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Topic ClosedLions vs. Tigers

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Poll Question: If lions and tigers were to have a deathmatch, who would win?
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    Posted: 18-Dec-2015 at 09:52
So I opened the thread and what do you guys do? You go right back at it.

Both of you need to take a long look at what your doing.

I deleted some of these posts. I just realized I would have to delete a lot more, so thread is locked again until you both grow up.

BTW Complaining about a mod on open forum will get you banned. If you have a problem with any staff, you complain by PM.

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2015 at 09:51
TigersForever has been banned permanently. Dual id's etc.

I have reopened this thread. It's up to you folks as to it staying unlocked.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2015 at 14:16
Thanks again.

Any ways, check this out...this is like the 6th account of a lion killing a bear with a single blow:


keepers save tigress from being killed:

4 dogs kill a big tiger at hagenbecks

Lion has the strength in striking to bare brains.

its interesting, since even lionesses has similar striking strength:

A lion kills a hybrid big cat, a jaguar crossed with a lion:

Some notes on how well beatty treated his animals, and mabel confirmed to have set up the fight in king of the jungle:

sultan vs nero

nice photo


these two look familiar, reported from other articles:







Re-found it, heres brady barrs 690 psi lion:


45324501 57

45324501 60

It wasnt even a legitimate test he usually does with that biting gauge thing he has on his regular show...exactly why it scored under all the rest of the biologist who had the lions bite force pegged at 900-1,200 psi, with some as high as 2,000 psi. The 690 psi from barr comes from a nearly maneless 2 year old. Some one should ask him in an email if he could do an adult male lion and male tiger on film, although, I think that would be difficult, since all the test hes done like crocs, wolves, snakes and stuff really dont utilize their forepaws as weapons so they have to just bite, hence the lion or tiger would most of the time paw at the device instead of bite it, explains probably the reason why barr went with another approach of a pulling device instead of his usual gadget he has animals biting on.

Regardless, a few psi will hardly make the difference...but at the moment the lion on record has the harder bite anyway. lol

Sorry to disappoint tiger fans, but the world would never give the title of King to a animal who constantly runs from a challenge:


But for good reason I guess, with lions killing bears with one blow, a tiger to willingly take on a large maned lion in prime of life just does not know who hes messin with...I mean:

1.) King of sweden 17th century lion kills bear with one blow
2.) 1902 Bostocks, lioness crushes black bears skull in with a paw blow
3.) Yellow stone park arranged fight lion breaks grizzly bears back with one blow
4.) Aesop, several anecdotes mentions a lion killing a bear with one blow
5.) Kane replican lion out-slugs bear killing it with one blow instantly
6.) 1895 Nero at wombwells menagerie kills a huge bear breaking his back like a twig. with one blow.

I thought the bear would do much better in an enclosed area, where he can just pin the lion down and keep biting...but it shows apparently not. I was skeptic about a lion killing a bear with one blow, since...its a bear...but with the continuing of accounts adding up of not just bears but all types of sources, shows that the lion truely is a gifted fighter, alot oweing probably to his social system. No other large predator like bears or tigers has it. Hence I dont think they will ever be as good as a fighter as lions. And whats even more funny is that most of the public thinks thats what makes lions weak, to say that is like saying every individual professional human champion in fighting like boxing and ufc never had a coach, gym to train at, have a sparring partner...they had to be social in order to become great, breaking off from the fighting camp doesnt erase all the skills they picked up and training they did.

According to the narrator, croc backed down:

looks like some lions took another crocs one too:








Musango’s surroundings are saturated with wildlife and over 400 species of birds. Wendy Edwards told of a recent exhilarating wild sighting near camp. She said, “This croc thought it would try and steal the impala that the lions had killed near camp early one morning. After a lot of noise and a fight, the lions killed the croc and ate it too.” Musango truly is set in one of Zimbabwe’s most untouched spaces where the wilderness rules





Africa has some big dam crocs.

it became evident that lions had killed both warthog and crocodile:

This source states the largest he knows of a lion killing a croc is 11 feet:

The largest individual reported killed by any predator was a lion-killed Nile crocodile 3.53 m (11 ft 7 in.)

There seems to be quite the handfull of accounts where lions have killed 10-15 foot crocs...quite impressive.


Tokyo museum
http://s52.radikal.ru/i138/1512/91/5028256d32d2.jpg

Thought it was a tiger, source said its lion and bear:


Lion defeating multiple tigers


Edited by Prime - 22-Dec-2015 at 07:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2015 at 18:44
And check this out, looks to be a Greek/roman type of done in the 18th century some british guy name wright:

(you can see the lady standing on what seems to be a dead tiger)

quite funny that some russian guys transferred some of the data to their site for viewing:

lol Hilarious, Russian...as in where the Siberian tiger is from. It seems they fancy the data.


Thanks for the artifact russian guys.

The lion, equipped with the most powerful killing arm in the animal kingdom, Zebra and Kongol are the lion's main food. He races alongside his intended victim and kills it with a single blow of his paw.

The general form of the lion is stronger in front, than the proportions of his kindred tribes; and his broad chest and

lol thats a pretty funny one, two compared of their kill sizes:

I thought the tigers were the better hunter, I'm starting to think male lions are capable of out-hunting hunting male tigers with all the accounts of giraffes, elands and crocs...almost a regular now, what do tigers have new that they consistently hunt, all the biologist charts like schaller them say, tigers preffer things in the 200-600 lb range, quite shy of the giraffes 1,500 lb medium. and 4,000 lb max...and elands/giraffes are no jokes:
[​IMG]


Both those animals can hit 4,000 lbs...the guar is more of a flop...I'm pretty sure asiatic lions took them out just as easy if not easier than the black death cape buffalo, since guar are in much smaller herds.

Lions have been known in a few exceptional cases to attackand kill a rhinoWe have observed three subadult lions stalk an adult male rhino from two sides in

huge eland kill

Both the elands fell, struck senseless by the blows of the lionspaws and by the grip of the powerful teeth just forward of the shoulder.



Tiger-buffalo fight...the buffalo always wins:

 A fierce king-lion raided the herds of the Bamangwato, crushing the skull of an ox with ablow of his terrible paw.

Afficher limage dorigine

lion defeating two tigers




a lioness kills a tiger article:


Amorous tiger dies trying TAIPING, Tues. A lonely old tiger which amorously tried to lay its paws on a lioness was killed by the female at the zoo here at the weekend. Until then the two had been freindly. And the lioness had not minded the tigers approuches a zoo keeper said. The killing happned when there were few visitors at the zoo. Appearntly taking advantage of the privacy, the old tiger entered the den of the lioness. A fight followed, ending in the death of the tiger. Zoo officials could only watch helplessly.

