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Atlantis Submerged circa 1500 B.C. |
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red clay 
Administrator 
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
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 Topic: Atlantis Submerged circa 1500 B.C.Posted: 27-Jun-2007 at 16:49 |
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Well, to begin with Plato isn't the only source for mention of a lost civilization. 2nd, most classical Greek Scholars disagree with you on the dating. The geologic record disagrees with you as well. There is no reason why a civilization couldn't have had an out post in the Atlantic. Research done by Russian scientist drilling ocean core samples in the gibralter straits as well as the Spanish and African coasts shows that the area was last above sea level approx. 11,000 years ago. The areas included in that extend some 600 miles from the present day coastline.
The areas around Malta that are now under water could very well hold vestiges of some older, unknown civilzation, however not quite old enough nor large enough to qualify. Geologically the area suffered a tectonic subsidence roughly 4000bce.
BTW- Carbon dating can be done on something recovered from saltwater. Livermore labs has been doing it for years. Besides, if it's wood that is to be dated there are other ways to do that.
Every time someone starts to discuss the possibility of an older civilzation, predating our own, some idiot or group of idiots starts babbling about Atlantis and a so called super advanced civilzation. Thank you for at least having the insight to separate reality from the fictional and the Edward Cayce nonsense. Horses and spears? Probably, however they were more advanced than later civs in as much as they were a more capable seafaring society, and seemingly had the ability to compute both longitude and latitude. Which, given some of the more recent research isn't as outlandish as previously thought.
Taking some of the particulars of Platos dialog and putting them in context with a period of time when much more of the landmass was exposed it's more likely that the Island was a trading outpost for a much larger civilization located in one or more regions away from the Mediteranean proper. In much the same manner, but on a much larger scale as Santorini was to the Minoans. And no, Theira is not Atlantis. [arrgh, just having to use that word makes me ill]
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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NIKASS
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 26-Jun-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Jun-2007 at 17:12 |
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Well, to begin with Plato isn't the only source for mention of a lost civilization. Of course there are other sources that mention other civilizations, but Plato is the only one legit source for Atlantis! Show me somebody else. Having said that, dioudurus describes Atlantis as being next to Libya..hintMalta. 2nd, most classical Greek Scholars disagree with you on the dating. Name me one please. I want referencesalways references with me. The geologic record disagrees with you as well. On what do they disagree with me? Be more precise. I never said that there werent old civilizations in America. Just that Atlantis is in Mediterranean Sea. Thats all. Think about it; the center of the world in Atlantic Ocean.I dont think so. You know what med sea means? Mediterranean. Middle earth. The center of earth. Thats all they knew about it. Show me one reference where any of the classic knew anything about America. There is no reason why a civilization couldn't have had an out post in the Atlantic. When at what time? Plato never mentioned any civilization in Atlantic. Thats all I care. He said that Atlantis is in Mediterenean. I can read Ancient greek. You cant. Sorry thats reality!
Why does it have to be Atlantis then? So far none has been proven to be as old as Atlantis. Malta has the oldest free standing structures in the world. Over 7,000 years old |
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red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Jun-2007 at 23:24 |
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The geologic record disagrees with you as well. On what do they disagree with me? Be more precise. I never said that there werent old civilizations in America. Just that Atlantis is in Mediterranean Sea. Thats all. Think about it; the center of the world in Atlantic Ocean.I dont think so. You know what med sea means? Mediterranean. Middle earth. The center of earth. Thats all they knew about it. Show me one reference where any of the classic knew anything about America. There is no reason why a civilization couldn't have had an out post in the Atlantic. When at what time? Plato never mentioned any civilization in Atlantic. Thats all I care. He said that Atlantis is in Mediterenean. I can read Ancient greek. You cant. Sorry thats reality!
The geologic record is an it, not a "they" and "it" is the history of the Earth recorded in the Earth itself, rocks, sediments etc. And if you read the rest of the post you will see that I was as precise as I could get[unless you want to buy me a subscription to J stor
 ] Only joking. And reading on, You will see that I referred to the Spanish and African Coast.You were the only one who mentioned America, I didn't.
Dude, you are chasing a Phantom! Atlantis as Plato portrays it did not exist. he was taking license with an ages old tale. There are many legitimate references to an older civilization, and non that I recall refer to any thing called Atlantis.
