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Bulldog
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Topic: KARS-AKHALKALAKI-TBILISI-BAKU RAILWAY DEAL Posted: 23-Jan-2007 at 20:40 |
REGIONAL LEADERS SEAL KARS-AKHALKALAKI-TBILISI-BAKU RAILWAY DEAL
By Fariz Ismailzade
Friday, January 19, 2007
Last Saturday, January 13, representatives from the governments of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey took a significant step forward in the realization of the Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi-Baku railway project, which will link Asia and Europe through the Caucasus. Representatives of three parties met in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, to finalize the negotiations over the project and sign a preliminary agreement.
Azerbaijans Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement on January 16 welcoming the agreement and calling it an important event in regional trade and economic cooperation (Press Release, January 16). Georgian Prime Minister Zurab Nogaideli also welcomed the project by saying that the railway link will become a bridge between Europe and Asia (Day.az, January 19).
Under the terms of the negotiated agreement, Azerbaijan will issue a loan to the Georgian government in the amount of $220 million for construction of a vital segment of the railway. Georgian Minister of Economic Development Georgy Arveladze, however, put this number at $300 million (Day.az, January 18). The loan will be virtually interest-free and is to be repaid within a period of 25 years using the profits generated by the railway. The Turkish government, for its part, will improve some portions of the railway in its own territory, to bring it up to the required standards.
Azerbaijans minister of transportation, Ziya Mammadov, told ANS-TV on January 18 that construction would start in the second half of 2007 and be completed within two or three years. I have no doubt that this project will be realized, Mammadov added.
The project comes amid protests from the Armenian lobby and a prohibition put in place last year by the U.S. Congress on financing the project from U.S. government funds. While two other major Caucasus projects, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline and the Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum gas pipeline, were strongly supported in U.S. political circles, the railway project received a cold shoulder, despite the fact that it will further deepen regional cooperation and expand the East-West trade corridor.
The reason for such a negative attitude is the Armenian lobby in the United States and its influence on U.S. policymakers. The railway, bypassing Armenia, further links Georgia and Azerbaijan to Western markets and puts Armenia behind the regional trade and economic cooperation. Last week, the Armenian Foreign Ministry expressed interest in joining the railway project, yet the Azerbaijani side responded by saying that Armenia must first liberate the occupied territories of Azerbaijan.
Nevertheless, despite opposition from Armenia and the lack of financial support from the United States, the Azerbaijani, Georgian, and Turkish governments are eager to move forward with the project. The U.S. can issue any decisions it wants, but there will be no problems with financing the project. There are other sources, said Georgian Minister of Foreign Affairs Gela Bezhuashvilli (Trend News Agency, January 10). The increasing revenues from Azerbaijans oil contracts with Western oil companies have provide the government with sufficient means to finance the project with its own funds.
Estimates set the cost of constructing the missing 98-kilometer section link of the Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi-Baku railway will cost around $400 million and raise the trade turnover by rail to 15-20 million tons per year. It will allow the direct shipment of goods and people between Asia and Europe and vice versa and further develop the regional infrastructure. It will be an essential part of the Silk Road strategy, which envisions the development of trade ties between the countries along the ancient Silk Road. China and Kazakhstan have also expressed interest in the realization of the railway project.
Given the recent political changes in Turkmenistan following the death of long-time President Saparmurat Niyazov, some analysts think that bilateral Azerbaijani-Turkmen relations will warm and revive regional trade and cooperation between these two Caspian states. If this scenario occurs, it will provide additional significance to the Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi-Baku railway.
Negotiations among Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Georgia are expected to resume in the next few days regarding the concrete details of the project. After this, the parliaments of these three countries will ratify the agreement and construction work will start. When completed, the project will be a major victory point for both Azerbaijan and Georgia, because both countries will increase their economic linkages and trade turnover, but even more importantly the railway will also reduce their dependence on Russian railways to ship goods to European markets.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Bulldog
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 09:51 |
The Southern Caucaus is transforming into an alternate energy line to Europe.
This along with many other projects are re-shaping the region, they have huge implications.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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mamikon
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 12:42 |
you know, to get a better view of relations between Armenia and
Azerbaijan and geopolitical events that might affect those relations,
you should look at articles NOT written by Armenians or Azeries...why
do people fail to grasp this.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 12:55 |
anyway, I think georgians are realy lucky because of armenian-azeri conflict. They benefitted this conflict much.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 13:19 |
Mamikon
you know, to get a better view of relations between Armenia and Azerbaijan and geopolitical events that might affect those relations, you should look at articles NOT written by Armenians or Azeries...why do people fail to grasp this.
Grasp what? this has nothing to do with Armenia, Armenia's not a part of it and she only has herself to blame. This is not about conflict, it's about making a prosperous future.
