Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Paris of Troy, was he a brave or coward? Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 21:42 |
I watched the movie "Troy' long time ago. In the movie, Paris brought Helen of Sparta and made her his wife. This angered the Spartans and with Agamemnon's ambition for Troy... eventually caused the Trojan War. When the King of Sparta challenged a duel to Paris, he gladly accepts. However, Paris was beaten badly... and clanged to his brother, Hector, to protect him. Though Spartan King urged Paris to finish the duel, Hector could not ignore Paris' pled and finished the duel for Paris by killing the King of Sparta. I know that may not have necessary happened, but was Paris a coward? Or was he just forgotten hero who was overshadowed and discredited due to the Greek invaders?
|
Join us.
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 22:21 |
Paris, by endangering his whole nation for the sake of his little infatuation, is a selfish little brat, in my opinion.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 01:11 |
Helen was far behind?
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 01:28 |
Helen's behaviour was also very bad. Though I consider Paris' to be
worse, because as a guest he was violating the goodwill of his
host.
|
|
Reginmund
Arch Duke
Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 06:54 |
Inciting war and killing thousands of people for the sake of one woman is romantic beyond reason, I can't help but applaud it.
That being said, it's doubtful whether this war was actually waged for the sake of Helen, it sounds like another one of history's many weak pretenses for justifying conquest.
|
|
xi_tujue
Arch Duke
Atabeg
Joined: 19-May-2006
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1919
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 08:03 |
Originally posted by Constantine XI
Helen's behaviour was also very bad. Though I consider Paris' to be
worse, because as a guest he was violating the goodwill of his
host.
|
i could not add anything else
|
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 14:40 |
Originally posted by Reginmund
Inciting war and killing thousands of people for the sake of one woman is romantic beyond reason, I can't help but applaud it.
That being said, it's doubtful whether this war was actually waged for the sake of Helen, it sounds like another one of history's many weak pretenses for justifying conquest. |
I agree. Althougn I still believe that Paris should have had some self-control... I can't help to note that compared to other conflicts due to hatred, greed and other selfish reasons... I suppose fighing for love makes sense above all others...
|
Join us.
|
|
ArmenianSurvival
Chieftain
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 16:48 |
He should only have taken her if a war with Sparta and its allies
would be of any benefit to Troy. He didn't think about it from the
perspective of the state, in fact he didn't think about it from any
perspective other than his own. That was his downfall.
Originally posted by pekau
I suppose fighing for love makes sense above all others... |
Yes but when the risks of such a love involve
all-out war, the
only love you should have is for your country and the well-being of its
inhabitants. Paris acted like a child, not a prince, and he was serving
himself at the expense of the state, when he should have been doing the
exact opposite.
Edited by ArmenianSurvival - 07-Feb-2007 at 16:49
|
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance
Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
|
|
Lepidodendron
Samurai
Joined: 18-Dec-2006
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 128
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 02:47 |
Originally posted by pekau
I know that may not have necessary happened, but was Paris a coward? Or was he just forgotten hero who was overshadowed and discredited due to the Greek invaders? |
Historically, he may well have been some local hero who was incorporated into the Iliad to became the archetypical bad guy. He portrays all kinds of qualities a classical Greek would despise: he is driven by carnal desire; he disrespects Menelaos, whose guest he was, by stealing his wife; he is overcome by fear when he has to fight Menelaos. The opposite goes for his brother Hector, who is portrayed in a sympathetic way, being a sensible and brave man, and more than a match for most Greek warriors throughout. By the way, in the Iliad Paris was rescued by Aphrodite and Menelaos wasn't killed at all. The moviemakers just made that up. I deplore the way the gods were written out of the story, it makes the movie a very mediocre one.
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 14:56 |
Originally posted by Lepidodendron
Originally posted by pekau
I know that may not have necessary happened, but was Paris a coward? Or was he just forgotten hero who was overshadowed and discredited due to the Greek invaders? |
Historically, he may well have been some local hero who was incorporated into the Iliad to became the archetypical bad guy. He portrays all kinds of qualities a classical Greek would despise: he is driven by carnal desire; he disrespects Menelaos, whose guest he was, by stealing his wife; he is overcome by fear when he has to fight Menelaos. The opposite goes for his brother Hector, who is portrayed in a sympathetic way, being a sensible and brave man, and more than a match for most Greek warriors throughout.
By the way, in the Iliad Paris was rescued by Aphrodite and Menelaos wasn't killed at all. The moviemakers just made that up. I deplore the way the gods were written out of the story, it makes the movie a very mediocre one.
|
Damn the Hollywood... I wondered about that when Meneloas was killed in the movie, since in "Odyssey", the tale talks about the grand meeting with Meneloas in Sparta with Helen... now freed from the spell of the Goddess.
|
Join us.
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 15:01 |
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival
He should only have taken her if a war with Sparta and its allies would be of any benefit to Troy. He didn't think about it from the perspective of the state, in fact he didn't think about it from any perspective other than his own. That was his downfall.
Originally posted by pekau
I suppose fighing for love makes sense above all others... |
Yes but when the risks of such a love involve all-out war, the only love you should have is for your country and the well-being of its inhabitants. Paris acted like a child, not a prince, and he was serving himself at the expense of the state, when he should have been doing the exact opposite.
|
Very true. It's a sad thing that love was the reason for thousands of death. Of course, Trojan War was more than just Helen...
|
Join us.
|
|
Batu
Baron
Joined: 31-Aug-2006
Location: Barad-dur
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 405
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 07:52 |
US attacked Iraq becouse Saddam and Laura Bush were caught in the same bed.how unlucky.
|
A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
|
|
Penelope
Chieftain
Alia Atreides
Joined: 26-Aug-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1042
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 00:34 |
I used to think that Helen was just a whore myself, but(if you go with the original story) she is said to have had a child with Menelaus, even though she never loved him or enjoyed being his Queen, and that she actually fell in love with Paris. Now, if she was truely the most beautiful woman alive, i seriously doubt that any King would have been willing to lose possession of "that" under any circumstances.
Paris...i think was still being a tad bit "selfish", in that he..as a Prince of a Kingdom, put his peoples lives in "jeopardy"(if you will), by stealing the Queen of A Ruler of another Kingdom. A member of a nation's ruling family, is supposed to have the "well-being" of his people in mind at all times. He is supposed to be strong enough to keep is own personal desires "in check", secondary to his nation.
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 00:49 |
Originally posted by Penelope
I used to think that Helen was just a whore myself, but(if you go with the original story) she is said to have had a child with Menelaus, even though she never loved him or enjoyed being his Queen, and that she actually fell in love with Paris. Now, if she was truely the most beautiful woman alive, i seriously doubt that any King would have been willing to lose possession of "that" under any circumstances.
Paris...i think was still being a tad bit "selfish", in that he..as a Prince of a Kingdom, put his peoples lives in "jeopardy"(if you will), by stealing the Queen of A Ruler of another Kingdom. A member of a nation's ruling family, is supposed to have the "well-being" of his people in mind at all times. He is supposed to be strong enough to keep is own personal desires "in check", secondary to his nation. |
Ah, the youth are so misunderstood... (Just kidding )
I think so as well. But I think fighting for love is better than other less noble reasons, such as wealth and power. At least love is sincere... corruption for power, glory and wealth just looks ugly.
|
Join us.
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 00:55 |
According to Odysseus by Homer, Telemachus (Son of Odysseus) talked to Menelaus and Helen... and Helen claimed that she fell for the spell of Aphrodite and she regretted her "kidnapping" by Paris, prince of Troy.
|
Join us.
|
|