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Who were Scythians?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who were Scythians?
    Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 02:21
I've read in National geographic an article about scythians, the author kinda indirectly said them to be european, and that they great jewelers, made great animals figures in gold, and that's no other nation of central asia actually posses this kinda craftsmenship, they said them to be "preeuropean people (caucasians)".  Nevertheless, scythians made kumis (mare's milk), but haven't heard any europeans actually produce such drink!!!???
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  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 03:28
North Iranian nomads.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 04:11
Well, by looking at the enzyme that breaks down milk, retained by only normads and some minor europeans, Scythans are definately normads for sure.
Grrr..
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2004 at 10:40
The other tribe named "Scythians" would live on northern Black Sea in ancient ages and they were known with their golden jewelries and goods.
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  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2004 at 13:32
Scythians were also known as Sakas weren't they?
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2004 at 13:32

Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

The other tribe named "Scythians" would live on northern Black Sea in ancient ages and they were known with their golden jewelries and goods.

These were the Scythians the topic discussion was referring to, AFAIK.  Not the 'Asiatic Scythians'.

τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2004 at 15:13
As I know the Sakas are ethnically a mixture of Indo European- Persian and Turkic nomads. They had a nomadic culture and they had a great leader- Alp Er Tunga- who is called as "Afrasyab" in "Shehname" of Firdevsi in Iranian history... 
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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 11:16

The Saka were a group of many Iranic (not Persian) peoples/tribes, but it doesn't really matter whether they were Turkic or Iranic because they shared the nomadic lifestyle, they were just another of those horse-riding steppe nomads.

All Scythians were Saka but not all Saka were Scythians. Appearently, "Skythoi" (Scyth) was the Greek name for the people called "Saka Pradraya" (Saka Across The Sea) by the Persians.

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  Quote Hrodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 15:52
Is there really a concrete ethnogenesis picture of the Schytian peoples?

I like the hypotesis, althought not fully accepted AFAIK, that ancestors
from Turanic people [Ural-Altaic (Turk-Mongolic) people], and ancestors
from Iranic people, got intermixed somewhere, for example near Ural
Mountains or Central Asia. Then the rest is history.
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  Quote Hrodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 15:59
Originally posted by bektemir

and that they great jewelers, made great animals
figures in gold, and that's no other nation of central asia actually posses
this kinda craftsmenship,

Things don't need to be great only because it is in gold, I think. There are
beautiful mesolitic shale artefacts, often terminated with deer heads
("magic rods"), that "shines" the same even if it is not produced in gold.
:-)
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  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2005 at 06:33

I've noticed that, for some reason, a lot of you are determined to draw an imaginary dividing line between Europe and Asia, especially when it comes to the Scythians and their time period.  The Scythians themselves did not recognize any such dividing line, as they claimed the entire steppe zone which spanned both continents.  It is a well-documented fact that a great caravan route existed between the Black Sea region and Bactria during the time of the Scythians.  Inhabitants of one area of the steppe zone where by no means isolated from inhabitants of another area.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2005 at 08:00
The true descendants of ancient Scythians are Sistanis, the people of Sakastan (Sistan) in Iran and Afghanistan, like this girl: http://www.iranonline.com/iran/baloochestan/images/zabol-gir l.html
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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2005 at 04:57

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

As I know the Sakas are ethnically a mixture of Indo European- Persian and Turkic nomads. They had a nomadic culture and they had a great leader- Alp Er Tunga- who is called as "Afrasyab" in "Shehname" of Firdevsi in Iranian history... 

Afrasyab was king of H'yaona and fought against some other iranian tribes because of their conversion to Zaratushtra reform. From this fact one may conclude that the H'yaonians shared the same pre-Zaratushtrian religion and therefore belonged to the same "world". Turan don't have to describe geograficaly or socially Turkic tribes whose at these times dwelled much further north. In fact Turks had different religious complex and therefore were not motivated to start religious war. 

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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 02:50

Originally posted by Rava

Afrasyab was king of H'yaona and fought against some other iranian tribes because of their conversion to Zaratushtra reform. From this fact one may conclude that the H'yaonians shared the same pre-Zaratushtrian religion and therefore belonged to the same "world". Turan don't have to describe geograficaly or socially Turkic tribes whose at these times dwelled much further north. In fact Turks had different religious complex and therefore were not motivated to start religious war. 