And besides, where, is it written that Plato is the last and only word. Evidence! Considering that "Atlantis" sunk, hard evidence doesn't exist. So any suitable ruins dated at about 9-10,000 bce could be said to be Atlantis. As there would be no evidence of anything else. But they wouldn't be "Atlantis" because.........It did not exist. However, an older civilization, dated to about 9-10,000, did exist in other parts of the world.
And you are exactly right, I can't read ancient Greek, I guess that means I can't have a superior attitude too.
 That's fine with me. I have an open mind and you don't. Sorry that's reality.Edited by red clay - 27-Jun-2007 at 23:31 |
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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edgewaters
Sultan 
Snake in the Grass-Banned Joined: 13-Mar-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 2394 |
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Posted: 28-Jun-2007 at 01:41 |
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Uhm ... there's nothing going back that far that could be termed a "civilization" unless you're going to get really liberal with the term and say that a tribal settlement like Catal Hoyuk - which was more or less just something like a single pueblo - constituted a "civilization". As for dates, exactly who was supposed to be keeping track of all those intervening years? It certainly couldn't have been the Egyptians. They weren't civilized back that far, and didn't have a calendar until 2700 BC nor writing until 3100 BC. I think Plato was just using some poetic license to emphasize that he meant a really long time ago, some time before Greek civilization. But I wouldn't put much stock in his actual numbers. Although I fully agree with your general premise to reject the Edgar Cayce nonsense, and I do believe Plato was referring to a Meditteranean island civilization that fluorished prior to Greek civilization. Probably Plato's Atlantis is a mythologized and foggy remembrance of the Minoans. Edited by edgewaters - 28-Jun-2007 at 01:56 |
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NIKASS
Immortal Guard
Joined: 26-Jun-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-Jun-2007 at 05:41 |
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The geologic record is an it, not a "they" and "it" is the history of the Earth recorded in the Earth itself, rocks, sediments etc. The geologist record is written by they not IT. Its the same as saying that a rifle killed kenedy. No my friend a humen killed him not the gun. The record will say what people say. Now, I am a scientist and I go by facts. Please show me where are they (it) disagreeing with me? Give details. And if you read the rest of the post you will see that I was as precise as I could get [unless you want to buy me a subscription to J stor Where were you precise? Did you reference your comments? Listen; I am a scientist and I only work with facts and references, not opinions. I dont care about opinions, not even my own! You were the only one who mentioned America, I didn't. Well. There is no reason why a civilization couldn't have had an out post in the Atlantic. You said Atlantic. Then you should have been more precise.
Dude, you are chasing a Phantom! Atlantis as Plato portrays it did not exist. he was taking license with an ages old tale. How do you know that I am chasing a Phantom? Because you say so it doesnt make itufff, one more time.... facts, prove it to me. There are many legitimate references to an older civilization, and non that I recall refer to any thing called Atlantis. There are many of them and I can show you many of them talk about Atlantis. To name one. Dioudurus Silicus. Talks about Amazons that lived next to Atlanteans. And besides, where, is it written that Plato is the last and only word. Evidence! Who said that he was the last one? You should read my the comment more carefully; Of course there are other sources that mention other civilizations, but Plato is the only one legit source for Atlantis! Show me somebody else. Having said that, dioudurus describes Atlantis as being next to Libya..hintMalta
I said he is the only one LEGIT!!!! Considering that "Atlantis" sunk, hard evidence doesn't exist. So any suitable ruins dated at about 9-10,000 bce could be said to be Atlantis. As there would be no evidence of anything else. But they wouldn't be "Atlantis" because.........It did not exist. However, an older civilization, dated to about 9-10,000, did exist in other parts of the world. Well, there is the description of Plato. Its worth shot. What do we have to loose?! He describes the Area around MALTA> Youre saying it didnt exist. I am saying it did. Well there is only one way to find out. Explore his work and pinpoint the location. And you are exactly right, I can't read ancient Greek, I guess that means I can't have a superior attitude too. Correct you dont speak and I do. Actually that makes me open minded not you. I know a language more than you (I speak 9 of them) which is more knowledgemore knowledge means wider horizonits all about MATHEMATICS. Listen, as I previously told you; I am a scientist and I only go by hard evidence. When you talk with me you better do your homework. If you continue with these kind of comments I will not answer your questions. Sorry nothing personal. Anyway have a look at these images, ho knows it may change your mind about the PHANDOM of Plato; http://www.superatlantis.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/CONCETRIC_RINGS.jpg http://www.superatlantis.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/KOMPLET-ULTASOUND.jpg http://www.superatlantis.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/atlantis.jpg And there are more where these came from. NIKASS |
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Flipper
Arch Duke 
Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-Jun-2007 at 16:48 |
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Many of these charlatans NIKASS are scientologists that love to take advantage of this myth. About 13 years ago a book about Atlantis fell into my hands. I was firstly excited reading it. Afterwards when I decided to read the real text i realized how much bullsh*t is made up. I don't get it where they get those fantasies from.