This railroad will be built, maybe soon the Armenian people will have enough with its government taking it on a downhill course making it strategically un-significant and making her miss out on every project which will dramatically change the region.
These project's impact will be felt over time, this is not just a short term development.
Mortaza is right, one of the biggest winners is Georgia, it's strategic importance will dramatically increase over the next years.
Edited by Bulldog - 25-Jan-2007 at 13:20
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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mamikon
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 13:22 |
Originally posted by bulldog
Grasp what? |
Quoting people from Armenia/Azerbaijan about issues that concern Armenia/Azerbaijan has no value
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Bulldog
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 13:31 |
This doesn't just concern Azerbaijan or Armenia, it concerns the whole region, the West potentially the East.
Edited by Bulldog - 25-Jan-2007 at 13:32
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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mamikon
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 16:22 |
lol, well obviously
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mamikon
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 16:31 |
Moreover, the Railway, if made, is going to be obsolete. The problems
in the Caucasus are not going to last forever, when situation is
normalized and all borders are open, which railway do you think is
going to be more efficient? the one through Armenia or Georgia.
Moreover, the railway itself will hamper the development of Georgian
ports on the Black Sea coast. When the railway is created,
hundreds of ports that Turkey has on the Black Sea coast will
outcompete the mere dozen that Georgia has, and in the long-run,
Georgia has much more to lose from this railway, than to gain.
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mamikon
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 16:37 |
Plus we got the Armenia-Iran pipeline, so screw you
Edited by mamikon - 25-Jan-2007 at 16:41
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 16:45 |
Originally posted by mamikon
Plus we got the Armenia-Iran pipeline, so screw you
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You had to bring it on. Let the flaming begin (please take this as a please to no flaming)
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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AyKurt
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 19:30 |
Originally posted by mamikon
Moreover, the Railway, if made, is going to be obsolete. The problems in the Caucasus are not going to last forever, when situation is normalized and all borders are open, which railway do you think is going to be more efficient? the one through Armenia or Georgia.
Moreover, the railway itself will hamper the development of Georgian ports on the Black Sea coast. When the railway is created, hundreds of ports that Turkey has on the Black Sea coast will outcompete the mere dozen that Georgia has, and in the long-run, Georgia has much more to lose from this railway, than to gain.
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I think you fail to grasp the realities involved.
Firstly if it was the Baku Kars railway then of course it would be more efficient to cut through Armenia but its not, its Baku Tblisi Akhalkalaki Kars railway.
The problems in the region may not last forever but unless the occupation of Karabagh ends and Armenia stops its hostile attitude towards Turkey then normal relations will not be forseeable for some time yet.
If you wanted to shift goods from Kars to Baku then it might take longer than a direct line but the railway will take in other destinations and will be the best option for quite some time. This railway will have huge economic potential for the main stops on the railway line.
In particular Kars, who had wanted to see an opening of the border with Armenia to reinvigorate its local economy. Kars will now be one of the major starting points for transporting Azeri and Georgian goods to the rest of Turkey and thus will have huge logistical importance.
Also all three countries have healthy growth rates so any losses Georgia's ports may have in the short term will soon enough be recovered as trade and wealth increase, also the benefits that the railway will have on increasing trade and movement of people will have an added positive impact on the economies of the three countries.
The route is also similar to the BTC pipeline which, although not as great as had been hoped, has increased job opportunities and investment.
So this railway will compliment the ports rather than compete with them.
Since when did better transportation have a bad economic affect?
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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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mamikon
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Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 23:44 |
The Armenian Diaspora is not under the control of the Armenian
government. THe Armenian officials have called for diplomatic talks
without any pre-conditions, it is the Turkish officials that do not
agree.
If a peace settlement does take place, most likely Karabakh Forces will
give back territories outside Karabakh under Karabakhi forces (save for
Lachin)...there really is no way that Karabakh will be returned unless
war starts once again...which also will not happen, unless Azerbiajn
wants to lose its new pipeline.
The railway would help Turkey, Azerbaijan thats a given. What about
Georgia? What makes you so sure that trade via the railway
would make up for the trade lost because of the
inefficiency of the ports.
The railway allows greater trade with Azerbaijan and Turkey. The ports
allow greater trade with Turkey, Ukraine, Moldova, Romania...etc
Originally posted by AyKurt
Since when did better transportation have a bad economic affect? |
well, this just might one of these cases
but then of course, I am Armenian, so I guess I am more prone to
criticize...whereas an Azeri would only see the benefit (as that
article posted by bulldog suggested), hence my first comment, that "we"
would have biased opinions on the matter.
