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white knight
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Topic: joust:Knight vs Persian Cavalry Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 09:45 |
Who is your best bet when this two joust...
this Persian Cavalry or ...
this knight.
Edited by white knight - 23-Mar-2007 at 10:39
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Knights
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Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 20:11 |
What is the objective? Break your lance, hit the opponent of their horse..?
The Knight could easily knock the Persian off, but his lance looks rather 'metally' and would be really hard to break!
The Knight is definitely more heavily armoured, but the horse doesn't look like it can seen anything...then again the Persian's armour would probably be less protective than the Knight's.
If it comes down to the two of them suddenly put into a jousting arena, my bet is on the Knight...I'm not aware of jousting contests held by Persian cavalry (could be wrong...).
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Zagros
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Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 20:34 |
That's not a very accurate depiction of the Cataphract. It was much more heavily armored, both man and horse, at least according to Roman records.
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pekau
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Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 23:38 |
Depends on the environment, weather, etc. But I will go for knights.
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Knights
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Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 23:47 |
Yes Zagros is right, that particular one looks fairly under-protected. I was referring to the Persian cavalry featured when I stated that the Knight would win. However, a Sassanid Cataphract would completely turn the tables...
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 06:07 |
I thought the cataphract and the knight were from diffrent eras.
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Knights
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Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 06:17 |
Yes the Clibinarii/Azadins under say, Chosroes I (peak of Sassanid military) were from the 6th/7th century AD, to the Knight's height several hundred years later. The time difference wouldn't make much of a difference to be honest - it would be an interesting match-up.
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Eondt
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Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 02:46 |
It's not a very good depiction of the knight either. The lance is made out of metal and tucked underneath the wrong arm. It seems like his wearing a barbutte style of helm which isn't a very good idea when your on horseback and the horse armour just lloks awful. Might this have been a better picture? (Barring the lack of lance)
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white knight
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Posted: 03-May-2007 at 06:34 |
Originally posted by Knights
What is the objective? Break your lance, hit the opponent of their horse..?
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Actually guys this is a joust to the death. hehe!
The mobile Cataphract vs the heavy but well protected knight.
maybe this is a better discription of a cataphract verses the knight posted by Eondt
Edited by white knight - 03-May-2007 at 06:43
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Jagiello
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Posted: 03-May-2007 at 07:03 |
I don't think you can compare medieval knights 1000-1500AD with cataphracts 400-700AD.The cataphracts might have been heavy armourded but it was another kind of metal.The Maximilian or Gothic armours for example were made from steel in far better conditions than the cataphract's armour.And the lance was also very different.There were new techniques of making lances in 15th century that made them very long and yet light,while cataphract's lance was a litle more than a long spear.Something i haven't heard about is if there were tournaments in Persia like those in Europe.If there were a very,very good cataphract might defeat a knight,otherwise i don't think it was possible.After all,the knights were trained in such tournaments to do exactly that and with all the equipment i believe he would defeat the cataphract.
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Praetor
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Posted: 03-May-2007 at 07:31 |
We would all benefit from knowing which type of Cataphract and Knight
we are comparing with each other as both have long histories and served
in the armies of many states. Furtheremore I find it somewhat unfair
for the Cataphract who must participate in a duel designed for Knights.
Regards, Praetor.
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Zagros
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Posted: 03-May-2007 at 14:56 |
This relief of Khosro Parviz from my hometown is often used to depict Persic cavalry, but one crucial factor they forget is that this is the King of Kings, so his armour is bound to be different.
I also read something a while ago that the sport jousting itself was of Persian origin, unfortunately, it was quite a while ago and I cannot remember the source.
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Zagros
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Posted: 03-May-2007 at 14:57 |
I actualy think the Rome total war depictions are the best so far in this thread of Persian heavy cavalry.
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white knight
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Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 07:47 |
Originally posted by Jagiello
I don't think you can compare medieval knights 1000-1500AD with cataphracts 400-700AD.The cataphracts might have been heavy armourded but it was another kind of metal.The Maximilian or Gothic armours for example were made from steel in far better conditions than the cataphract's armour. |
lets say the catapharact then would joust a Norman lancer if you prefer.
Edited by white knight - 23-Aug-2007 at 07:49
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 08:07 |
Considering the knight came from a period roughly 500 years after the
fall of the Sassanid Empire, my bet would be on the knight. Their armor
was typically harder to pierce as metallurgy had advanced considerably
by the High Middle Ages. In a contest between scale/lamellar armor and
plate, plate tends to win. If we are talking about the exquisite plate
of the Late Medieval Period, then it is really no contest.
I don't think this is a fair comparison as the two units are separated
by hundreds of years of improvements in saddle and armor design, as
well as horse husbandry.
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Zagros
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Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 14:05 |
Knights of the 12th century (first crusades) had lighter armour than Sassanid cavalry all they had in fact was chainmail. Persian armour was not just scale but also layered plate, similar to Roman armour using strong folded steel - if Roman and Islamic (steel) sources themselves are to be believed.
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Seko
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Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 14:23 |
It's all about leverage and weight and material in this joust. The Knight has stirrups. The Persian Cavalry (Sassanian? Later day Persian Ghulam would be slightly more protected) doesn't appear to. Point for Knight.
Persian Cataphract appears to have a firm grip on his lance but no backstop. Does the Knight have better leverage? Knights ere known to have hand guards (vamplate). Point for Knight.
Your typical medieval jousting lance was usually hollow in the middle to break and not kill. The Persian cavalry would most likely have kill on his mind. Hence a more sturdy lance. Point for Persian guy.
The purpose is to unseat the rider. Those were the jousting rules. Knights knew this. Is this how the Cataphracts fought? Point Persian.
Chivalry. Tied.
Fairest maiden of them all. To the victor goes the spoils (at least on tv).
Point for Knight dude.
Knight 3, Persian 2, one tie.
Winner - Knight.
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