If not Malta somewhere nearby for sure...But the observation is very correct. By the way...We know that Attiki, previously known as Aktiki has been inhabited from very early days. Some fishing rods and other equipment found are 7000 years old. However, from Platos time, 9000 years back is really early...Did Athens actually exist in a form of a millitary power or an organized state to be the one to fight against Atlantis? Is there any evidence that such thing existed so early? The Athenians considered themselves natives but how much back in time does a "native" refer to? |
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va! |
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Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006 Location: Flipper HQ Online Status: Offline Posts: 1813 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-Jun-2007 at 16:50 |
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Where are those rings found???  |
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va! |
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NIKASS
Immortal Guard
Joined: 26-Jun-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-Jun-2007 at 19:44 |
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There where it suppose to be; in MALTA. Mediterranean Sea means the middle of Earth. It was the center of the world at that time. Where is the middle of this middle earth, (Middle of Med Sea, precisely in MALTA.) Look, the thing with me is that I read ancient Greek in a way that no many people can. How it supposed to be read. Everyday that I read something in ancient Greek I discover something new. Dioudurs Silicus tells us where precisely the Amazons were. He states that the queen Myrina build three heaps of earth in honor of her women warrior. I followed his description and exactly where he tells us I found the three heaps: http://www.superatlantis.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/trident.jpg Now, he also talks about the marsh tritonis, the lake. I followed his lead and I found that too. http://www.superatlantis.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ship.jpg The scary thing is that there is a massive mosaic under water.a replica of the ancient world at the time of Atlantis. Its so beautiful too see the pyramids (those pyramids gota be old), the Atlantis City itself, its kind of damaged, but you can see the rings, the mount AtlasSicily was surrounding Atlantis from three side. Here have a look at only the Pillars of Hercules. A ship with two Pillars of Hercules. A head on a stick tripod. Also pay attention at the eye on the ships emblem! http://www.superatlantis.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ship.jpg Peace bro, NIKAS.S |
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Mumbloid
Knight 
Joined: 04-Jun-2007 Location: Denmark Online Status: Offline Posts: 97 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 06:35 |
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WHAT AMAZONS AT MALTA? do you have any reference?
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The future keeps the past alive.
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red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 18:36 |
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Amazons on Malta?
This is an interesting article that is an answer to some of Nikass foundations for his hypothesis.
In Etruscan MALTA = Greek ATLAS? Analysis of an impossible hypothesis...
Fecha Saturday, 24 March a las Tema Noticias / News In Etruscan MALTA = Greek ATLAS?Analysis of an impossible hypothesisBy Georgeos Daz-MontexanoThe investigator Alberto Nikas has proposed a hypothesis on Atlantis that he considers to be revolutionist. This hypothesis is sustained in a supposed erroneous reading, or the other way round, of the name of the island of MALTA, which, on having been written in Etruscan, from right hand to left side, a Greek could confuse with ATLAS.