~The Straits Times, 2 May 1984, Page 44


The account of where a lioness stalemated a male bengal killing him:

The lioness was the aggressor and attacked first, fastening her teeth with a vice like grip into the neck of the tiger, 

The Singapore Free Press and Mercantile Advertiser (1884-1942), 11 August 1924, Page 6


So at this point, a lioness vs a tigress is 50/50, a fight with a lioness and a male tiger is like 60/40, in favor of the lioness. So, lionesses:

1925 asiatic lioness kills tiger in nagpur, maharaj bagh zoo
1903 lioness kills tiger in british menagerie
1924 lioness kills tiger stalemating him in london 
1936 lioness nearly kills tiger, tiger is saved by water at soles brothers circus
1905 lioness almost kills tiger ripping him to shreds, william cartner thomas
1995 two young asiatic lionesses kill tigress in nadankanan zoo

Tigresses killing male tigers

1967 tigress kills male tiger protecting her cubs george schaller
1896 tigress kills male tiger in the london zoo and eats its body charles cornish
1985 tigress kills male tiger S kumar sanctuary of asia volume 5 
1967 wild tiger defeats male tiger sher jung tryst with tigers
2001 saw a fight between a tiger and tigress later found the male tigers dead body J.C daniels natraj
1984 tigress named princess kills imported wild male bengal tiger rhode island
1981 valmik thapar sees a tiger killed by a tigress protecting her cubs
2001 tigress kills male cage mate in elpaso zoo
1913 tigress kills male tiger in the wild, cinncinati  enquirer
2013 chennai tigress kills mate male white tiger
1956 two tigresses kill male bengal named rajah cinncinati zoo
2010 Shenzen safari park tigress kills male tiger
2012 ranthambore park male tiger steals tigresses meal and loses fight


Combined the female tigers/lions, and thats just about 20 accounts of tigresses and lionesses (FEMALES) killing male bengal tigers, not including the other female animals like beattys bear named dorris, and puss and beauty the leopardess...so whats with all the tiger fans always cutting people off and capitalizing...but if it were a MALE TIGER...lol male tigers have a more poor'er record against other animals than tigresses do. Male lions are almost never killed by another predator short of a crocodile and thats usually by ambush. single lionesses can kill a male tiger in a short fight, even 5-10 lionesses have a hard time beating back a male lion in the wild, let alone killing him. Those records are not so much to show the prowess of the females, but the lack of durability the male tiger has at his neck area. If lions manes offered zero protection, than tiger fans should be able to provide 20 accounts of animals killing male lions (well maned) with bites to the neck. I mean, a leopard or wild dogs ripping the jugular of a male tigers throat open, and 20+ lionesses cant? Or coalitions of 4 males to 1 male cant? That spells a scientific fact, if I ever read one. lol


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Edited by Prime - 27-Dec-2015 at 01:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2015 at 14:55
Hey thanks again Clay for re-opening the L vs B thread and the Leopard vs tiger thread:



As I stated before, that was his main reason for that spammer being here, to bait people into getting the threads locked so no more truth will be known. Atleast now people like catlion, jaws, lioncrest or anyone else wants to share more info, they can post them in this and those threads.

On the side note, I have spoken with several other people of india who are high authority's on the indian lion, and shared the accounts of the asiatic lion killing tigers with them:

Along with a few other things, they were quite blown away (like Clyde beatty stuff)...I think that will help aid their search in more districts that held them both...some have written entire books on the asiatic lion, and by the looks of it, those records of ganges river, bangalore and surat might soon be a total oblivious case, to a common notion. Some of them have stated, everything was speculation, and turned to the usual the tiger is bigger, longer, heavier, faster more cunning bullcrap that was repeated on hundreds of assuming books, but now the speculation is down to, actual records in the wild, which puts it at lions 4 wins, tigers 0 wins. Hey, not that much to brag about, but with those in place to finding more, do you honestly think it will switch sides with all the clyde beatty stuff to back the lions case of a superior 1 on 1 or even 1 on 3 fighter? We'll see.


Edited by Prime - 29-Dec-2015 at 15:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2015 at 08:17
Hey Prime. Glad to see you back. BTW you refer to 4 lion wins in the wild. I was only aware of the Ganges and Surat cases. Could you tell me about the other two cases? (one of them being the Bangalore incident.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2015 at 15:49
Hey catlion, 

Just asked clay to re-open the thread so you guys could still post stuff. Surat, and Ganges are the two more accurate death accounts, Bangalore is a stalemate but the article said the tiger was bitten badly twice in the neck which is fatal, and the old man stating he went to India and saw something similar is a wild card, but one site says the book is non-fiction, so its still included.

I see lioncrest is active still, he should transfer some of the data to his main site and organize it, since all he has is the death accounts, you should ask him to do a upgrade of all the experts opinions that's on here so far. But hope it helps you guys.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2015 at 17:33
Yeah, I ask him to upgrade all the new stuff. Quite interesting, indeed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2016 at 17:22
Re-found the link to daniel boones lion who he said weighed 900 lbs:

ATTACKED BY A LION A Thrilling Experience Which Colonel Boone Had in Africa Colonel Daniel Boone the well known performer with trained lions wan a member of the French soldiery in Africa during the 70s His regiment was stationed just outside of one of the worst jungles known in that part of the country and had G number of very thrilling adventures In 1876 said he while our regiment of CnasseursdAfrique was quartering in southern Africa a lion hunt was organized by some of the officers Accompanied by the native beaters and necessary accouterment we started into the jungle Several lions had been killed and we were on the point of returning when a lion was started as I thought back of mo I turned and waited for him to come out of the jungle when I heard a cracking of twigs in the rear and I turned just in time to see a tremendous i fellow about crouching for a spring I i threw my gun up and gave it to him right I between the eyes A lions skull instead of being round is angular with the forehead more or less pointed A ball striking full in the face will glance either one side or another Thats just what mine did It ran along under the skin and cut the skin at the neck I knew that my last chance was gone and dropping my gnu I tel into a position kneeling on one knee with my left arm thrown up to shield my face When he came at me all I could see was a brown streak and then he struck He caught my arm just above the elbow and braced as I was he turned a complete somersault over my head He held on chewing and growling while I tried to reach my hunting knife Suddenly with a lightning Jke motion the lion let go my arm and throwing me on I my back opened his huge jars and gripped me on the left side 1 felt the ribs give way Then I gave myself up a A goner7 I The other members of the party had come up in the meantime but the lion and I were so closely mixed up that a shot was impossible Finally when I had lost consciousness ono of the party sneaked up and placed the muzzle of his gun at the lions ear and let her go killing him instantly I was three months recovering and then three of my ribs were crushed and this arm was a reminder The lion weighed 900 pounds and measured over seven feet 

This is the 857 lb tiger?




lol that tiger looks no bigger than a 450 lb tiger, the average maned lion looks bigger than that. Both these records come from unreliable sources...I dought either or is the weight they state.

No wonder the keeper lee young phill was difficult to find, his name is spelled yiyongphil


1.)

Yongin Everland afternoon last August 28 Tiger - Upon entering the lion only飼育舍(keepers), the reporter was surprised to suddenly surprise to咆哮(roar) of the lion bursts. The roar of the lion can without coming through the "animal kingdom" is in front of the television, but the real popularity of professional training were just beginning its time. The roar of a lion spewing out via heartfelt resonance in the vocal fold, from 300 square keepers space and played a tremendous sound effects. Indeed, "this sounds axis" is the expression was realized. 

The roar was the hero of the獅龍(saryong). The eleven-year-old was born in 1990 in Yongin Everland saryong lion - the oldest male lion eating tiger safari.

Everland tiger-lion safari is the only stand虎world-famous for its獅living. Starting with a lion safari zoo opened in 1976 and 1987 after the tiger safari will be added to the next dwaetgo that opens the "Wild Safari" in March 1992 put together a lion and a tiger. 

