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The modern Australian military
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Knights View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 10:16
Originally posted by Leonidas

some more F-111 pictures taken at the latest 'Red flag' exercise in the US, Feb 2007





http://www.raaf.gov.au/exercises/redflag07/
 
Edit: link made clickable.

Leonidas, what exactly is the Red Flag operation? I have heard/read a bit about it, but do you have any further information? Also, what was the outcome of the recent one?





Edited by Hellios - 18-Mar-2007 at 11:32
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Red Flag is like the air forces version of Top Gun. A training exercise where American squadrons and allied squadrons go to fight and learn new tactics and abilities. Theres a permanent party aggressor squadron made up of old f-16 and f-15 that they are put up against usually in a difficult scenario. It should be noted too that the Raptorhttp://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041725 made its first Red Flag appearance with those F-111. I believe wiki has a article on Red Flag that might give a total overview.
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 04:12
Does anyone know if Australia has or is getting the HSV X1 Wave piercing Catamaran? It is an excellent multi-purpose vessel, for troop/vehicle transport, helicopter facilities.etc.

Over-sized illustration: http://www.ussendurance.org/Catamaran%20MCM%20ship.JPG





I know the US Navy have them, and wondered if they were marketed globally.
 
Edit: Formatted.


Edited by Hellios - 18-Mar-2007 at 11:32
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 04:19
we leased one similar vessel during timor and the feed back IIRC was really good. But there are no plans to buy any.



11th May, 2001
HMAS JERVIS BAY STANDS DOWN AFTER A DISTINGUISHED NAVAL CAREER

At a ceremony in Hobart today HMAS Jervis Bay (045), the Incat 86m wavepiercing catamaran built for commercial service, completed her distinguished mission with the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) following a two-year charter. She was commissioned for logistics operations between Australia and East Timor in May 1999.

Since her debut with the navy HMAS Jervis Bay, Incat hull number 045, has completed 107 trips between Darwin and Dili, transporting personnel and equipment as part of the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET).
INCAT

some more
Jervis Bay Commanding Officer Jon Dudley has seen the benefits of the catamaran in real world situations. "The first time we made a run into Dili, the port was totally trashed," said Dudley. "There was lot of confusion, a lot of things strewn on the wharf, and, there were no port services. With nothing to help us, we were still able to land troops quickly. The catamaran definitely gave us a big advantage."

HMAS Jervis Bay stunned US Seventh Fleet personnel during peacekeeping operations around East Timor in 1999 producing speeds nearing forty-five knots, more than twice the speed of any such vessel in the US Navy, and on arrival in East Timor she unloaded at a pace the new class of navy assault ships cant match.


Edited by Hellios - 18-Mar-2007 at 11:33
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 04:28
A dolphin leaping in front of HMAS Warramunga as the ship makes her approach to HMAS Westralia for a Replenishment at Sea.

an award winning navy photo for LSPH Joanne Edwards


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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 04:32
The picture posted above of the Wedgetail, has a bit of a story behind it...the Wedgetails are very late in coming to Australia due to obstacles in Project Wedgetail. They use the Boeing 707 frame, and are designed for early detection purposes. We have ordered 6 of the aircraft. "Boeing has announced an 18 month delay, due to problems integrating radar and sensor computer systems, and will not deliver the aircraft until early 2009".



We have several other aircraft on order and in production, part of a master plan to upgrade into a new generation air force.

There are up to 100 F-35 Lightnings (Lockheed Martin) in the assembly line waiting on the green light. There has been much debate as to whether the F-35 would be more suitable than Eurofighters or F-22 Raptors, but the defence minister seems pretty stern on his decision right now.
 
 
Internal weapons:
 
External weapons:



24 Super Hornets (FA/18F) are on order, phase out the older fighters, but act as precursors to the fighters - to be decided upon - coming in 2012.

 
The one on the right:


(Sorry - only just remembered that Leonidas already posted this image, but I'll leave it for reference anyway)


Edited by Knights - 19-Mar-2007 at 01:39
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 17:03
Impressive...
 
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 01:44
Hellios, Leonidas et al,
 
Which 'under the microscope' fighter do you think Australia should purchase to phase out F-111 'pigs' & Mirages?

A) F-35 Lightning? (current favourite of the gov't)


B) Eurofighter?


C) F-22 Raptor?


Edited by Hellios - 19-Mar-2007 at 22:33
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 04:31
Originally posted by Knights

Hellios, Leonidas et al,
Which 'under the microscope' fighter do you think Australia should purchase to phase out F-111 'pigs' & Mirages?
A) F-35 Lightning? (current favourite of the gov't)
B) Eurofighter?
C) F-22 Raptor?
 
Ill take C and if the US dont sell them to us, then B with a big 'your not our friend' hissy fit.

The Raptor can own the air (for the next couple of decades eeasy) but you'll still need to a multi role under it, in a Hi-Lo mix. The lo part can either be a F-35 or the F-18E.  Eventually the F-22 will become modified for strike.

