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Question on tatars

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think View Drop Down
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  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Question on tatars
    Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 07:22
When did the Tatars become "Europeanized" because they dont essentially look typically mongoloid these days ?
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  Quote Aleksandr01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 18:19
Well, not all tatars came from Mongolia. In fact, most Tatars come from the seminomadic Bulgar states of Eastern Europe. These Bulgar tribes originated on the Caspian Sea sometime around 200 A.D., and migrated into the steppes just north of the Black Sea. The Bulgars joined the Attila and the Huns as they passed through their territory. After the Huns were defeated, the Bulgar tribes dispersed throughout Eastern Europe. When the Mongols invaded in the 13th century, the mounted Bulgar warriors offered little resistance, and when defeated, they took the name of their conquerors, the Kipchak Khanate.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 18:56
they took the name of their conquerors, the Kipchak Khanate.
The Qipchak Turks are neither Bulgar nor Mongol, but Turkic.
Although to be fair there is hardly any difference, especially on the eastern Ukraine Steppe.
The Qipchaks were there before the Mongol invasion.
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  Quote Karakhan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2007 at 23:11
Originally posted by think

When did the Tatars become "Europeanized" because they dont essentially look typically mongoloid these days ?


Tatars are not one group, although in the past it was much broader (Bashkorts, Nogays, Teleuts, for example were counted as tatars).  However most tend to be Kazan Tatars and a good chunk seem to have stronger "European" features.  However I've seen no shortage of those who could pass as Kazakh or Kalmyk. 
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 15:45
is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks?
leung
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 17:06
Originally posted by tommy

is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks?
Yes, hundred thousands of crimean tatars "moved" or actually forced to move by stalin to Turkey.
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 18:46
An intresting point is that the people of Republic of Azerbaijan used to be called by Russians as Persian Tatar.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 08:06
Russians called all Turkic people's Tatars.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 06:31
Originally posted by Bulldog

Russians called all Turkic people's Tatars.
Wrong. For example Russians never call Yakuts, Altai people,Bashkirs, Chuvash as such. But sometimes word Tatar is used as common noun for or Mongoloid people or even just bad people :) (f.e. "Not invited guest is worse than Tatar")
.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 07:38
Originally posted by tommy

is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks?


If you mean by Turks the anatolians yes there is.

If you mean by Turk as in Turkic then the Tatars are just a sub-branche of it.

Turkic->Kipchak->Tatar
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 12:36
Between Iranian(persians or Turks) tatar has a negative meaning.
It represents hords of barbarians. I remember I had and an azerbaijani feriend, whith light skin and mongolian eyes, somebody in Turkey had asked him if he was a Tatar, and my feriend had tought the turkish guy  was insulting him and had answered that" tatar is your dad". the Turkish guys had said" yes my dad is a tatar , how did you figure it out?"
A word with many diffrent meanings.
 
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 14:28
Originally posted by shinai

Between Iranian(persians or Turks) tatar has a negative meaning.
It represents hords of barbarians. I remember I had and an azerbaijani feriend, whith light skin and mongolian eyes, somebody in Turkey had asked him if he was a Tatar, and my feriend had tought the turkish guy  was insulting him and had answered that" tatar is your dad". the Turkish guys had said" yes my dad is a tatar , how did you figure it out?"
A word with many diffrent meanings.
 


LOL

hehe It is true that the anatolians(during teh Beyliks period) described Tatars as fears, Barbaric, Ruthless warriors
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 02:01
I MYSELF WERE THINKING TATARS ARE UGLY PEOPLE, UNTIL I SAW A TATAR GIRL AND.. NOW I AM MARRIED.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 06:05
Originally posted by shinai

I MYSELF WERE THINKING TATARS ARE UGLY PEOPLE, UNTIL I SAW A TATAR GIRL AND.. NOW I AM MARRIED.


with a Tatar girl or..?


if not this would be weird statementLOL
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 11:39
Originally posted by shinai

I MYSELF WERE THINKING TATARS ARE UGLY PEOPLE, UNTIL I SAW A TATAR GIRL AND.. NOW I AM MARRIED.
 
LOL or Cry
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  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 23:13
Originally posted by think

When did the Tatars become "Europeanized" because they dont essentially look typically mongoloid these days ?
I don't think the date is clear. We still have Tatars in Mongolia today who look exactly like the rest.


Edited by Naimani - 09-Jul-2007 at 23:14
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 07:28
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by tommy

is there ethnical connection between tartar and Turks?
Yes, hundred thousands of crimean tatars "moved" or actually forced to move by stalin to Turkey.
 
No Stalin forced to move Crimean Tatars to Ozbekistan.
 
Today there are too many Crimean Tatars in Centeral Anatolia(Especially in Eskisehir) but they moved there at the age of Ottoman Empire.
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2007 at 13:29

Does anyone have any pictures of all each of the different sub-ethnicities of Tatars?

It'd be interesting to compare.
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