2.)
Yiyongpil zookeeper watched a power struggle since the opening of the safari內is "Meanwhile, the frequent change of government, but after the April 2000" POSCO "are accounted for supremacy Safari內has become relatively calm," he said. He explained the reason for this is that POSCO is currently recognized as a champion integration. 

"" POSCO "Ahi is also fighting tooth for now. However, given the snacks look more hierarchies that it is easy to see how if caught. If there are spun the jeep safari內to give the chicken as a snack for the animals at this time, "POSCO" throw this in the "hosik" POSCO stands approaching its halfway point only. "Hosik" Ido course a situation that looks interested deombiji not dare to eat. 

3.)
Tiger crowd versa. "Hogeol" in Article 1 Tiger champion (11 years old) since the wind up line (11 years old) - hodol (10 years old) - hogeol - Lake District (10 years old) - hogeol - jipgwoncheung are often turned back to hosik. The climate of the selling power of being something safaris內glance. 

So #1. When lions were first brought there to everland, the lions roared and was vastly more powerful than anything they have ever heard from a tiger, hence the lions roar in decibels is higher and reaches twice the distance as tigers, as its saying you cant tell by hearing both on the tv, which is true, you can hear a jet engine on tv doesnt mean you know exactly how loud and powerful it is upclose...they were in awe of the lions prowess.

#2 The first wave or group of tigers and lions brought there had Posco as the king and had supremacyover all lions and tigers there, it even states he stole others foods so much they had to drive up to him and give him his own exclusive snacks before he would start fights and almost killed the tigers, it even said seryoung one of the oldest lions there ate one of the tigers.

#3 The acclaims of tiger fans who said hobbi was the dominant or caesar, or rang or any other is, wrong, liyongphil said the tiger hogoel in the tiger vs tigers was the tigers best fighter. Which again, all the tiger fans in english arnt quoting any reliable source, only blogs from korean tiger fans, lyoung phil even said in his other statement that the internet held opinions from tiger fans that they won, his opinion unlike theres are based off of 10 years of experince and observation, the tiger fans just tryed to twist what they recorded...much like how pckts try to twist all the clyde beatty stuff and stated clyde beatty was the ultimate proof that tigers usually win (laugh), that was only when all the records wasnt visible to know, hence like we have tons of records of beatty, we have the statement of Liyongphil (saying in his era posco and the lion group dominated tigers) and in jeongsangjos era (stated idenitity and his brothers like techno, thunder bolt ect dominated the tigers).

They can twist and say anything they like, and edit out any part of the video, in reality the videos are only about a half an hour long, of superficial fights (mostly showing tigers showing little fight, then submiting or running from lions), but the head keepers have seen much more than 30 minutes worth, they have seen months, years and decades worth, and they said the lion dominated for 10+ years...so no dought if one was to contact them, and retrieve all they have to give in a memoir, no dought they would give out exclusive info like lions killing tigers there, and since they are one of few places that do that in a more similar to wild environment, I suspect alot of tigers were killed before cars or staff were able to help them...remember, for a tiger to kill the lion, he has to out game him, out last him, route him and some how get pass the mane, by then the distress calls would alert the other lions to aid him, with lions if they went for the kill, it would be ridiculously fast, one good hold or strike and its over.
 

bigcats.jpg

4 names for everland 2010

and according to the koreans, the lion is faster than the tiger:
149384 2


After the talk with some of the highly regarded indian historians and authority's on the matter of the indian lion, I took a second glance at the ashoka edict pillar placements:
[​IMG]


I found it funny and interesting that the accounts we found so far of conflicts in the wild are pin point accurate with where the ashoka pillars are? Look at sopara on ashoka edicts, then look at where we found the lion killing tiger account at surat:

[​IMG]

Just like the german explorer, look at the ashoka edicts one more time, then look where the ganga yamuna is:

[​IMG]

The same with the bangalore account matches heavily where alot of ashoka edicts are, is it just coincidence? Lions were already there, long before animal traders, long before even Indian religion goes back, they have lion bones dating before humans...I brought up valmik thapar to most of the indian historians I talked to, and it wasnt even a conversation, they didnt even condole him in the same class as a historian, more of a copy and paste taking the credits of other books and putting his own spin on things. 

I told some of the historians about how the accounts had one thing in common, they were all near water, bangalaore was near a creek, ganges was of course the river, and  surat was at the tapi river...so that was a clue, but look...look back at the ashoka edicts placements on the map....mostly all of them are near...RIVERS...bodys of fresh water, where both lion and tiger would absoultely need that element to survive and which would drive both to conflicts regardless of preferred jungle vs open grass land. Hence, I dont think these were just pillars to idolize ashoka the man, but they were land marks in where they saw lions in BC times, not just of the lions presence, why would they emmit a tiger monument if another animal is his superior? Both lion/tiger would be highly abundant, and both can share the same regions and coexist...but only one would be master when both meet, in the eyes of man, they would only favor the more bold and the usual victor...and thats the lion.

But think about the number figures, haryana had 300 lions killed in just several years by one man (probably hundreds more undocumented in each of the lions former regions), and if laws were to have protected them against hunters back then, like how the media is helping gujarats lions, if 20 lions grew to 523 in a century, how much would that have added haryana lions in with the gujarat lions? There would be more than a thousand by now, just from 2 states. If they were redistributed and started like gujarat, then if:

- Rajahsthan had 20
- Medyah predesh had 20
- Haryana had 20
- Uttar predesh had 20
- Bihar had 20

If there was just 100 lions distributed (shit, I know theres more than that in captivity), by some captive re-wiliding programs like how dave salmoni did, that would yield over 3,000 lions in the same success as the gujarat lions.






[​IMG]
We were called yesterday by Lion Guardian Masarie who had just come across a huge eland kill, and the tracks of a big male lion. He reported that it was a fresh kill and that not much had been eaten, so we rushed to the scene, hoping to find out who had made this massive kill!
http://lionguardians.wildlifedirect.org/2010/11/29/male-lion-kills-a-huge-eland/


3....1.5 year old lions kill giant eland:

One morning we came across the 3 young lions on an eland kill. The 3 youngsters are spending more and more time away from the adults as they get older – they’re roughly 1.5 years old. We have been very impressed to see them hunt and kill some rather large animals and the eland was the biggest yet…weighing in at roughly 800 kg.
http://blog.nambitihills.com/lodge-news/lion-kill/

and non-catering camps and road grading in the Luangwa riverine area. None
of the wildlife populations suffered any harm as a result of the flooding. The
Biologist reported a case of lion having killed a young elephant of indeterminate 
age.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+Biologist+reported+a+case+of+lion+having+killed+a+young+elephant+of%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22The+Biologist+reported+a+case+of+lion+having+killed+a+young+elephant+of%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...2398.4772.0.4993.2.2.0.0.0.0.122.230.0j2.2.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.Ykf7f-_TldE

On our last trip (September 2015), we had a fascinating time watching a pair of young bachelor lions, about three and a half years old, guarding the carcass of a large female eland (the most cow-like of the antelopes) that they had killed a couple of days before.
https://mahb.stanford.edu/wp-conten...BeyondTheBigFive_AEhrlichPEhrlich_Oct2015.pdf


The feeling of tranquility and peace that was experienced this morning was interrupted with the sudden appearance of two lions and their eland kill.
https://rangerriaan.wordpress.com/tag/lion/


Lions hunt eland far more than expected based on their encounter rate, but only kill them in proportion to the number of hunting attempts (Fig. 1). There were not enough hunts of eland during 96 hour follows to calculate hunting success, however lions non-preferentially killed eland in Addo, as they do elsewhere (Fig. 1).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168440/

The lions killed a wide range of species but eland and gemsbok were their main prey. If we compare these predation data to the known prey population data (earlier graph) lions kill less springbok but more eland than what is present in the population. However it is well known that small species, like springbok, are often underrepresented in estimates of lion predation. Lions generally capture and consume small prey animals quickly and leave little evidence of the event. Therefore, if we only compare species of roughly the same mass (eland, gemsbok, hartebeest and ostrich) lions kill significantly more eland than any other species 


Jackal looking for some leftovers after the Lion Killed the Eland.