While the Eurofighter isnt as convincing as the Raptor in air to air, it still can stand up to a flanker and burn the ground if thats what we want.

I am dead-set against the F-35 in a non mixed fleet. No point having great close support - bomb truck if you don't control the air. The F-35 while being an ok fighter will get its arse kicked by the growing number of advanced derivatives of SU-37/30 type fighters that our neighbors are buying up*  or making/assembling themselves (PRC, India).

*Indonesia has 4 unarmed planes, and waiting for the cash to buy more, Malaysia (18 Su-30), Vietnam (16) and planning more. While Thailand is thinking about it.

BTW the F-22 & Euro aren't under the microscope, our government is only looking at 1 plane, hence why some are. Angry
 


Edited by Hellios - 19-Mar-2007 at 22:38
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 05:10
I agree with you Leonidas, we should launch a bid for the F-22s, but if we are not granted the ability to purchase them, we revert to the Eurofighter II. I don't even think the French Rafale should be considered. I don't believe Australia should purchase JSFs like the F-35, we should look more into fighters and flankers.

Also, excuse me on my error, it is actually the lobbyists/groups and critics who have hurled at the idea of purchasing F-35s over Raptors or Eurofighters. The government seem strong on their decision on buying the Lightning to replace our aging fleet of Hornets.
 
Quotes from our Defence Minister Brendan Nelson:

"The senior military advice given to our chief of defence is the United States would not sell the F/A-22 Raptor to Australia."
"It will not cover all of our capabilities and, apart from anything else, the price and numbers that we need make it prohibitive."
"We are 1,000 per cent committed to the acquisition of the joint strike fighter. It is the correct aircraft for Australia,"

Basically, it does not look like Mr Nelson will be changing his mind any time soon...
These articles give some insight into what the situation at hand is...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/US-decisions-threaten-fighter-project/2006/08/04/1154198330441.html
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20556293-31037,00.html

All in all, we should ditch the plan to purchase F-35s and go for the Raptors!
If turned down, to Europe we head, for Eurofighters! Approve


PS. By SU/30 and Su/37 etc. do you mean the Sukhois? Sukhios are very formidable fighters, so if any friction arose in the near future, I think we would be needing Raptors/Eurofighters, not F-35s. Also, if the SU/47 comes into production and is up for purchase, the Aus Government should trial them, they just look so cool! Cool

Sukhoi SU/47:


Edited by Hellios - 19-Mar-2007 at 22:40
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Posts: 568 		  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 05:46
Kind of surprised you both say raptor. It doesnt support the ground well and would figure Australia would want a better multipurpose aircraft. That and I'm biased and totally against the Raptor going to any country for a few yearsTongue. I would pick the Eurofighter or a newer Russian aircraft in the SU class. 
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 06:06
Originally posted by Gundamor

Kind of surprised you both say raptor. It doesn't support the ground well and would figure Australia would want a better multipurpose aircraft. That and I'm biased and totally against the Raptor going to any country for a few yearsTongue. I would pick the Eurofighter or a newer Russian aircraft in the SU class. 

Such as the SU/34? They are very new, and another possible option (but not consideration by the govt...) for the RAAF.
Personally, I quite like the Russians Fighters, especially the new developments on the Sukhoi Su/27.
 
As I said, even the SU/47 is an option. They forward swept wings allow for unmatchable maneuverability, plus, the Russians and critics are pleased with its development, and further funding is going towards redesigning for production as a fully fledged war plane.


Edited by Hellios - 19-Mar-2007 at 22:42
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Posts: 568 		  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 07:17
Originally posted by Knights

Such as the SU/34? They are very new, and another possible option (but not consideration by the govt...) for the RAAF.
Personally, I quite like the Russians Fighters, especially the new developments on the Sukhoi Su/27.
 
As I said, even the SU/47 is an option. They forward swept wings allow for unmatchable maneuverability, plus, the Russians and critics are pleased with its development, and further funding is going towards redesigning for production as a fully fledged war plane.
 
Well the Su/47 is still a bit of question mark same kind of with SU-37. Some variant of them may be released but there's no time frame on when. Also It may require some finishing developmental funding help if Australia wanted to push these out on the line.

The SU-34 is more a front line bomber then fighter though if your talking of just replacing that capability it would be ok.

You would probably have to hold off on Russian aircraft right now or go with a smaller complement of Su-30MK for short term upgrading. See how they work in your Air force. Ask the Russians to give you the options you need. Its quite effective, versatile,cheap and like a car it can come fully loaded with what you want if you ask for it. They'll make a Su-30MKAus if you provide the money. This way you can see what the Russians do plan on making out of all these test aircraft they have. Or just go with the Eurofighter and have the british put chamelon on it. Tongue


Edited by Hellios - 19-Mar-2007 at 22:45
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 07:20
Eurofighter is definitely the way to go in that case. Chameleons would be an excellent bonus, and maybe they could make us a modification, the AUSfighter! Approve
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Posts: 1286 		  Quote Balaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 07:32
Some SASR.
 
