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The Middle Byzantine Military (610-1204)
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Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios

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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Middle Byzantine Military (610-1204)
    Posted: 08-Dec-2006 at 18:58
Originally posted by Brainstorm

No- a message appears :"only members with sufficient posts (or smth like this) are allowed to enter this post"
 
Before AE went offline, I used to get this message almost every time that I clicked the "Insert Image" button on the control panel.  I just had to open and close it a couple times and then it would work for me.  Don't ask me what eventually allowed it to work because I have no clue!  LOL
 
Originally posted by CPWN

Middle Byzantine?
 
Well, I would say yes, probably 9th-13th centuries or thereabout.  However, in some depictions of icon saints in the 14th and 15th centuries, we can see some of the same equipment.  But therein lies the same question that always lingers: does iconography depict reality, or half-reality, half-classicization/stylization?
 
But what indicates that these are middle Byzantine soldiers are the following. 
 
1. The klibanion chest protection
 
2. Leather pteryges around the waist and on the shoulders
 
3. Wooden/metal vambraces on the forearms
 
4. circular shield
 
But I will say that the helmet on the figure at the far left looks late Byzantine.
 
Late Byzantine Military
Ottoman perceptions of the Americas
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 02:54
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

But I will say that the helmet on the figure at the far left looks late Byzantine.

Thumbs Up Helmets with visor were used mostly in the 13th century on.
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 07:18


At last,the whole battle scene.
Heavily armed horsemen with spears charge causing tremendous losses to their opponents.
One of the attackers seems to wear a "muscled cuirass"
Also note the router who is firing back.His shirt,seems characteristic nomad fashion style as his tactics (the parthian arrow) shooting  back while galloping.


Edited by Brainstorm - 16-Dec-2006 at 07:28
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 10:02
Hi!
 
Where is this picture from?
Was it a battle against saracens or maybe bolgars or pechenegs etc?
 
And: do yuo have it larger?
 
TSZ
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 10:54
Originally posted by Tar Szernd

Hi!
Where is this picture from?
Was it a battle against saracens or maybe bolgars or pechenegs etc?
And: do yuo have it larger?
TSZ


It's from an illuminated manuscript of Mount.Athos-11th century.
As long as i can remember it depicts a biblical scene.
I have it larger ,but it's over 200 kb and cannot be uploaded.
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 00:37
Hi!
 
Could you send me to tzh@freemail.hu?
 
TSZ
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 00:41
I first thought that it's a picture about a big kiev rus-bulgarian-hungarian-pecheneg (losted) campaign against Byzantium in 970.
 
TSZ
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 09:05
There were some units of infantry called Menlaviatoi and Skutatoi during the Early Empire? Could anyone give me a description of them? How were they armoured and how were they organized and how did they fight and so on...

What other infantry types were there?
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 09:29


Skoutatos.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote CPWN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 23:58
Hi,dear Brainstorm,could you send me ,too? please.....

klibanionphoroi@gmail.com

A 12th century skoutatoi


Menaulion ,origional was a hunting spear maybe for boars,about 2.5meters long, but got a 45-50cm long with the shape of a broad bladed winged head and as thick as a man could grasp. Especially effective against kataphraktoi after the kontaratoi's pikes had been smashed, and whose users must be "brave and indomitable in strength".



Edited by CPWN - 18-Dec-2006 at 00:15
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Posts: 0 		  Quote CPWN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2006 at 00:11
http://www.allempires.com/Forum/uploads/20061217_092251_Per-Skoutatos.jpg

Skoutatois.

--------------------------------------------

Amzaing!!!

Do you have other those kind pictures? I want to see that so much!!!Wink


Edited by CPWN - 18-Dec-2006 at 00:46
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2006 at 03:04
Yes ,i have ..but guys dont ask me to send-u can copy from here-cant u ?
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Posts: 0 		  Quote CPWN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 05:56
Originally posted by Brainstorm

Yes ,i have ..but guys dont ask me to send-u can copy from here-cant u ?


Sorry, I just ask the larger one which cannot be uploaded.Confused

Loving to collect byzantine pictures.Smile
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 11:35

A battle scene from the same 11th cent manuscript.
Heavy cavalry attacks light Cavalry and defeats it.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote CPWN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 23:23
Mix of Byzantine flag.
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 10:11
Hi Brainsorm!!
What's the title of the manuscript? And: do you have other pictures ,like this(with mounted archers)?
 
TSZ
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 10:17
Hi!
 
what do you think: the nomads are wearing helmets or caps?
And: what kind of soldier is killed on the ground? Nomad or greek? And: is he wearing an armour?
 
TSZ
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 10:28
It's interesting, that Byzantium had such warriors too (nomads).
F.e: vardariot turks (these were hungarians, settled by the greeks by the Vardar river), seldjucks, pechenegs etc. 
 
Do you know the battle by Zimony between hungarians (paions) and greeks? It was in the 1140's (maybe:-), in the hun. army were mostly hungarian and austrian knights (just cavalary), by the greeks infantry, seldjucks, other muslims, greeks, armenians etc. The hungarians attacked in one big formation, the greeks in many little units, their battle line was deep. And: the greeks had clubs (maces, or what , I don't know the correct name), the hungarians not. So we lost:-/. Later the greeks said that after the sword of both sides were chipped, the greeks binged out their war clubs and killed a lot of the hungarians.
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 10:35
Hi!
 
Frank cavalary versus late-awars. (Pippin's and Carl's campaign against the awarians in the Carpathian basin in the 790's, Stuttgarter Bilderpsalter):
 
I'll send the picture if someone told me, how to do this:-)


Edited by Tar Szernd - 21-Dec-2006 at 05:27
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 12:21
Tar Szernd, could you avoid multiple posting from now on? There is the edit option too.
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