An old lioness protect the killed Eland while the rest of the pride is taking it easy

Members of the ridge pride yesterday with and Eland kill near Naibor camp south of the Talek river 

Photo taken of the lion just after he had fed off his eland kill.

The size difference between a eland bull and a elephant shows how big eland get:
This is only the second lion-killed elephant I have seen in over 20 years in Africa.



Elands body compared to giraffes:

eland compared to wildebeest:

But lion do kill eland for I have had proof of this, though I think it is probable that they do so only when the eland are in small numbers and when other game is scarce. There is no doubt that much danger is attached to tackling such a big and 

They killed eland and wildebeest and zebra and an occasional puku or bush pig on Ibamba, and lions attacked the ...

Eland - Lion Kill
Eland – Lion Kill




Considerably larger species, however - giraffe, buffalo and eland - are also taken, and Pienaar (1969) records attacks on ...

The bushmen have told me that a single big lion — that is, a male in his prime — can pull down and kill a giraffe.

gallery_108_860_120278.jpg

He averred that a single male lion can easily kill a bull giant eland

In the same locality two eland bulls were killed together
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22In+the+same+locality+two+eland+bulls+were+killed+together+and+fed+a+pride+of+30+lions.%22

It was encountered in the periodicity described above: chasing down a bull eland in 120 degree heat; experiencing 
https://books.google.com/books?id=p6x_Gi-aMP0C&pg=PA7&dq=%22lion++%22attacked+a+bull+eland%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbu67piZbKAhVU6mMKHcCdBpgQ6AEIJzAD#v=onepage&q=%22lion%20%20%22attacked%20a%20bull%20eland%22&f=false

Lions kill giant eland in tall, thick grass,

She had been bitten on the back and on one foreleg, and through the lower jaw." Kenya Parks archives 1958 "Lions killed an eland bull in the Wamba sanctuary towards the end of June...A pair of lions killed a large elandbull, and fed on it for two days...."On the Marsol plains — after investigating vultures — the Warden observed a pair of adult lions with two half-grown cubs, feeding on the carcass of a freshly killed cow eland.. ..."About a mile from Maktau, the Warden shot an eland bull, which was very weak and appeared to have wounds around its neck and back. On inspection, the wounds indicated claw and teeth marks of a lion." Kenya Game archives 1965.

 Big as he is the eland is not immune from the attacks of the lion ; indeed lions will dare much to get a taste of eland beef.

The natives and lions are very similar in their tastes in the selection of tit-bits: an eland may be seen disemboweled by a lion so completely that he scarcely seems cut up at all.


(Elands can reach up to 4,000 lbs) So, single lions can kill bull eland, 3 lion cubs can kill a adult eland, and eland are one of the lions main prey...via usual, not rarely or only one or two, but many, yet with tigers and guars, even two tigers are killed by him, which there are no genuine records of tigers killing guar to back up the photos of tigers eating already dead guar, no videos of adults, no abstracts of eyewitnesses accounts, just hear say that they do, and not even a photo of a tiger in a struggle or on the back of a healthy guar.

And put some of the mane stuff here:


So it looks like brady barr did, have a bite measuring device inside the animal:


Even more so it shows a small grabbing bite, not a struggling to kill a prey or adversary bite with a much harder force, and thats a maneless small male, a full maned 400+ pound adult would be 2-3x stronger, much like the other source which showed a large lion with nearly 10,000 newtons of force, I have never seen any measuring of tigers past just 5,000 newtons, and much like how wroe said the smilodon had a weaker bite because of longer canines, most likely the tiger who has longer canines than lions do too... tigers have weaker bites.









Edited by Prime - 31-Jan-2016 at 16:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2016 at 14:56

1954 Gill gray circus lion noted to have killed two tigers:
Screenshot (53)


Screenshot (54)


Screenshot (55)


As the tiger's neck was for a second fully exposed, the bear's head shot out from between his shoulders, swift as a striking snake, and the next instant his jaws clamped together like a trap of death and his knife-like fangs cut through skin, muscle and bone until they met in the vital knot at the base of the neck. As if struck by lightning, the tiger's head sank back and his clutching paws stiffened and loosed their...Not until the striped body lay stark and still did the bear open his jaws and, lurching to his feet, stand, a bloodstained ...

Federal officials have pointed to problems at both facilities. A 2007 U.S. Department of Agriculture inspection at Predator World noted three instances of animals getting out of their pens: two wolves that escaped into the community; a grizzly bear that remained on the property but was able to kill a tiger; and a fo



How and why would a tiger be more skilled at fighting from constantly running and being killed by wild dogs? Lions are more skilled in fighting because of their surroundings, they are constantly in battle with hyena:



How would those personas and quality's all of sudden change when both lion and tiger meet? They wont, the lion will always be the aggressor, the tiger will always be the cowardly, this is what their competitors has sculpted them into being.


Screenshot (57)

This is why most idealize the lion over the tiger, its because of their quality's, lions will attack anything that inversa attacks something weaker or not in fairness:
Screenshot (59)





These are noble quality's, which tigers are not accustomed to. 

The tiger cannot bear too much sun or heat:


Nero was a pretty big lion, now if the tiger tim had a mane like nero, most likely he wouldnt have been killed so fast:

Buffalo kills tiger:


Buffalo fight back, and one has been seen to up and kill two tigers

This date is in september, the original was in july:
Thursday, September 30, 1909


This is the original, and it states july (which is before September)

Just like martials epigrams the more articles cover it, the more the story changes, all the articles went from might have to be shot, to now he was shot...but whats the difference...look at the dates, that one you just reported was in september 1909, the original took place in july, why didnt all the 100s of news articles report it there and then that the lion died and was shot? Thats because he wasnt, that same lion attacked the tiger again:

Almost a year later and the lion is still alive and still attacking the tiger:

Even as he bowed I fancied that he kept an eye on the tigers. Stung by the lash of the whip and mercilessly followed up by the gray-eyed Plattdeutscher. the snarling beasts gave way to him and reluctantly took their seats upon the various benches which were attached to the bars .separating the arena from the spectators. Seven In all-fine lions and two tigers-with their backs toward us. hungrily eyed the tamer while he placed stools in various positions ready for his act. Another crack of the whip and the first lion sprang from his seat and took his place on the stool. One after another the other animals reluctantly took their places: the trainer took a position in the middle of the circle of man-eaters, an! at his word of command a great lion in the center rose on his haunches and placed his front paws on the shoulders ot Falkendorf. Placing the stools in different positions, other formations were made, each seemingly more dangerous than the last. The huge maw of one beast was opened wide by Falkendorf, with a hand on each side. The musicians suddenly ceased blowing and fiddling, and the blonde head of the lion tamer was thrust Into the mouth of the lion. Driving the animals back to their seats the trainer had stooped to pick up a stool when a tiger sprang on him and felled him to the floor. His back had been turned, and the leap was one of at least 15 feet I heard two shots fired, and saw one Of the largest lions spring upon the tiger with bristling neck hair and switching tail. It was over quickly. The supple Hon tamer regained his feet, gave the tiger a taste of another blank cartridge, and with the Hon looking on with approval he rained blow after blow upon the tiger at a point Just underneath its jaw

1910 august (which is after 1909)






Ha ha ha, look back at the article, it states there were 7 lions and 2 tigers...the article a year later says...7 lions and 2 tigers, if Prince the lion or Caesar was killed, wouldnt there have been only 6 lions performing? Ha ha ha, much like the idiotic extra article of the alipore zoo:

image

What really happened there:




Fritchman's Eland tipped the scales at over 4,000 pounds 



CHAPTER X THE KING OF BEASTS the smallest tenting circus has a liongroup of alleged man-eaters from the jungle, for notwithstanding the claims of tigers, the lion is the most spectacular wild beast, with a roar that makes timid folk shudder. The average lion is heavier and bigger than a tiger. In mixed groups it is usually a lion that makes the first move to fight, and he is quickly assisted by his brothers, for lions invariably form alliances when it comes to a battle. The biggest lions of the circus world stand 5 feet high at the shoulder,and are about to feet long, with a weight of 550 pounds As the chief representative of the family Felidae, lions well repay study, both in the circus ring, and more conveniently in menagerie cages. There is usually a crowd before the lion cages, quite thrilled to see the king 101. ...

Screenshot (60)


Sheep killed a tiger:


stronger lion. I have, in fact, evidence of a lion killing a panther, the fight being a totally one-sided affair. ... There has been much speculation about whether the lion or the tiger were once in conflict and if so, as to which would have been the 

Diad (Deesa).—This is a very hot station, but still much liked on account of the abundance of sport of all descriptions in the vicinity. It is the sole place in the known world where the lion and tiger prowl in the same jungles.

Underneath the drawing of the lion, you may see, in the distance, a rather slylooking animal stealing along gently, which is called the Tiger. This animal is said to be much more cruel and cowardly than the lion, and to be even more bloodthirsty; but all writers do not agree on this subject. In India the tigers are the terror of man, and the animals ofthe jungle. The jungles of India, where sometimes the grass grows to nearly the height of an elephant, is the tiger's sleeping place. In the evening, the tamer animals wander down to the side of the river, to drink and refresh themselves after the heat of the day; then the tiger is found there too, waiting for them. Many fierce and bloody combats with lions, tigers, and crocodiles are said to take place near the Ganges and other rivers ofIndia.

 The lion, which was long supposed to be unknown in India, is now ascertained to exist in considerable numbers in the districts of Saharunpoor and Loodianah. Lions have likewise been killed on this side the Ganges in the northern parts of Rohilcund, in the neighbourhood of Moradabad and Rampoor, as large, it is said, as the average of those in the neighbourhood of the Cape of Good Hope. Both lions, where they are found, and tigers, are very troublesome to the people of the villages near the forest, who, having no elephants,

The district lying between this village, Tuwukkul and Lukeeke, is the favourite resort of lions and tigers: a few days previous to our arrival the inhabitants killed a very large tiger; and on the 7th we saw the recent traces of a lion, in a tamarisk jungle, 

https://books.google.com/books?id=P1YoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA154&dq=%22india%22+lion+tiger++%22village+of%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidntrKgeTKAhUS5mMKHXEBDdYQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22india%22%20lion%20tiger%20%20%22village%20of%22&f=false


lol hey counter strike, check this out, this account is from your debater there, ry or atleast his original name pckts...this is part of his so called list of tigers killing lions, little did he know...this came from the same 1932 issue that the movie the big cage dug up, what? yup, none other than clyde beatty:

jdfnbhjegvbh 70000



Heres a big...big peice of the story that they left out:


The secret of much of the power which a trainer has over wild animals," said Beatty, "is their instinctive fear of a human being. A man never ceases to be a...Many a trainer has been maimed or killed by an animal which had virtually been considered a pet. "Of the forty-two lions and tigers sit quietly on their pedestals within the iron circus cage, apparently so many well-broken cats at peace with the world and their trainer. Across the arena, crouched close against the ground, Bredo the tiger, creeps toward his stand. The trainer...and twelve tigers, and resulted in the death of three of the tigers and the serious injury of several of the lions.tiger in a finish fight. A IN THE ARENA In the cage will power and sheer nerve arethe trainer's most important asset.

https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&q=The+secret+of+much+of+the+power+which+a+trainer+has+over+wild+animals%2C%22+said+Beatty%2C+%22But+the+question+of+individual+supremacy+is+still+unsettled%2C+though+I+would+be+inclined+to+favor+a+tiger+in+a+finish+fight.+A+IN+THE+ARENA+In+the+cage+will+power+and+sheer+nerve+are+the+trainer%27s+most+important+asset.+He+knows+all+the+animals+intimately+and+he+can+judge+their+moods+at+a+glance.+lion+stands+on+its+feet+while+fighting%2C+but+a+tiger+gets+the+full+advantage+of+its+deadly+claws%2C+as+well+as+its+teeth%2C+by+lying+on+its+back+and+striking+upward+with+all+four+feet.+In+this+way+it+often+inflicts+terrible+wounds.%22


So it was clyde beatty who said in gang fights, the 5 tigers were killed in 1932, add that to trudy who was killed by prince, and pasha who was killed by nero, and several other cases all validate his 25 tigers were killed statement, and the lions hes talking killed were killed by other lions, via bessie the lioness from sammy, and two other occasions...hence this is why in this article clyde said he thought the tiger would win in a 1 on 1 fight:

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/6884a4ea962d4a6285be8808bddd64bf.jpg


So it all changed in 1933 when he made the big cage movie, he then stated at the end...from now on, I'll bet on the lion:

cf00666b8c9d4fad96b2fed83a9f2325.png



lol So what is peter going to say about the mighty and heavily biased beatty now? He once favored the tiger, how can he be bias? until he saw Sultan kill tommy in a fair 1 on 1 no hold bars fight with a wild tiger to the death...lol that means they just lost 3 so called tiger killing lion accounts and the inability to call Clyde bias...of course beatty favored the tiger at that point, he was asked hundreds of times of fanatics who yelled at him no the tiger wins...and as he send out scientist to look for answers via roy chapman andrews, and more... they all kept telling him that the tiger would win because all the papers always stated the tiger made short work of the lion bit but actually are quoting misinformed accounts like sleeping lionesses, young lions, and other fictional stuff, hence the articles prior to 1933, has beatty saying he wasnt sure and that it would be foolish to make a conclusive answer if he hasnt seen what most would call a fair fight or the best vs the best (neither did they, they just wanted it so, like mebel stark who in her own movie proved her self wrong lol), he even says he himself read countless of books in how the tiger was suppose to be unbeatable, yet his long years of seeing hundreds of fights has proven at the end of his career that he knows upon experience that the lion is the usual victor.


