhow, I just wanted to tell you this: I'm a Turkmen. If you know your Turkish really good, you can understand all accents in Central Asia. Now, I'm not showing off, but I told you before... in the place I am for the time being, I live with Uzbeks, Kazaks and a Kyrgiz family. You know, I understand most of them easily. I said most of them and not all of them; because every Turkish accent's got it's own words not used in others. By the way, most researchers say that we've got three groups of Altaic languages: Turkish and Mongolian wich are somehow alike (somehow) and a thrid group like Chuvash which is not like any of the Turkish or Mongolian accents. Seems like it belongs to a very ancient form of the Altaic languages. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regars,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 05:16

Dear Mongol Warrior (the brother),

   Hi there. How's it going? Fine, I'd hope. I just wanted to mention more common words in our languages... words like:

   Tumen ( 10000), Altin (Gold) in Turkish and Altan in Mongolian, Sari (yellow in Turkish) and Sira in Mongolian, Kan common in both of them, Kakan common in both of them, Bori (wolf) in Turkish and Borti in Mongolian, Temir (iron) in Turkish wich is similar to yours, ' Ok Yayi' in Turkish... agian similar to yours, Batir (brave) in Turkish and Batur in Mongolian, Tengiz (sea) in Turkish and Chengiz in Mongolian, Tikin (king) in Turkish and Chikin (as in Ot Chikin you might say; we say Ot Tikin) in Mongolian, Yarligh in both of them, Oghul in both of them, and a lot more words you may find az common. My brother, take good care and just take it easy.

 

All the best,

Iltirish 

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:29

Dear Turks & Mongols,

   Hi there. How's it going? Fine, I'd hope. Well, one thing I'll say about my ID is that it has nothing to do with the name of the empire 'Gok Turk'. The second word of my ID, 'toruk' is derived from the verb 'Toremek'. You all know what it means: ' to be born'. I've heard a lot of people here call me 'Gok Turk'. It's ok anyhow, but I just wanted to inform you of the right way to write my name. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:39

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, let's face this issue... I'm going to talk about the nations of Central Asia. I'll leave a message describing each of them.

   To begin, I should say, only the names of Kyrgizes and Turkmens (oghuzes) was found in old inscriptions. Word 'Uzbek' dates back to almost 1400 A.D. and 'Kazak' to 1500 A.D. First, I'll try to tell you the story of Uzbeks.

   One of the descendents of Chenghiz Khan named 'Uzbek' was the kan of the land which is now known az Uzbekistan. He lead people from different tribes like Kipchak, Turkmens (oghuzes), Jalayer and a lot more. His people years later was called, in honor of their kan, 'Uzbek'. This happened around 1400 A.D. Nowhere you may find this name before that date. But they aer Turk anyhow. Take good care and just take it eays.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

 

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:47

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, this time, the story is about Kazaks. Sometime around 1500 A.D., a man who led a big tribe, killed one of the men of Sutan Abu Sa'eed Abal Kheyr (right?). So he and his men had to leave his homeland. During years later, he gained a big land to settle his people. They were called Kazaks. Like Uzbeks, you find a lot of Turkish and also Mongolian tribes who call themselves Kazak. But all of them bilieve they are Turk and speak Turkish. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

 

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:51

Dear Turks & Mongols,

   Hi there. I just forget to tell you in the upper part: the messages above does not mean Uzbeks and Kazaks are not pure. They are a mixture of Turks and Mongols; but again, they are a pure sample of Yellow great rag. So, I'm just not attacking my Uzbeks and kazaks 'karin tash's. So, please understand I don't mean anything. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 12:15

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing Fine. Well, about Oghuzes (former name of Turkmens), I should say, they left Mongolia in almost 900 A.D. Because they were consisted of 9 tribes, they were called 'toghuz oghuz'. They were one of the biggest tribes of the seteppes. Even after getting to Central Asia, they were still a strong tribe among others. After making up the 'gok turk' empire with other tribes, in Central Asia they started the empire Ghaznali, Seljuk li. They were one of the bases of Kharazm li empire too.

