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Paris of Troy, was he a brave or coward?

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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Paris of Troy, was he a brave or coward?
    Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 21:42
I watched the movie "Troy' long time ago. In the movie, Paris brought Helen of Sparta and made her his wife. This angered the Spartans and with Agamemnon's ambition for Troy... eventually caused the Trojan War. When the King of Sparta challenged a duel to Paris, he gladly accepts. However, Paris was beaten badly... and clanged to his brother, Hector, to protect him. Though Spartan King urged Paris to finish the duel, Hector could not ignore Paris' pled and finished the duel for Paris by killing the King of Sparta. I know that may not have necessary happened, but was Paris a coward? Or was he just forgotten hero who was overshadowed and discredited due to the Greek invaders?
     
   
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 22:21
Paris, by endangering his whole nation for the sake of his little infatuation, is a selfish little brat, in my opinion.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 01:11
Helen was far behind?
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 01:28
Helen's behaviour was also very bad. Though I consider Paris' to be worse, because as a guest he was violating the goodwill of his host. 
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 06:54

Inciting war and killing thousands of people for the sake of one woman is romantic beyond reason, I can't help but applaud it. Clap

That being said, it's doubtful whether this war was actually waged for the sake of Helen, it sounds like another one of history's many weak pretenses for justifying conquest.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 08:03
Originally posted by Constantine XI

Helen's behaviour was also very bad. Though I consider Paris' to be worse, because as a guest he was violating the goodwill of his host. 



i could not add anything else


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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 14:40
Originally posted by Reginmund

Inciting war and killing thousands of people for the sake of one woman is romantic beyond reason, I can't help but applaud it. Clap

That being said, it's doubtful whether this war was actually waged for the sake of Helen, it sounds like another one of history's many weak pretenses for justifying conquest.
 
I agree. Althougn I still believe that Paris should have had some self-control... I can't help to note that compared to other conflicts due to hatred, greed and other selfish reasons... I suppose fighing for love makes sense above all others...Embarrassed
     
   
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 16:48
     He should only have taken her if a war with Sparta and its allies would be of any benefit to Troy. He didn't think about it from the perspective of the state, in fact he didn't think about it from any perspective other than his own. That was his downfall.


Originally posted by pekau

I suppose fighing for love makes sense above all others...Embarrassed


     Yes but when the risks of such a love involve all-out war, the only love you should have is for your country and the well-being of its inhabitants. Paris acted like a child, not a prince, and he was serving himself at the expense of the state, when he should have been doing the exact opposite.


Edited by ArmenianSurvival - 07-Feb-2007 at 16:49
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  Quote Lepidodendron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 02:47
Originally posted by pekau

I know that may not have necessary happened, but was Paris a coward? Or was he just forgotten hero who was overshadowed and discredited due to the Greek invaders?


Historically, he may well have been some local hero who was incorporated into the Iliad to became the archetypical bad guy. He portrays all kinds of qualities a classical Greek would despise: he is driven by carnal desire; he disrespects Menelaos, whose guest he was, by stealing his wife; he is overcome by fear when he has to fight Menelaos. The opposite goes for his brother Hector, who is portrayed in a sympathetic way, being a sensible and brave man, and more than a match for most Greek warriors throughout.

By the way, in the Iliad Paris was rescued by Aphrodite and Menelaos wasn't killed at all. The moviemakers just made that up. I deplore the way the gods were written out of the story, it makes the movie a very mediocre one.
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 14:56
Originally posted by Lepidodendron

Originally posted by pekau

I know that may not have necessary happened, but was Paris a coward? Or was he just forgotten hero who was overshadowed and discredited due to the Greek invaders?


Historically, he may well have been some local hero who was incorporated into the Iliad to became the archetypical bad guy. He portrays all kinds of qualities a classical Greek would despise: he is driven by carnal desire; he disrespects Menelaos, whose guest he was, by stealing his wife; he is overcome by fear when he has to fight Menelaos. The opposite goes for his brother Hector, who is portrayed in a sympathetic way, being a sensible and brave man, and more than a match for most Greek warriors throughout.

By the way, in the Iliad Paris was rescued by Aphrodite and Menelaos wasn't killed at all. The moviemakers just made that up. I deplore the way the gods were written out of the story, it makes the movie a very mediocre one.
 
Damn the Hollywood... I wondered about that when Meneloas was killed in the movie, since in "Odyssey", the tale talks about the grand meeting with Meneloas in Sparta with Helen... now freed from the spell of the Goddess.
     
   
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 15:01
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

     He should only have taken her if a war with Sparta and its allies would be of any benefit to Troy. He didn't think about it from the perspective of the state, in fact he didn't think about it from any perspective other than his own. That was his downfall.


Originally posted by pekau

I suppose fighing for love makes sense above all others...Embarrassed


     Yes but when the risks of such a love involve all-out war, the only love you should have is for your country and the well-being of its inhabitants. Paris acted like a child, not a prince, and he was serving himself at the expense of the state, when he should have been doing the exact opposite.
 
Very true. It's a sad thing that love was the reason for thousands of death. Of course, Trojan War was more than just Helen...
     
   
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  Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 07:52
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 00:34

I used to think that Helen was just a whore myself, but(if you go with the original story) she is said to have had a child with Menelaus, even though she never loved him or enjoyed being his Queen, and that she actually fell in love with Paris. Now, if she was truely the most beautiful woman alive, i seriously doubt that any King would have been willing to lose possession of "that" under any circumstances.

Paris...i think was still being a tad bit "selfish", in that he..as a Prince of a Kingdom, put his peoples lives in "jeopardy"(if you will), by stealing the Queen of A Ruler of another Kingdom. A member of a nation's ruling family, is supposed to have the "well-being" of his people in mind at all times. He is supposed to be strong enough to keep is own personal desires "in check", secondary to his nation.

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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 00:49
Originally posted by Penelope

I used to think that Helen was just a whore myself, but(if you go with the original story) she is said to have had a child with Menelaus, even though she never loved him or enjoyed being his Queen, and that she actually fell in love with Paris. Now, if she was truely the most beautiful woman alive, i seriously doubt that any King would have been willing to lose possession of "that" under any circumstances.

Paris...i think was still being a tad bit "selfish", in that he..as a Prince of a Kingdom, put his peoples lives in "jeopardy"(if you will), by stealing the Queen of A Ruler of another Kingdom. A member of a nation's ruling family, is supposed to have the "well-being" of his people in mind at all times. He is supposed to be strong enough to keep is own personal desires "in check", secondary to his nation.

 
Ah, the youth are so misunderstood... (Just kiddingLOL)
 
I think so as well. But I think fighting for love is better than other less noble reasons, such as wealth and power. At least love is sincere... corruption for power, glory and wealth just looks ugly.
     
   
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 00:55
According to Odysseus by Homer, Telemachus (Son of Odysseus) talked to Menelaus and Helen... and Helen claimed that she fell for the spell of Aphrodite and she regretted her "kidnapping" by Paris, prince of Troy.
     
   
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