Good article by the way counter strike, much like how he says it in his book:

0bf7b04a96c14d8f8e479a6704893830.png


5414e602aed34ec4b2cce0049e4b493c.png866c43dcc4994415a8e1008c1e25baa7.png



[​IMG]

Again, thats in 1951, so...we still add in this one years after he stated it in 1954:
During their first performance this spring and during the act two lions attacked and killed a tiger Mr. Beatty stayed in the cage during the entire fight to keep the other animals from getting into it - - - Mr. Beatty says no matter how well you think you know a tiger or lion, you still cannot trust'them The quiet ones are often the most dangerous 

Plus the lion france which killed two tigers, and I think there was 2 other incidents after makes it almost 60 accounts of lions killing tigers of beattys career, whos to say there arnt more to be found by him? lol And cool, you found the sabre account, I knew of that one for a while, and was going to use it to trade peter an account for an account, since I know he knows more of lions killing tigers, some of his post were erased and I didnt jot them down at the time. But no worrys still a few more...if peter wants to play ball, I can give him 1 or two accounts of tigers killing lions if hes willing to trade for what he knows. lol 

Hilarious, they thought the guy boone was the trainer who said all that, he was only the interviewer...he was interviewing Clyde beatty, the one they all love to hate, because he inadvertently...proved that the bengal tiger is no match for the african lion, I think the only bet left for them is the olden day siberians, which I think could be big...but bengals already have been showing to lose to asiatic lions, so siberians most likely are the share holders as beatty once suggested.





Edited by Prime - 09-Feb-2016 at 04:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2016 at 01:30
Hey thanks clay... wont happen again...gotta be smooth, and be cool. lol Thanks again.

Check this out:

Two lions kill a bengal and rip off his legs:


Thats pretty raw, those type of accounts pretty much shows that in india, tigers had no say in the lions disappearance. And look at this one, this is the whole fight from bostock, he mentions a tiger that killed other tigers and a jaguar (proves how vulnerable the neck is for maneless pantheras) and its now confirmed that the tiger the other source mentions about bostock, is a male...as the name Mentor, sounds more manly than feminine:

Screenshot (108)
Bostocks and hagenbecks pretty much lost just as much if not more tigers than beatty, atleast beatty unlike court, bostock and a few others didnt take it out on the animals an beat them or killed them outright, and had a more logical approach, instead of shooting the animal, beatty would let the rough neck crew of lions teach the animal a lesson in a brawl , so they calm down...hey a bit barbaric, but it beats shooting the animal. lol

I dont know where this person is sourcing it from:

ln the jungle the tiger was the rupst powerful and so he kept close to the tiger, fawning all about him. Then one day the tiger confronted a lion and a terrible duel followed at the end of which the tiger lay dead. 
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Then+one+day+the+tiger+confronted+a+lion+and+a+terrible+duel+followed+at+the+end+of+which+the+tiger+lay+dead.+WANTON+KlLLlNG%22


But this one genuine:

No useful purpose is served, and the outcome is nearly always tragic, as when the lion killed its tigress spouse in the Bloemfontein Zoo. In 1952, four ligers (the result of a union between a lion and a tigress) were born in the Pretoria Zoo, but 

Heres the artifact in that same area of gujarat shows a lion defeating a tiger (bottom left)


Top left: Elephant and rhino fight
Top middle: Lion looking out on a rockery
Top right: Jungle scene

Bottom left: Lion biting the neck of a tiger
Bottom middle: Lion chasing a blue bull 
Bottom right: Running sambar

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/L...jectID=4886609

Another place in india, where they held fights was agra:


Theres several artifacts like that in india I mentioned before. 

Some new accounts of lions killing hippos:




Not far from this pride another pride in Linyanti Botswana specializes in killing Hippo.
http://www.botswana.co.za/Botswan...ife_Behaviour-travel/feeding.htm

lLions were seen regularly this month, but unusually, three or four of the male intruders appear to haveadopted new tactics in their hunting techniques. Three times, the lions killed adult hippos during thenight.
http://www.kwando.com/pdfs/October%202013.pdf

4 lions kill adult hippo, and 2 lions kill adult hippo
http://www.flatdogscamp.com/wp-conte...LIMB-TREES.pdf

Based on biomass, buffalo represented50% of the diet followed by hippopotamus (17%),
https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bit...df?sequence=11

two young male lions kill adult female hippo:The next day, the two intruders were found feeding on a female adult hippo which they appear tohave killed during the night.
http://www.kwando.co.za/pdfs/December%202014.pdf

Notch and the four males were seen near the saltlick on the Ntiaktiak River where they had killeda hippo. These lion have killed and fed off three hippos this month two of which were closeapparently a few days apart On the 20th the four notch males and the maternity pride killed a male hippo the other side of theTalek River on the Burrangat plains.
http://www.governorscamp.com/sites/d...12%20-%201.pdf

The Paradise Pride of lions are still living up to their formidable reputation of hunting hippo.The 5 younger male lions have apparently killed about 10 so far,
http://www.glorioussafaris.com/Governors.pdf

For several years, the pridewas regularly observed hunting adult hippos,http://globalsojourns.com/imagedump/...here_Lions.pdf


An still quite sure that the painting Johan wenzel peters did, was what the original mosaic shows in the house of faun:

rappresenta una tigre assalita da un leone, testimonianza di arte musiva
.

http://dipstorcristofor.altervista.o...3/12/Domus.pdf


That photo of the leopard isnt in the house of faun, its in the house of dove
s:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&....0.yEYMBy-2WiA


http://www.romanoimpero.com/2010/01/pompei.html



https://books.google.com/books?id=vt...0tiger&f=false



Thats what I'm getting, the one everyone speaks of damaged couldnt be made out, until a duplicate was found, that duplicate was sent to the museum in naples:



It states in this book, that the mosaico of the lion attacking the tiger, was sent to the naples museum: 

Only fragments were found of the mosaic in the room next to the exedra (plate 79:15), a scene with a lion bringing down a tiger
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=bks&q=%22a+scene+with+a+lion+bringing+down+a+tiger%22&oq=%22a+scene+with+a+lion+bringing+down+a+tiger%22&gs_l=serp.3...5176.6415.0.6579.2.2.0.0.0.0.131.256.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.93AGHMNmMEc

Found this one too:

Translated by a chinese source, it also gives credit to the old ehrya book of lions eating tigers in china:



...Lion body and relatively short, relatively tiger is moving faster, then the chance of winning the lion is almost 90%. Lions live in grasslands, good at capturing large run-type animal, and tigers live in the forest, usually prey on small animals, and is ambushed by fighting lion specializes in open areas, and is suitable for Tiger ambush in a hidden place, Prince of India in 1970 Lions and tigers will simultaneously put two entrance duct, in such encounters stations lion predictably beat tiger. 

