Can T�rkiye Enter to northern ıraq??

Originally posted by Bulldog Please wake-up bro Well what's different?   Not all Kurds in Turkey are fighting, there are very sucessfull Kurds, Kurds in pollitics etc etc   Some Kurds want Federalism.   Some want total Seperatism.   Some just live everyday life and are apollitical.

The difference is huge. For example, Iran did not refer to kurds as "Mountain Persians" or anything of the sort for 70-80 years, and atleast since the Mullahs have taken over (I dont know about the Shah's time) they have been free to speak their language and practice their culture, as all other minorities in Iran can. They even have their own newspapers and television programs.

All of these are relatively new rights in Turkey for kurds.

And yes, you are right, not all Kurds in Turkey are fighting, just as not all Iraqi's are fighting the USA, but that still doesnt mean that they have emotional leanings one way or another.

And yes, some Kurds would love to live in a federalist Turkey, but as posts made right here by the majority of the Turks participating in this thread, its pretty evidence that the Turkish government is not willing to compromise on the issue.

Originally posted by Kerimoglu Hey Zagros, I have read your posts of last pages, and U MUST KNOW  that, even though u're a moderator, that never gives u right to tell anybody here to shut up. I am sure if anybody else did, u would definetely ban him. Think about it and understand that nobody afraids of u. Everybody have own thoughts and we must respect each other. U - yourself havent proved anything yet besides grading others together with Constantinus. Take it serious. Sometimes, u have to give up your positions too. that how it works and do not try to teach how to be clever to others, please. Do not take my words as a threat, but I have always tried to be realistic.   Kirkuk, both in national annnnnnnnnnd in Governmental level means a lot for Turks. Kurds, are free to speak their language and to teach it and in fact they do, u might not know, and dont speak if u dont. Erzurum is full of Kurds and they have schools their that teach Kurdish. Just look to the bury ceremony of Hrant Dink and see how generous turks we are to our neighbours, Armenians which behaves us not in the same way.   Guys, please, stop calling us fascist, ultra nationalist and bla bla bla. 1st of all those are all bsht. We dont even take them serious. The second, we are never ultra nationalists, or racists, or anything like that. And it is like swearing us, which actually is not right and out of rules of the forum. I wonder where does adminstration looks to!? And then, when bulldog answers to those, u call him racist as well. Hey is this some kind of a strategy??? We did not say anything about etnicity here???? It is just a status discussion. What the hell is wrong with u guys? Who gave permission to u Constantinus to grade us? Are we so poor and weak, that we will be influanced by the grading list of some guy who even I do not know anything about, besides his nick and avatar???? Oh come on man. Stop it. Who gave u permission Zagros to call "A Grey Dog"???? So if u call our beliefes like that (I am glad that u're not in Turkey, man, u should have bean dead already), then what if I call your Aslan, a little dirty fox cheeter????????????????????????????????????????????????????   If u want to get normal answers, then ask normal questions. Stop insulting us. No one afraids of u!!!

Wait wait wait... so there is no ultranationalism in Turkey?

That is totally different questions. there are, everywhere fascists, but that never means we fascists. Turks always know how to defend their honor. They will not let anybody to burn Turkish Flag and live there an hour after that. And that is not a racism, that is a patriotism. Lets not go away from the topic. If u want to discuss nationalism in Turkey, u may just open another topic and invite us there, or u may just ask me to do that.

And what's your problem, he's giving his individual opinion like everybody else, it doesn't make it true or false its just his perspective.

Ok, or, I am stupid, or u got me right but u dont want to show it, or u totally got me wrong, TheGame. Ok, for the last possible reason I will explain my oppinion once more. U bolded the part where i told that Zagros should havs been killed for his words if he was in Turkey. Why I told it, becouse calling wolf a dog, as an unsult, telling that we are racist here, is almost the same with burning flag. And there would be people who would kill the one who burns Turkish flag and that is patriotism. Even government will not punish him as much as they do for other violence. There are also groups or individuals in Turkey, that are Ultra Nationalists, or extremists. They are everywhere and their true patriotism is zero. Their stupid ideas are what makes them to be so. And at last, As far as I know those turkish guys here in this forum, They cannot be counted as an ultranationalists. We just discuss some issues here which freaks u out and I dont know really why? What, are we going to solve Turkish Kurdish problem here? U know, Bulldog is very right, u're really romantic and optimistic. U have to come to feet.  

Originally posted by Seko This thread is getting nowhere. The usual suspects making slick comments at eachother. Last chance to make this worthwhile or it will be closed.

I agree, lets just lock this thread, its gone off topic and the discussion is no longer interesting, its getting pretty vile.

Originally posted by Bulldog And what's your problem, he's giving his individual opinion like everybody else, it doesn't make it true or false its just his perspective.

No, I didnt mean anything, in his first post he just mentioned that there is no ultra nationalism, etc.. etc.., but then he contradicted himself by making nationalistic comments and saying that people who insult Turkey or the Turkish flag should die etc...

Is that not ultra nationalism? Thats the point I was trying to make.

Anyway, lock this thread.

The_Game

Originally posted by Kerimoglu U bolded the part where i told that Zagros should havs been killed for his words if he was in Turkey. Why I told it, becouse calling wolf a dog, as an unsult, telling that we are racist here, is almost the same with burning flag. And there would be people who would kill the one who burns Turkish flag and that is patriotism. Even government will not punish him as much as they do for other violence.

No my friend, this is not patriotism, this is (ultra)nationalism. A patriot doesn't kill somebody because he called wolf a dog or because he burnt his flag; a nationalist, blinded by his hate and anger, does. Moreover, if the government doesn't punish then as much as other murderers, then there's sth wrong with this government and the laws of this country.