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does the us need nato military alliance

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: does the us need nato military alliance
    Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 15:15
Because their is no such thing as the soviet union or the warsaw pact do we need n.a.t.o..
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 17:12
NATO is doing a very good job in Afghanistan. Since the resurgence of the Taliban, fighting has been fierce there. The Warlords are also notoriously shifty, so more Allied boots on the ground is helping a lot over there.
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 19:02
Things change and evolve.  The original purpose of NATO is non sequitur, but there is still a benefit from having the alliance.
 
As there was a rationale for the USSR having a cordon sanitaire in east Europe to buffer the West, there is a rationale for the West having something similar to guard against a resurgence of Russian power.
 
There is also a rationale for NATO as a deterrant against possible future threats from the Maghreb - either official or unofficial.
 
 
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  Quote Slick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 20:11
I think that it is still an important establishment for the US to have on its' side. Even with the fall of the USSR, the United States still has its' enemies, and still needs to try to woo as many allies to its' side as possible. The breakdown of military alliances like NATO, SEATO and all those other groups would be detrimental to the United States in the future [should such a breakdown happen].  As aforementioned, we never know what wars with countries in the Middle East, in Asia or in other distant locations may occur in the future. Should we ever come face to face with another modern country, either in a cold war or direct engagement type scenario, we should be prepared with allies all across the globe. NATO, from what I remember, stands for North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It has been good for keeping up the relation of the United States with Europe. Such a relationship is excellent for the United States to keep cultivating in the future.

Edited by Slick - 16-Feb-2007 at 20:15
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 05:17
NATO is an organization of the Western military to fight against the growing power of the East and balance the power of the world... even if East's power includes terrorists and other militants and religious zealots...
     
   
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 22:50
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

NATO is doing a very good job in Afghanistan. Since the resurgence of the Taliban, fighting has been fierce there. The Warlords are also notoriously shifty, so more Allied boots on the ground is helping a lot over there.
 
Is it NATO doing a good job, or the United Kingdom, Canada and the USA taking thier own needed actions against the Taliban? 
 
Other NATO countries have evidently refused to supply more troops and have refused to commit existing troops in Afghanistan into actual combat areas inthe Pathan south.  Instead these troops can only be used  to garisson Kabul, Mazir al Sharif and other areas already firmly under central Afgan government control.
 
Another terror state in Afghanistan is a threat to the entire west.  The French, Italian and German militaries are dedicated and are willing to do more.  They are being held back by their politicians.  Granted, Bush and Company did alot to alienate these countries, but Afghanistan is not Iraq and it is not the place to play political games.  
 


Edited by Cryptic - 17-Feb-2007 at 23:02
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 23:19
Well, that's because it's popular politically to be very anti-American. Little do these short-sighted politicians realize that they owe their continued positions of power to the US, it's military, and it's willingness to use it. For the French, especially, this sentiment doesn't make much sense. We already saved their country twice, picked up their slack in Vietnam, and do a large part of their banking, as well as giving them countless millions of dollars in tourist revenue over the past few decades.
Even our old ally, Britain, is growing increasingly anti-US in it's sentiments, if not yet it's policies. However, the actions of these nations show that however much anti-US whining they do, they're still unwilling to cut and run (something they've been advising us to do in Iraq for years now) from their relationships with us because they know that if we fall, so do they. However, us not falling is also largely dependent upon their support. In short, you don't have to like your bed-fellows all the time, but if it's mutually profitable, sometimes you've just got to grin and bear it.
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 12:18
   
 
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

Little do these short-sighted politicians realize that they owe their continued positions of power to the US, it's military, and it's willingness to use it. However, the actions of these nations show that however much anti-US whining they do, they're still unwilling to cut and run
 
I agree completely.  What saved Western Europe during WWII and during the cold war was U.S. interest and power.  And they still need it.
 