it describes the lion would be more suitable for the survival of the wild open prairie, but in recent years also worldwide Lions beat Tiger is more than 70% winning percentage. Chinese lion due to the introduction of the social situation in China, it is destined to the 'quality' of the poor lion, but there are also defeated China tiger case.Suan fawn such as seedlings, food Butch." "Suan fawn" is an alias lion, meaning "lion, mighty, able to Haw Par for food."...Tiger suspicious, cunning, ferocious, somewhat similar to a people who commit crimes fugitives, but do not possess the king of the world turned tolerance. From this point you look in comparison tigers and lions can be seen. Tiger eyes more fierce, and the lion convey anger from the prestige dominance. Each head lion born a few months from the beginning of the test must accept battle, every adult male lion head is a ferocious combat experienced soldiers. The tiger is not. 

http://bbs.tianya.cn/m/post-free-5177517-1.shtml

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN_vzhTzMZg

With a seperate photo of the siberian that was killed by the lion cheongi in yonhap with a guy in it:
image

Atleast now we know that the bear killed by the lion baltimore, was 900 pounds:

And still cool that some russian guys got a hold of lion crest stuff:

we now know that one of the only people who backed the tiger only worked with young male lions (nearly maneless) 

thirteen went the crowd was mostly dead hordes tiger 

[출처] 본 기사는 조선닷컴에서 작성된 기사 입니다

is says hordes of tigers were killed by the lions, is that why the numbers were adjusted from 13:

125BF25D525B425EB9_idujonss4L4OQ9y.jpg

to 5 tigers:


were those the 8 tigers killed by the lions as the head keeper said hordes of tigers were killed by lions? as is that the reason why jeongsangjo said the lion posco and identity are dangerous have to always use cars to break up them from attacking tigers? could be...as the head keeper said again here the lion is always the winner:

two representing the lion and tiger, feline 'Big Star' is a one-to-one who yigilkka glued to? The winner of this fight will be the same "king of beasts

[출처] 본 기사는 조선닷컴에서 작성된 기사 입니다




So everland is kinda like beatty, they lost many tigers to lions, but hardly any lions to tigers:

Look at the white tiger:
Screenshot (70)ite

quite similar to the artifact:
original.jpg
Melvin koonzt, frack bostock, clyde beatty, and practically every trainer has said that the lion has a devastating blow from the paw, and almost no trainers attribute that quality of strength to the tiger, heres too, louis roth who said a lions paw is powerful:
Screenshot (106)


seen this one else where
Screenshot (107)

A lone lion who killed a pretty big elephant:


I just dont see it at this point, the size difference between the two is significant, weight or length of a heavier or longer tiger is still not gona amount to the stature of how large the lion is in the front and upper bodyis.



As this hunter stoneham, says, the lion is the king of the two, the tiger being faster, the lion...stronger:




1900年明治年左右手工雕刻“狮虎罐”虫罐一只-图1

Which this one, is kinda similar to the hideoyashi dog which killed a tiger, it shows that without the mane, even a dog can get at the neck of a tiger:
This is because the tiger does not have a mane, which means even a dog can get the tigers neck
dogs-chasing.jpg

The breeding programme hopes to scientifically spread the genetic diversity of the remaining Siberian tigers across the world&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

Main weapon is also different. Tiger is quickly sliding the back foot with two paw stand standing up to attack the other. Mainly writes 'being hit' method. Jeompeuryeok and also excellent flexibility.

Lion Kill the other one blew heavy punches dog paw discards breath to ask. Speed ​​is also excellent.

http://blogs.chosun.com/hbjee/2008/12/19/%ED%98%B8%EB%9E%91%EC%9D%B4%EC%99%80-%EC%82%AC%EC%9E%90-%EB%88%84%EA%B0%80-%EC%85%80%EA%B9%8C/





Edited by Prime - 29-Feb-2016 at 05:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2016 at 20:38
And conjoined some of the lions striking strength into one good post:

Quite impressive.

And check this out, we know theres several lions that killed multiple tigers, like Caesar, prince, boss tweeds and a few others...but how much tigers have killed more than one lion? So there was saba, and then sabre, both who killed two lions, quite impressive because thats 4 times lions lost...then I noticed, both killed the same amount, and...I said two of their names together several times...sabra saybre...saba sabre....saba...then I thought, these two could be basically the same tiger...so I looked at the dates, they arnt far off either:

1965, just because it said 1965, doesnt mean the tiger killed the lions on that date, they are only reporting the tigress incident:

PAWTUCKET


Saba is 13 years old, even if we go back 6 or so years, the tiger will still be in his prime:

1957




Clyde mentions he gave away sabre...he said he couldnt manage this specific tiger, I dought it was just because of the lions, since he said sabre killed several other tigers, which is 4 or more, hence was costing beatty to much money as tigers are alot more expensive...kinda like how he got rid of caesar when caesar killed the two tigers...this explains why the tiger sabre went on to kill another tigress at pawtucket later. which also confirms that sabre was a male, since the pawtucket account said, he and gestured tiger when mentioning the tigress too, since as counter strike showed, clyde called the tiger a he, then a she in different times, he also did this with Vinice, he called the tiger a she in the 1933 issue, than mentions the exact same roll over tiger and called vinice, a he, this isnt anything since beatty worked with 1,000's of tigers, so its not like he would remember all of them all the time. 


It mentions here in 1958 clyde and ringling, and pawtucket received animals from the circuses:

And exactly where was saba reported to have killed the tigress? Pawtucket...hence saba is sabre...aww  too bad, and here I thought before saba killed two hefty sized lions with 2 tigers accounted for 4 lions, yet counter strike showed the pictures of the nearly maneless males clyde had in the act at the time. So not only did tiger fans lose 2 extra accounts, the 2 that are accorded, are only young maneless males...just like dick clemens lions who were killed by the older lions, nearly maneless. Good one counter strike, we killed two birds with one stone on that one. Which means theres only a handful of times in all of history that fully maned males have been killed by tigers...if any at all.

sounds like hes basing this off a real event:

Consider the contrasting behavior when a lion and a tiger get into a fight in a circus show involving several lions and tigers. All the lions cooperate... As soon as the cooperating lions have killed the first tiger, they move to the second tiger, and then to the third.

Animal trainer Clyde Bcatty today mourned the loss of Poona, a big tiger who lost a battle to the death with two savage circus lions. The jungle beast, star of Beatty's pyramid animal act at the Shrine Circus, was stalking across the lion and tiger cage yesterday when the lions, Tarzan and Henry pounced on him. 

The other source says his name was toona, so this illustrates how the names can be slightly different even on the same accounts. it says the tiger was big, an that beatty mourned for his star attraction.

I always knew this lion here was a lioness but couldnt prove without the abstract saying so, now its confirmed, it was a lioness:


Huerta is a dam ladys name

Ive seen that account so many times, an every time I seen it, was like why would a male lion be given a female name. I also like how this article says...win for the lioness:

Screenshot (114)

Did lionesses too kill more male tigers, than male tigers have killed lionesses? I think so.

Heres a re-covered of the edward vs dan fight:

Its just hilarious how many articles say, the lion is not the king of beast, then shows a lion killing a tiger an no tigers killing lions. lol Courtney cooper just recovered the story, it was first on the american magazine, cooper in fact wasnt there for any of his fights he mentions.

Heres the whole account of a leopard killing a full grown male bengal tiger:

Screenshot (118)

Screenshot (116)

Screenshot (117)


I'm surprised the lion wasnt the savior, but then again...the leopard was probably a african leopard, looked at the lion and said...I got this.