This hypothesis is untenable, from the epigraphical a point of view. It is a hypothesis that has been sustained in several erroneous assumptions due to a scarce knowledge of Greek and Etruscan Epigraphy previous to the century V BC, or, previous to the times of Soln... The Etruscans were always writing from right hand to left side that, consequently, the only possible way of which a Greek should find a name written in Etruscan, who could confuse with the Greek word ATLAS, would be finding the following sequence: A-T-L-A-S, but as the Etruscan was writing from right hand to left side, actually this word, in the Etruscan language, it would have a sound similar to SLTA. It is impossible that a Greek could confuse an Etruscan word with the sound of MALTA for ATLAS, because this supposed Etruscan word, MALTA written from right hand to left side - according to the Etruscan custom - a Greek would see her as ATLAM, never as ATLAS, for the simple reason that her M Etruscan was an almost the same one that M Greek, and in any case a Greek might not confuse one M Etruscan with one S Greek.  Then, the only Etruscan text that a Greek might confuse with ATLAS, might be only an Etruscan word as S-A-L-T-A, or, SLTA, which, on having been written from right hand to left side, before the eyes of a Greek who writes and reads from left side to right hand, it might seem that ATLAS is reading the word, when actually it is a question of the name SLTA. In this case the confusion would be possible, because her S Etruscan, it is the same that her S Greek. A name as MALTA, written with Etruscan alphabet, would be read then by a Greek as ATLAM, supposing that the Greek author was so awkward of not knowing that the writing is from right hand to left side. The Greeks of the ancient times - previous to Soln - were writing in both directions, and they knew when a word was written from right hand to left side, or from left side to right hand, only by the form and the direction that the lettering presents, since almost the whole Etruscan alphabet was the same that the Greek of those times. Consequently, the most probable thing is that a Greek of the times previous to the century V BC (epoch of Soln) had read these supposed Etruscan words exactly in his correct form. That is to say, that if this Greek saw writing in Etruscan, from right hand to left side, SLTA, he would know that he was from right hand to left side, for the form of the lettering, and the direction that these present, then this anonymous Greek author would have read SLTA, NOT ATLAS. And if he had seen an Etruscan word with the name of MALTA, written from right hand to left side, this Greek would have read correctly MALTA, and not ATLAM. Since he wants that it is, it is demonstrated that it is impossible that a Greek of the times previous to the century V BC could have confused the name of MALTA with that of ATLAS, first, because her M Etruscan age almost the same one that her M Greek, and it was not just as her S Greek, for what still supposing a possible error, in the reading, and that the Greek author was so awkward of not seeing that the word was written from right hand to left side, in spite of assuming like possibly this supposed absurdity, this so awkward Greek would have thought then that the Etruscan word MALTA would be in reality ATLAM, but NOT ATLAS, because M Etruscan Greek could not be confused with S not for more awkward him and donkey of the Greek authors, and of course, the Greeks never wrote the name of ATLAS finished in M, or as ATLAM. Summing up: 1. The name of MALTA supposedly written in Etruscan would be read by an ancient Greek, previous to Soln, or as MALTA, or as ATLAM, but never as ATLAS. 2. The only name written in Etruscan, which a Greek writer might have interpreted erroneously just as the name ATLAS (supposing that this Greek author was so awkward that he did not see that the Etruscan name was written from right hand to left side) would be SLTA, that read the other way round, then it would be as ATLAS. |
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 18:55 |
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From the same author, in answer to someone espousing Nikass theories-
[It's always advisable to view the other side of things as well.]
On the other hand, how explain you (or his admired Mr. Nikas) that all the commentators of Plato - from the disciples of same Academy that founded Plato himself to the most famous authors of the beginnings of the Christianity - always affirmed that Atlantis were outside the Pillars of Hercules (not inside), that is, in the Atlantic pelagus? For example, the most famous commentator of Plato, Proclus, says that the Atlantis Island was in the outer sea, in the Atlantic Pelagus; and same said all, I repeat: all! the authors of the antiquity!. You believe (or his admired "expert" in Old Greek Classic, Mr Nikas) who none of the Greek authors from the antiquity knew how to translate or to interpret the phrase of the Timaeus pro tou stomatos, before the mouth of the Pillars of Hercules? Perhaps you believe that Mr. Nikas is the unique one who really knows to read Greek the old one, more even than the Greek authors himself of the antiquity, or more even than the disciples himself of Plato... Since or I have often said to you, you are free to believe in any idea, or belief, and if you prefer to think that Mr Nikas knows to read, or to understand, the Old Greek Classic, better even than the disciples himself of Plato, and better also than all the old authors whom commentaries did about the Plato's Atlantis, by all means, that you are in your right to believe in this idea, by very absurd and illogical which she is, but I think that most of the human beings they will always prefer to believe all the opposite. Edited by red clay - 29-Jun-2007 at 18:56 |
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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elenos
Chieftain 
Joined: 13-Jun-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1457 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 09:29 |
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Where, oh
where, is my Atlantis |
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elenos
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