But it might be good to examine some things for the other sides'  point of view.
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

For the French, especially, this sentiment doesn't make much sense. We already saved their country twice,
 
The Germans were going to collapse in 1918 or ealry 1919 with or without U.S. help.   The French and the British fought for 4 years while the U.S. fought for 5 months.   French and British casualties were roughly 9-10 times U.S. casualties.   The French especially  see American claims about the "WWI save" as stealing the credit by exagerrating a very late and relatively easy  U.S. response.
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

In short, you don't have to like your bed-fellows all the time, but if it's mutually profitable, sometimes you've just got to grin and bear it.
Good point, and to have a profitable relaitionship, both parties should cut down on giving "needless offense".   Dick Cheney has evidently refused to have lunch with the French Ambassador three times.   Even small things like the official Republican (and thus U.S. Government)  "Freedom Fries"  hooplah could have been toned down.   I am sure that the French have done simialr things as well. 


Edited by Cryptic - 18-Feb-2007 at 12:33
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 13:37
NATO seems to have utterly failed in the prime objective for it's creation, keeping Germany divided and now seems to be trying to conjure another one to justify all the expense.
 
With all European countries cutting military budgets drastically since the Cold War and continuing to do this now. Soon the proposed combined military will have to happen like it of not. Couple this with US military spending continuing to increase. NATO in the near future will be one huge military (US) of a country no-longer with an economy capable of ever using it. And two tiny militaries (Canada, Europe) of countries with the money but reluctant to use them. NATO will simply become the US military unleashed when Europe and Canada consent to pay for the mission. 
 
For the US commitment to NATO is obvious it adds more purses to it's military, Saudi's and Kuwait's, can't always be relied on the pay for the war.
 
For Europe, a situation rather like Saudi Arabia and Japan could exist. Both countries have recently done surveys and worked out it's cheaper to have US bases in their countries and pay the US government for them. Japan calculated to develop, train and pay for the Japanese military to replace the US would cost 4 times the price of employing US to do it. That's why when the US wanted to pull out of Japan the Japanese government opposed it. In Saudi Arabia a similar pact with the US exists, however the US recognises how important having a large section of its military paid fopr by the Saudis is, and actively seeks to have them continue this arrangement. The Saudis a little more sceptical than the Japanese continue but demonstrate to the US the nature of the arrangement by granting US troops in Saudi Arabia the status of servants not foriegn soldiers. 
 
For NATO a similar case may emerge, a US military on hand for Europe to pay for whenever needed, but no expense of maintaining one itself and the US eager to have its military paid for whenever possible. The continuation of NATO may simply be one tiny part of the US's new role as the Swiss or Landsknechts of the world.
 
 
 


Edited by Paul - 18-Feb-2007 at 14:04
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  Quote Slick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 20:03
About NATO's objective...
 
I think that its' goal was more to stop the Soviets from uniting Germany, rather than to keep it divided. Having East Germany fall and Germany itself become a capitalist state is more of a victory than keeping it half under Soviet hands and half democratic.


Edited by Slick - 18-Feb-2007 at 20:04
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 17:28
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Brian J Checco

NATO is doing a very good job in Afghanistan. Since the resurgence of the Taliban, fighting has been fierce there. The Warlords are also notoriously shifty, so more Allied boots on the ground is helping a lot over there.
 
Is it NATO doing a good job, or the United Kingdom, Canada and the USA taking thier own needed actions against the Taliban? 
 
Other NATO countries have evidently refused to supply more troops and have refused to commit existing troops in Afghanistan into actual combat areas inthe Pathan south.  Instead these troops can only be used  to garisson Kabul, Mazir al Sharif and other areas already firmly under central Afgan government control.
 
Another terror state in Afghanistan is a threat to the entire west.  The French, Italian and German militaries are dedicated and are willing to do more.  They are being held back by their politicians.  Granted, Bush and Company did alot to alienate these countries, but Afghanistan is not Iraq and it is not the place to play political games.  
 
 
Ahh, but, Cryptic, Afghanistan is the sedes belli of "The Great Game."
 