Female boar kills full grown male bengal tiger:
Screenshot (121)

another tiger killed by a boar:


wild boar kills tiger, and croc kills tiger
Screenshot (122)


Edited by Prime - 03-Mar-2016 at 21:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2016 at 16:04



wow, what happen to the days where lions were twice as small as tigers, that tigers dwarf lions, that tigers average 850 lbs an lions only 300 lbs. Or that the biggest tiger was 1,200 lbs and the biggest lion was only 826 lbs. Now on carnivora you have every tiger fan there that cant even show a single tiger in the 20th century in the wild that goes passed asads 270 kg lion. lol
<span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">Lord Ivory, a 900 pound lion at jungle island:</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">http://traveltips.usatoday.com/miami...ren-25127.html
<span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">Leo krugeri (white lions)</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">5 feet tall, 650-950 lbs</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">https://prezi.com/ib03rqqf9yhs/endarn/<br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">
<br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">As for Brutus, the lion, Ambrose is currently trying to prove that he has the largest lion in captivity.Brutus weighs 870</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk...+weighs+870%22
As if the weights even matter, if a leopard can kill a full grown wild bengal tiger, the weights literally mean nothing. Any sized lion as long as he has a big enough mane will have the edge over any 700+lb tiger. lol asad owning that thread, whats even more funny, is they have nothing when it comes to its species average, they always have to pick the largest like that means anything. They dont talk about the lack of protection around the neck, the weaker paw strikes, the actual accounts...because theres almost zero evidence in those subjects, I wouldnt be surprise that all the times we hear of a tiger found dead with bite marks on his neck in the wild, that leopards were the ones killing them an not rival tigers.





Edited by red clay - 04-Mar-2016 at 08:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2016 at 09:06
Yes. It seems a bit surprising. But it is as though there would exist many more accounts of panthers and leopards killing male tigers than the other way round. Also, more cases of female tigers killing male tigers.

Also, the bigger the tiger the worst as a fighter is: clumsier, slower, etc. Since the tiger does not use efficiently his size and weight advantage, the likelihood of a Sumatran killing a Bengal or an Amur is higher than the opposite. Always the tiger's throat is the core of this weakness, combined with a fighting style leaving this vulnerable part unprotected.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2016 at 07:16
The faces of lions and tigers in the artefacts above depict almost perfectly the different emotions in each cat: the lion's rage and the tiger's fear. This is so specially concerning the porcelains from China, where the high artistic level of the work is projected to the description of a real fact, a real fight that at the eyes of the artist reflects a universe of emotional tension.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2016 at 05:41
Probably, size means more lions because to their specific style of fighting, mostly based in hitting and striking. The bigger the male lion the more devastating the strike. Same as in the case of boxers where weight matters a lot.

Concerning tigers and all the rest of phanterines, weight may even mean a handicap since among there the crucial factor when fighting becomes agility and speed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 22:07
Originally posted by Catlion

Probably, size means more lions because to their specific style of fighting, mostly based in hitting and striking. The bigger the male lion the more devastating the strike. Same as in the case of boxers where weight matters a lot.
No. What is important to them is the size of the coalition. Two smaller males can easily defeat a much bigger lone male, no matter his size or agression or whatever. 

Here it goes an example from the wild.
This male is called Mabande, he's said to weight around 250 kg, so he's in the upper limit of the lion weights.
These two, on the other hand, are sub-adult males, the young Ross males.
So, what happened? Simple. They chased, he ran.
(Apologies for the large pics, I can't make them smaller.)
The same applies when you keep adding lions.

Originally posted by Catlion

Concerning tigers and all the rest of phanterines, weight may even mean a handicap since among there the crucial factor when fighting becomes agility and speed.
No. It is the exact opposite thing.

Size is everything to a lone male, because in most cases is what it ends up determining who is the dominant male.

That's why a lone animal has to wait until he's grown enough to add muscle mass, to add size, otherwise the current dominant males can best them easily.


Edited by Majingilane - 10-Apr-2016 at 22:17
‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows...those that do not run are removed’
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 02:33
Majin, you do not know what you are talking about.

Male lions very often, not always, face two or three opponents and fights. Something never seen among tigers since they are solitary animals.

Apart from this, just looking at the vids in the Internet, I have seen that always it is the smaller tiger that ends up winning against the bigger one (Cannyons fight to the death, Final 16 being humiliated and punished by all the other much smaller tigers in Everland, the best fighting tiger against a lion the smaller one in the Big Cage, and too many more etceteras....).

The best fighting tiger in my opinion is the Sumatran, the worst the Amur. Bigger sub-species and individuals get clumsier and slower. What decides the dominant tiger in an area is the one who is more in shape due to age, previous feeding, etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 02:36
Majin, just read all the info in this thread and you will learn a lot.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 10:22
Originally posted by Catlion

Majin, you do not know what you are talking about.

Male lions very often, not always, face two or three opponents and fights.
 
They face them when they have no other choice, when they're cornered, and they get killed. For your poin to be valid said lone male fighting would have to win the fight, which is never the case.

So your point is lost.

Originally posted by Catlion

I have seen that always it is the smaller tiger that ends up winning against the bigger one (Cannyons fight to the death,
Yeah, the "smaller" male was at the same time the older, more experienced.
 
Originally posted by Catlion

Final 16 being humiliated and punished by all the other much smaller tigers in Everland
What you leave out is the fact that the footage you mention is from when he was just a sub-adult... When he became an adult, he had to be removed, so powerful he was.

Originally posted by Catlion

What decides the dominant tiger in an area is the one who is more in shape due to age, previous feeding, etc.
I don't know what "previous feeding" has to do with anything.

What decides the dominant tiger is, quite simply, who's the best among the two, and that is decided through fighting.
Info from: http://www.tigerwalah.com/season-round-up-kanha/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
Originally posted by Season Round Up: Kanha

A report of tiger sightings in Kanha Tiger Reserve ,season 2014-15.
During this season there were 5 males altogether in Mukki. Umarpani was the dominant male of the zone who had a tough rival namely ‘the Kingfisher male’. In the last few years Mukki was dominated by ‘Thin stripes male’ who was probably the father of Babathenga female’s last litter, but he was thrown out by the combined effort of Umarpani male, Kingfisher and Bheema. He had ruled all over mukki zone for almost four years, starting from 2010.The charge was taken over by the remaining four males once Thin Stripes male left Mukki, i.e. the Umarpani male, Kingfisher, Bheema and Link 7 male. Link 7 male was the main attraction of this season, a true show stopper. I would say that he was the most photographed Tiger in kanha this season after Munna.

Umarpani male and Kingfisher males were engaged in a very serious fight on 3rd of Jan 2015 in Singarpur meadow, which was documented by tourists. If I say this was the lifetime sight for people who witnessed it, won’t be wrong. They kept on fighting for three more months and both sides sustained heavy damages, but kudos to the forest department who kept their eyes on and gave medical assistance from time to time to both Tigers. Nature has its own ways of balancing the things in the jungle, but I would thank the forest department who saved the life of both males

Do you see how it changes when sources from real, wild tigers are used?..


Edited by Majingilane - 12-Apr-2016 at 10:24
‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows...those that do not run are removed’
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