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mamikon
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Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 00:01 |
You underestimate the importance of these ports. They let Georgia to
compete with Russia in getting goods from Europe to Central Asia, India
and other Asian countries
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Bulldog
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Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 05:53 |
Mamikon
The Armenian Diaspora is not under the control of the Armenian government. THe Armenian officials have called for diplomatic talks without any pre-conditions, it is the Turkish officials that do not agree.
Huh, there finally seeing some light and realising their narrow minded pollitics of suicide are getting them knowhere.
TUrkish officials often wanted to resume ties with Armenia, it's Armenia who caused all this agression.
Today Armenia needs Turkey, the events of today are shaping the next decades....Armenia has missed out, everytime I told this to an Armenian before they would just laugh pompously as if it meant nothing.
Who does Armenia think she is, now she's in trouble calling talks. It's time she woke up, today she isn't important in the region and nobody "has" to talk with her. If Armenia drop their ridiculous accusations, recognise the border with Turkey and remove themselves from Azerbaijan land then there will be no problem.
Mamikon If a peace settlement does take place, most likely Karabakh Forces will give back territories outside Karabakh under Karabakhi forces (save for Lachin)...there really is no way that Karabakh will be returned unless war starts once again...which also will not happen, unless Azerbiajn wants to lose its new pipeline.
Maybe not today but in around ten years or so the situation will be drastically different. Azerbaijan can sit, plan and wait for the right moment as it's involved in shaping the region's future and is strategically strong and getting more powerfull.
Mamikon The railway would help Turkey, Azerbaijan thats a given. What about Georgia? What makes you so sure that trade via the railway would make up for the trade lost because of the inefficiency of the ports.
Why will the ports become inefficient, plus this railway is a major project with Kazakistan and China potentially connecting. Georgia is hardly in any worse off position.
The railway allows greater trade with Azerbaijan and Turkey. The ports allow greater trade with Turkey, Ukraine, Moldova, Romania...etc
It's not like the ports become obsolete.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Mortaza
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Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 06:05 |
Huh, there finally seeing some light and realising their narrow minded pollitics of suicide are getting them knowhere.
TUrkish officials often wanted to resume ties with Armenia, it's Armenia who caused all this agression.
Huh? are you aware of what are you saying?ROA was already saying this. It is Turkey who refused connection and opening border.(for helping azeris.)
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Bulldog
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Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 08:03 |
Turkey has tried to offer a joint platform where Armenian and Turkiye can discuss their problems and look at each other's archives, this was rejected.
Besides, Turkiye today doesn't need Armenia today, Armenia needs Turkiye and that's the reality. It is Armenia who must bring something to the table. Sure you may say today the situation is not such a problem but in the next few decades the region is going to change drastically and she won't be a part of it.
Hopefully the Armenian diaspora won't destroy Armenia.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Alparslan
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Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 08:44 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
Huh, there finally seeing some light and realising their narrow minded pollitics of suicide are getting them knowhere.
TUrkish officials often wanted to resume ties with Armenia, it's Armenia who caused all this agression.
Huh? are you aware of what are you saying?ROA was already saying this. It is Turkey who refused connection and opening border.(for helping azeris.) |
Offffff Mortaza... You are unbelievable.
You are the most "intellectual" man that I have ever seen.
You are like a star in the darkest night.
You are a lighthouse in the middle of the sea.
You are like a toilet paper after having a sh*t.
Offfffff Mortaza offff......
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Mortaza
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Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 09:00 |
Alparslan.do you read newspaper?
Anyway, Good argument from you.(only for you, others will not see this words more than some childish game)
Anyway, I am curious, when you begin to call me puppet or traitor.
Turkey has tried to offer a joint platform where Armenian and Turkiye can discuss their problems and look at each other's archives, this was rejected.
Not all problems but only genocide issue.(I heard that Turkish goverment is thinking about bringing genocide issue to an international court.) Genocide claims are absolutely not only problems.
Besides, Turkiye today doesn't need Armenia today, Armenia needs Turkiye and that's the reality. It is Armenia who must bring something to the table. Sure you may say today the situation is not such a problem but in the next few decades the region is going to change drastically and she won't be a part of it.
I agree, but ROA did not put anything new to table. So They are repeating themself.Turkey will ignore this offers too.
The Armenian Diaspora is not under the control of the Armenian government.
Infact It is turning otherways, Diaspor power at ROA is increasing.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 09:16 |
Originally posted by Alparslan
Offffff Mortaza... You are unbelievable.
You are the most "intellectual" man that I have ever seen.
You are like a star in the darkest night.
You are a lighthouse in the middle of the sea.
You are like a toilet paper after having a sh*t.
Offfffff Mortaza offff...... |
back off Mortaza and a few other Turkish members/mods here can actaully hold a civilized discussion with other members without always defending/excusing everything Turkish. Hence why they are respected - Turkish POV or not.
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