You cannot come up nothing by only looking at religion in this subject. There is not a necessity that Turks can only belong to "this specific relegion".  They can believe in many different religions as history shows us.

The resemblence between  H'yaona and Hun is worth to make attention on it.

Originally posted by Scyto-Sarmatian

I've noticed that, for some reason, a lot of you are determined to draw an imaginary dividing line between Europe and Asia, especially when it comes to the Scythians and their time period.  The Scythians themselves did not recognize any such dividing line, as they claimed the entire steppe zone which spanned both continents.  It is a well-documented fact that a great caravan route existed between the Black Sea region and Bactria during the time of the Scythians.  Inhabitants of one area of the steppe zone where by no means isolated from inhabitants of another area.

Yes. I am completely agreed with you.........



Edited by Alparslan
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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 06:37
H'yaona (Xion) were the ancestors of the Chionites. Some sources called them Hunni. I don't think they were ural-altaic people.
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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2005 at 06:09
Than what were they?
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2005 at 03:24

Hi Bektemir - welcome to All Empires

I was thinking that this thread sounded a bit familiar - went looking and found the old thread in the Iranian Hisotry forum:  http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=918& PN=2

There are some links in that thread to a few Scythian artifacts web sites showing the level of workmanship and creativity - spectacular stuff!

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  Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 16:40

 It is known that, though of Iranic (I think that's the correct word!) origin, there where some mixing between Sakae/Scytians and other "asian-looking" races.

It is quite possible that, among the leading classes, political marriages would make ethnic mixing more common than among the common people.

At the Pazyryk kurgan, for instance, the man burried there is of "asian" stock (though I don't if it's turkic or mongol, or something else). Interestingly enoght, he had a fake beard. One can suppose that the beard was a symbol of masculinity and, due to his "asian" race, this chief had to wear a fake beard because he would lack a proper one (asians have much less beard that europeans).

In a recently discovered tomb in the Afghan border, the chief burried there is mixed "iranic-asian" as well, even if he is surrounded by Sakae items.

But anyway, and has far as I know, both from the Greek authors and for the remainning sources, the is no evidence whatsoever attesting the Scytians as nothing else but of Iranic stock. Where they of hunnic stock and I'm sure that the european authors would have written about it, namely by saying that the Scytians were ugly, bad looking fellows, etc., etc., etc., just like they did when regarding the Hunns (and unlike what they did regarding the Ephtalites, who looked similar to the persians, at least accordingly to chinese sources, and "didn't had ugly features" accordingly to Procopius).

(BTW, what's the difference between iranic, arian and persian?)

Best

Sikander

 

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  Quote Idanthyrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2005 at 16:09

Originally posted by Sikander

At the Pazyryk kurgan, for instance, the man burried there is of "asian" stock (though I don't if it's turkic or mongol, or something else). Interestingly enoght, he had a fake beard. One can suppose that the beard was a symbol of masculinity and, due to his "asian" race, this chief had to wear a fake beard because he would lack a proper one (asians have much less beard that europeans).

There are acutally hundreds of Kurgans in the vicinity of Pazyryk. Some of them entomb asiatic scythian cheiftans whereas at others iranian scyths are buried. There is definatly enough archealogical evidence to support that there was significant intermarrage and cross-cultural polination that far east. I would also tend to agree with earlier posts about the fact that many scholars have some urge to to classify scythians and sacas as though they were entirly different peoples when in actuality the cultures of the stepe all had a shared cultural heritage.

As far as I know, aryan is just the old fashioned term for the indo-european race. It became unpopular after WWII. 

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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2005 at 21:07

Originally posted by demon

Well, by looking at the enzyme that breaks down milk, retained by only normads and some minor europeans, Scythans are definately normads for sure.

By "enzyme" I assume you mean lactase (which "breaks down" lactose--milk sugar).

This enzyme is produced by various beneficial bacteria, like lactobacillus acidophilus, used in making yogurt, kefir, etc.

The specific bacteria strains and fermentation recipe used for making koumiss (fermented mare's milk) was taken by the Russians, and used with cow's milk to make kefir.

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I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


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