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Nestorian
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Topic: The Middle Byzantine Military (610-1204) Posted: 10-Jul-2008 at 09:16 |
yep, i have heard of St John of Damascus, an insider's view of Islamic rule.
Considering his background and career as a civil servant of the Ummayads, his position tells us a lot of why the Arabs did not resort to persecution, they needed the Christians to admiinister their empire. IN addition, the Christians were responsible for translating Greek texts into Arabic via the Syriac language.
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Isa al-Masih, both God and Man, divine and human, flesh and spirit, saviour, servant and sovereign
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 10-Jul-2008 at 09:34 |
The translations came way after John died.
I don't deny persecution of the christians existance, what I wanted to say that it (as a systematic long term and heavy handed policy) came quite late in the period only after newly zealos Islamized Turks and Kurds came to rule the areas where there were lots of Christians. Before that during the reign of the Rashidun, who conquered those lands, and Ummayyads, who came immediately after them, the intolerance was minimal, keeping the fact that we are talking about the 7th century not the 21st one. Christians were forbidden from some of their rights out of fear because they were still the majority and their sympathies lied due north, but many of these were scrapped and or ignored especially during the stages when the state was powerful and Byzantine threat was minimal.
Al-Jassas
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Count Belisarius
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Magister Militum
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Posted: 25-Jul-2008 at 22:55 |
Hi can anyone tell me the names of a klibanophoros' equipment?
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Brainstorm
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Posted: 26-Jul-2008 at 12:46 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
Hi can anyone tell me the names of a klibanophoros' equipment? |
Kassidion = helmet katafhenion = chainmail protective of head,adjust to the helmet klibanion (or lorikion) = cuirass zava = chainmail shirt worn inside of klibanion pteryges = metal/leather protection of lower torso and upper arms,adjust to klibanion cheiropsella (/manikellia) = metal protection of arms podopsella (/chalkotuva)= metal protection of legs spathion = straight sword paramerion = slightly curved sword apelatikion (/matzoukion) = mace tzikourion = battle axe martzovavoulon = short metal javelin toxon = bow
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 26-Jul-2008 at 15:17 |
thank you can you tell you tell me the names of the klibnaophoros' horses armor and the name of his lance case and can you go into detail on his equipment and what was the of the klibanophoros' sabaton?
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Byzantine Emperor
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Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios
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Posted: 26-Jul-2008 at 23:19 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
thank you can you tell you tell me the names of the klibnaophoros' horses armor and the name of his lance case and can you go into detail on his equipment and what was the of the klibanophoros' sabaton? |
Unfortunately we do not have a full description of the technical terms associated with the equipment of the klibanophoros like we see for ancient Greek cavalry in the writings of Xenophon, Arrian, and other authors. The list provided by Brainstorm is quite good. For more information you should definitely check out:
Eric McGeer, Sowing the Dragon's Teeth: Byzantine Warfare in the Tenth Century. Washington, D.C.: Dumbarton Oaks Press, 1995.
Also, in one of Ammianus Marcellinus' volumes, he gives a description of the heavy cavalry in a triumphal procession.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 27-Jul-2008 at 15:36 |
Thanks, also I read that manzikert saw the end of the Klibanophoros , but I also read that Alexius Commenus revived them, is this true?
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Guests
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 20:06 |
Procopius, in his first book, on the first few pages, gives the ideal picture of the cavalryman of his day (6th century).
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 23:32 |
Thanks man. Can anyone tell me about the post manzikert cataphract?.
Edited by Count Belisarius - 03-Aug-2008 at 00:18
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Byzantine Emperor
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Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios
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Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 21:16 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
Thanks man. Can anyone tell me about the post manzikert cataphract?. |
The sources are quite sparse about the types of cavalry that existed in the late period. I am willing to believe that some kind of "heavy" cavalry unit operated during this time. Instead of being supported by the state directly through a salary or estates, later kataphraktoi were must likely paid in grants of pronoia. Depending on the size and structure of this grant, the unit would be equipped accordingly. It was most likely not as heavily armed as in the early or Phokan periods.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 23:54 |
Thanks amigo, I just wondered because I saw, what looked a lot like a klibanophoros in an osprey book. The man had a conical helm a chainmail aventail, chainmail hauberk and chausses, he was holding a kontos, (not sure why Angus Macbride didn't draw him with a spathion) and his horse had lamellar caparisons and a lamellar chanfron and crinet, also wouldn't he have had a bow and thureos?.
Edited by Count Belisarius - 08-Aug-2008 at 00:24
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 15:04 |
Is that the illustration in the Byzantine Armies 1118-1461 title? If so, part of the description does say that such a well-armored man would have been rather rare. And indeed with the dwindling empire, unless a soldier found the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow, it would have been incredibly difficult to afford such an extensive kit.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 15:15 |
It did say he probably belonged to an elite guard unit but that doesn't sound too moch different from the early klibanophoroi.
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Posted: 20-Aug-2008 at 15:36 |
Very true; whereas there were probably close to 1,000 in the later 10th century, by the late empire their numbers would be much, much less. There is probably no way to figure out how few they really were, unfortunately. Byzantine Emperor knows a lot more about the late empire than I do, I'll let him come up with an answer!
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Nestorian
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 03:20 |
Work in progress.
Basilikoi Anthropoi late 9th century. consisting of select Pharganoi, Chazaroi, Alanoi and other Tourkoi Hetaereia
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Isa al-Masih, both God and Man, divine and human, flesh and spirit, saviour, servant and sovereign
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Darius of Parsa
Colonel
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 03:48 |
Very impressive Nestorian. I see you posses much artistic talent.
Edited by Darius of Parsa - 24-Sep-2008 at 03:48
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What is the officer problem?
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 04:33 |
Pretty cool I'd love to see the finished product he looks a lot like a klibnaophoros doesn't he?
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Nestorian
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Posted: 25-Sep-2008 at 03:40 |
Its a late 9th century Basilikoi Anthropoi.
They are essentially the "Emperor's men" consisting of elite soldiers drawn from native or mercenary forces such as the Hetaereia (companions). Turkic warriors were fairly prominent in the 9th century so they would most likely have dominated the regiment.
As you can see, a number of Central Asian influences are fairly dominant but still essentially "Roman".
I know head is small, will adjust later :)
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Isa al-Masih, both God and Man, divine and human, flesh and spirit, saviour, servant and sovereign
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 19:00 |
I saw picture in my byzantine armies book that showed reliefs from a tenth cnetury casket on were armenian troops with cuirasses that looked similar to the old roman lorica segmenatas can anyone tell me anything about that?
Thanks
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Posted: 10-Oct-2008 at 12:54 |
Byzantine Atnanatoi 10th century Tsimiskis
creator:akritis
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