Out the tailgate with equipment.
 
5-men dragout with equipment.
 
5-man dragout over North Western Australia (approx 10.000 ft).
 
Tandem HALO with full equipment & oxygen.
 
Lads waiting for their lift (East Timor).
 
Afghanistan.
 
Operation SLIPPER, Afghanistan.
 
Operation SLIPPER, Afghanistan.
 
Operation ANACONDA, Afghanistan.
 
Operation ANACONDA, Afghanistan.
 


Edited by Hellios - 19-Mar-2007 at 22:29
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 08:05
Originally posted by Knights

I agree with you Leonidas, we should launch a bid for the F-22s, but if we are not granted the ability to purchase them, we revert to the Eurofighter II. I don't even the French Rafale should be considered. I don't believe Australia should purchase JSFs like the F-35, we should look more into fighters and flankers.
 
The Rafael isn't big enough, basically you get a less capable eurofighter that may end up being used by only 1 other air force. sorry for the delay i had to move a fridge

Originally posted by Knights

Also, excuse me on my error, it is actually the lobbyists/groups and critics who have hurled at the idea of purchasing F-35s over Raptors or Eurofighters.
 
and the opposition (who might get voted in time to change things), and an ex air force commander is getting upset. its not just the choice of planes they are upset about, rather the way the government is choosing one plane without a proper contest.

Originally posted by Knights

The government seem strong on their decision on buying the Lightning to replace our aging fleet of Hornets. Here is some quotes from our Defence Minister Brendan Nelson:
 
oh im very familar with that twit, basically there is no question, no debate just trust us we are right.
Originally posted by Gundamor

Kind of surprised you both say raptor. It doesnt support the ground well and would figure Australia would want a better multipurpose aircraft. That and I'm biased and totally against the Raptor going to any country for a few yearsTongue. I would pick the Eurofighter or a newer Russian aircraft in the SU class. 
 
Yeah i qualified my support in hi-lo fleet, the SU type are not an option our governmet will ever make. Its 99% politics, while also operating something equal to our neighbors would make it a numbers game, which we don't like playing.
Originally posted by Knights

All in all, we should ditch the plan to purchase F-35s and go for the Raptors! If turned down, to Europe we head, for Eurofighters!
 
if we go the F-22 it would have to be in a mixed fleet, as Gundamor points out the F-22 cant bomb. So the F-35 or (the now ordered super hornet) can plug that gap. The government wanted a one platform fleet for logistical savings, that argument is no gone when the bought the Super hornet. The Eurofighter would be the only western plane we could operate in a one plane only fleet as it can do both tasks, minus the F-35 avionics/stealth.


Edited by Hellios - 19-Mar-2007 at 22:50
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our f-18's over Melbourne at the Avalon air show 2007 (19 march).
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Wow, nice pictures Leonidas Cool
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 06:29
Originally posted by Balaam


 
dont you love the little rider. i first saw the US troops with them and thought how lazy. LOL
What you call those again?

good pictures Balaam.


Edited by Hellios - 21-Mar-2007 at 17:20
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 08:47
just before i go to bed, one more. (i'll edit in some more pictures + data and figures tomorrow) 

Precision munitions including guided bombs, JASSM & JDAM, and Popeyes (based on the post in the Turkish military thread).

19 Oct 2005.
 
The Commonwealth of Australia Department of Defence has awarded Boeing [NYSE:BA] a contract to provide the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) weapon system for the AIR 5409 Bomb Improvement Program.
 
"JDAM will provide the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) with all-weather, autonomous, accurate delivery of bombs against a broad spectrum of targets," said Rick Heerdt, JDAM program manager for Boeing. "The JDAM weapon system will greatly enhance the RAAF's ability to accurately and reliably engage a broad spectrum of targets using their existing F/A-18 aircraft."
 
JDAM was offered in response to the program's requirement for an upgraded weapon system for the Australian fleet of Boeing-built F/A-18 aircraft. The Company's offer included JDAM guidance kits, F/A-18 weapon system integration, and operational support. A GPS-aided, near-precision weapon, JDAM guidance kits are capable of guiding inventory warheads ranging in size from 500-2000 pounds and have been used extensively in global operations by the U.S. Air Force and Navy. Boeing 

F-18 with GBU-32 JDAM & GBU-16 laser-guided bomb + TSPI pod on wing tip:


Got lots of boring old iron bombs & small budget? Strap on these kits:
 
Common low cost guidance control unit for MK-83/BLU-110, MK-84 and BLU-109, sized to fit MK-82 form factor.
Strakes provide maneuverable airframe and full jettison and release envelope.
Highly integrated tail kit enhances JDAM affordability.
 
The JDAM family:
 
Edit: dead link (blank image) removed.


Edited by Hellios - 21-Mar-2007 at 17:41
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