   Years later, a small part of Oghuzes migrated to Turkey. They were 'kinik's. Usmanli rised from this tribe. But because of change in weather and the fact that Kiniks mixed up with europeans, they were no longer like their ancestors. Nowadays, only Turkmenistan Oghuz (Turkmens) look like a Turk & Mongol. That's about it . Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 12:21

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Now, this time is about Kyrgizes. Their name appeares in Orkhon Inscriptions. They used to live far in the Northern Mongolia. In 924 A.D., they invaded Orkhon. Almost 100 years later, they migrated to Central Asia (you know why all these tribes migrated to Central Asia? Just because they were getting too crowded. They need food for their family, place for the horses... and new places to invade!!!). Kyrgizes, were rather more silent compared to Oghuzes or Kipchaks. Maybe because they were less in numbers. Anyhow, they seem to keep the ancient customs pretty good. Still now, most of them have the nomoadic life. That's about it for the time being. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 12:54
Gok Toruk, I think you made a mistake.  You said that the three branches of the Altaic languages are Turkish, Mongolian and Chuvash.  It's actually Turkish, Mongolian and Tungus.  Chuvash is a sub group in the Turkish language, only containing 2 dialects of Chuvash.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 14:52

Originally posted by gok_toruk

Dear Oghuz  Oghlu,

    Hi there. This is my second message for you I think! Anyhow, I just wanted to tell you this: I'm a Turkmen. If you know your Turkish really good, you can understand all accents in Central Asia. Now, I'm not showing off, but I told you before... in the place I am for the time being, I live with Uzbeks, Kazaks and a Kyrgiz family. You know, I understand most of them easily. I said most of them and not all of them; because every Turkish accent's got it's own words not used in others. By the way, most researchers say that we've got three groups of Altaic languages: Turkish and Mongolian wich are somehow alike (somehow) and a thrid group like Chuvash which is not like any of the Turkish or Mongolian accents. Seems like it belongs to a very ancient form of the Altaic languages. Take good care and just take it easy.

Kind regars,

Iltirish

Dear Iltirish,

Hi there, I couldnt find your other message to me, but it doesnt matter, nice to meet you. I am an Anatolian Turkmen, so I will call you brother. My uncle has been to central asia lots of times, and he says that to understand and communicate with a Turkmen and Uzbek is much more easier than to speak with a Kazakh and Kyrgiz Turk. I thought that Altaic languages were divided into three main parts, as Turkic, Tunguzic and Mongolian, but I am not aware of the new researches about this. But I know that Chuvash is a much more different dialect than others.

After I've read your other post about the Turkish immigrations to Anatolia, I detected lots of mistakes in your post. You were wrong with some points, especially with the amount of Turkish (mostly Turkmen) immigrations to Anatolia. Tribes from all 24 "ok" of Oguz Turkmens and from all other Turkic tribes have immigrated to Anatolia, with mass migrations since even before the battle of Manzikert and the conquests of Seljuks, 9th and 10th centuries and they were mostly Oguz, Kipchak and Pechenek Turks. These mass immigrations continiued until two hundred years after the Mongol invasions and the battle of Ankara, Osmanli (Ottomans) against Timurlu (Timurids). So I can even say that most of the current Turkmen population have immigrated to Persia with Seljuks, Khwarizmshah, Safavids, Azerbaijan, and mostly all over Anatolia. Today, eve some cities and lots of towns are named from those tribes' in Anatolia, such as Ighdir and Yureghir.

And Ottoman dynasty's origins were not from Kinik tribe. Gunduz Alp Begh, Ertughrul Begh and his son, Osman Begh all belonged to "Kayi" tribe of "Bozok". But the Seljuks belonged to Knk. I also belong to the Knk tribe of Turkmens.

But this is true that lots of intermixing happened btw the huge Turkish population who immigrated to these regions and Persian (Acem), current Anatolian population and part with Europeans (but this isnt that much for most of Turkey Turks). But there still exist lots of us who didnt mix with Europeans nor Anatolians, but maybe some with Acemi originated tribes.

I am waiting to chat with you in the non-English board, and you can always send me pms if you wish...

With kinder regards,

Yashar Emre

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