Wink
 
 
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 17:32
Originally posted by destroyer

Because their is no such thing as the soviet union or the warsaw pact do we need n.a.t.o..
 
Do common interests evaporate because there is no USSR or Warsaw Pact?  I think not.  NATO has resources, and NATO has a combination of interests that are common enough to cause the alliance to see value in continued military and diplomatic efforts in various arenas.
 
 
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 19:05
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Ahh, but, Cryptic, Afghanistan is the sedes belli of "The Great Game."
Wink
 
Ironically, I copy Saint Thomas Aquinas in Latin Calligraphy.  But I dont really know alot of LatinConfused.
 
What does Sedes Belli mean?Embarrassed


Edited by Cryptic - 19-Feb-2007 at 19:06
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 19:18
Sedes belli is "the seat (site) of war," or the main theater for the contest.  The "Great Game" was the appellation for the contest waged by the British and Russian empires over influence in south Asia - mostly in Afghanistan - in the 19th century.
 
It was, in essence, a cold war.  The Great Game goes on.
 
 
 
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2007 at 20:27
Russia's on the rise again, as well. NATO may again have the oppurtunity to live up to the mission that it was created for. This Putin guy is really starting to ruffle some feathers. Supplying Iran with nuclear material may be a good way to re-establish Russia as a global power... but the US and it's allies certainly aren't going to like it.
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  Quote bagelofdoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 11:24
How you answer this question in the US really depends on how neoconservative you are.  It is something of a fundamental belief of the academics that make up the foundation of the neoconservative movement that America does not need allies and can act unilaterally.  Thats why this whole debate is going on. 

NATO is important as hell, it is not really important from a military standpoint right now, if the invasion of Iraq had been carried out in an intelligent manner, the US military would be just fine in terms of its resources.  However, it may be important in the future for the US to have allies on which we can rely for support.  Also, alliances give a much needed appearance of legitimacy to pretty much any military operation, something that we need to keep in mind. 
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 13:11

Of course US needs NATO. How will it be possible to project force if there were no allies? Carriers are not everything.

If NATO members are reluctant in "implicating" themselves in Afg or Irq its just because there are some major flaws regarding the reason of those operations. Yes, it's politics, but US politics started the mess ...
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 19:56
I don't see NATO being around for long especially if on day the EU ratifies the Constitution. Such thing and the ever growing economic power of EU will make NATO obsolete. A major difference of opinion in another conflict in the future might make or break the NATO depending on how its going to affect the relationship of EU with US.
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 07:28
Originally posted by vulkan02

I don't see NATO being around for long especially if on day the EU ratifies the Constitution. Such thing and the ever growing economic power of EU will make NATO obsolete. A major difference of opinion in another conflict in the future might make or break the NATO depending on how its going to affect the relationship of EU with US.
 
I agree with you, NATO, as it is now, is only useful to the US, since their policy sort of agressive. IF Russia steps in and gets on good terms with the EU (not very likely but...) then we might see USA replaced by Russia. Or Russia added to NATO in order to balance China & India. Personally, I don't like being in NATO, but for the time being the interests of Romania are to hold on to this alliance. Romania+Bulgaria+Turkey in NATO means control of the Black Sea, at least.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 11:00

NATO is doing OK, if a little undermanned, in Southern Afghanistan, with Brit, Canadian and Dutch forces.

 

And although they may not be involved in intensive operations, NATO forces in Kabul and the north are playing an important role in maintaining security.

 

Some NATO allies could do a little more in Afghanistan. But it would be silly to throw away almost 60 years of combined operations experience that NATO forces have gained.

 

NATO has evolved and is continuing to evolve from the Cold War to a force geared to operations in trouble spots around the world. The International Security Assistance Force and Operation Active Endeavour (naval anti-terrorism and WMD patrols) show that NATO has a role in the war on terrorism.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#After_the_September_11_attacks

 
Despite experiments in the Congo and Bosnia, the EU is a long way from developing a comparable capability.


Edited by Chwyatt - 22-Mar-2007 at 07:12
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