Your views on Communism

Originally posted by Timotheus Capitalism works if it is let run like the well-oiled machine it should be

Not for the majority.

Won't the Africans be needing cheap labour when they become economies like Ireland's or America's? Where are they going to find the people do do the jobs that individuals in a developed society refuse to do?

Everybody cannot become rich under capitalism, everybody cannot even get above the poverty line under capitalism. Yes, it promotes the betterment of oneself through personal incentives, but the benefit of one in an economic sense simply cannot happen without the detriment to another. Look at 'developing' countries, all striving to gain the level of prosperity that most western societies have gained, ie become a tertiary service economy. The problem is that this level of development cannot be reasonably sustained across the globe, as the presently developed economies rely on cheap imports, labour and food from the 'Developing' nations to sustain their level of prosperity. Where is all the labour, the cheap food and the imports going to come from if everybody is already past that stage of development?

Originally posted by red clay Originally posted by Zaitsev That was talking about hierarchy. It doesn't really apply.     Spoken like so many when confronted with the simple reality of a flawed and and failed system.

That's an interesting approach to take considering:
a) communism has never been implemented
b) capitalism is fundamentally flawed on a practical and moral level

In my personal opinion,all these theories since they are man-made,they are ,naturally,defective,since man is not a perfect being.The problem with socialism-communism as well as that of libertanianism is that they are ,simply, nothing more than economical theories.They ignore the previous social  structure ,social concerns and problems. The rising of the living standard alone cannot solve social problems,as the Yugoslavian case showed.The Yugoslav Communist model was an approach different than that of the Soviet Union.Yet,it failed to eliminate social/historical problems and issues between the different populations, which showed the way to the Yugoslav Wars.Of course,one would argue that if Tito was alive,these things would never happen.But hey,system's credibility and effectiveness is only tested when the great leader passes away.

Does it work? Did Lenin mess it up? Did Stalin forever tarnish the entire system?

It can, yes and yes.

I think Communism is not possible at this time. However, as technology progresses and population increases Communism becomes alot more practical and desirable. I believe morally a socialist system is superior to capitalism.

I agree with you in that in the future communist societies will be more desireable than capitalist societies. I also believe that communalism is morally superior, I mean Jesus would be classified as a communist.

The majority of damage done to the reputation of the system comes from American propaganda during the Cold War, which attached a stigma to the whole system in the eyes of many.

I know which is a shame since America could definetily prosper from more socialist programs.

The idea that everybody has equal wealth, belongings, etc, goes against human nature.

That isn't exactly communism, in a truly communist society everyone has equal property, zero, zilch, zippo. In said society, property is shared amongst all members of the society and has no additional value other than its purpose and use. In a communist society you take what you need from others and give to others what they need. This is actually keeping in tradition to how tribal societies function.

Humanity itself is inherently unequal!

Which is why people should have complementary roles in society instead of equal roles. Your telling me that it's fair in a capitalist system that a lawyer gets paid 100k+ a year while a garbage truck driver makes like 30k a year?

Capitalism says that you can only have a good paying job if you exploit the more vulnerable members of society. Capitalism is a parasite on the poor, and because their exists a breaking point capitalism will bring about it's own destruction.

The invisible hand will make all grow richer, like an ever growing tree.

Except that we exist in a world that has finite resources. I hate this analogy, capitalism is just a means to distribute wealth, (like communism), the wealth of the world is in the form of a percentage not numbers. It's not the US has 10 trillion dollars in surplus and increased to 12 trillion dollars. It's more like the US has 20% of the wealth of the world and increased to 22%, forcing Japan to drop from 5% to 3%.

You don't get something from nothing, for one person to increase wealth another has to decrease wealth, and the incentive is for those who "cheat the system" by moving to nations where there is no government intervention, so that they can engage in all kinds of horrendous unethical acts, child labor, poor working conditions, 18 hour work days and the like.

The only way that capitalism can work for the benefit of people is if there was one world government, that was in no way corrupted by business owners. Communism however works better the smaller the scale, which is why it failed in russia and it failed in china.

That was talking about hierarchy. It doesn't really apply.

There's no rule under Communism that says all people fill the same role nor, in most cases, are they necessarily completely economically equal. Why does the fact that someone is athletic or good looking mean they should gain advantage over others who weren't so fortunate?

As I have already mentioned many times, all types of government work perfectly or sufficiently fine. It's the people that mess it up, like religion.

Originally posted by Paul ...where birth is worth more than talent.

You said this for capitalism or pre-capitalist societies?