Hazara and Pan-Turk

Originally posted by omshanti I might be mistaken , but I thought that the Kushan empire was build by a group of Indo-European people related to Tocharians. How can Hazara people be descendants of an Indo-European people?

Originally posted by mamikon what  do you have any evidence behind the claim that Pashtuns shaved Buddha's face?

Hazaras

Main article: Hazara

Historically, the Hazara seem to have Turkic-Mongolian origins, but with some Caucasoid admixture from surrounding groups. Linguistically though the Hazara speak Persian, but their variant is interspersed with more Mongolian words, but this is also the case with many Turkic languages such as Uzbek. It may simply be the case that the Hazara are of Uyghur Turkic origin as many Turks accompanied the Mongol armies or arrived in the region long before the Mongols. It is however commonly believed by many Afghans that the Hazara are descendants of Genghis Khan's army, which marched into the area during the 12th century. Proponents of this view hold that many of the Mongol soldiers and their family members settled in the area and remained there after the Mongol empire dissolved in the 13th century, converting to Islam and adopting local customs. The theory regarding a more Turkic origin for the Hazara has equal validity and the relatively small number of actual Mongols in comparison to Turks makes it more likely that the Hazara are descendants of Turkic invaders who were Persianized over time. Unlike most Afghans the Hazara are Shia, which has often set them apart from their neighbors.

Ok . First of all I know that there are many biased and nationalistic posts and topics in the All empires and I usually ignore them , however since  I have already  made the mistake of  posting once  in this topic  I have to keep going.

Originally posted by OSMANLI SelamAleykum, welcome Kushan brother to AE!   I think this was due to Islamic reasons and not due to the statues having Mongoliod faces.   P.S I like the picture below the best, so cute Originally posted by Great Kushan

Originally posted by Great Kushan To Omnashti, � Quote "I do not see any reason for the British to lie and make a fake tale about the time of the arrival of Hazara people in the region. The time of the arrival of Hazara people� does not seem to make any difference for the British�since they were already there for centuries when the British came." � Did you the Pashtun�King's money and weapon where come from,�who massacred 62% of Hazara population. from The British. Apart from that I have seen�almost all British journalists and historic books refering Hazaras to Genghis khan descendents. �

Great Kushan Thank you for your reply.
When I wrote�that I do not see any reason for the British to lie �or make a fake tale , I was trying to say that since there seems to be no�benefit �for the British to lie ,we cannot assume what they say to be a complete lie or propaganda. Does anybody know of any reason why it might�have �been of benefit for the British to have lied as to when the Hazara people arrived in that region?

From what we have discussed so far, it is clear that there are 3� theories or beliefs regarding the origin and the time of the arrival of Hazara people in that region.
1. They are� the descendants of the army of Genghiz-khan which marched�in to the area in the 12th century AD.

2. They�are the descendants of��Turkic peoples who migrated in to the area during the time of the expansion of Turkic peoples to the south and west which happened� in �the 6th�- 11th century AD.

3. They are the desendants of the kushani people who build the Kushani empire during the 1st� - 3rd century AD and who constructed the great buddhas in Bamyan.

In my opinion it is more likely to be the combination of the� theory 1 and� theory 2.�It is likely that �some Turkic peoples settled in that region some time between 6th and 11th century and then assimilated the remains of the Genghiz -khan s army in the 12th century, hence the common belief of Hazara people being the descendants of the Genghiz-khan .
I can see�where� theory �3 comes from. It is probabably because the great buddhas stand in Bamyan which� is inhabited by Hazara people now and is a part of �Hazarajat in modern time. It is natural for people to think that their ancestors built what stands where they live now.There are a�few reasons that I do not think the theory 3 is valid . First the Koshani people are known to have been a group of Indo-European people. Second they are known to have formed the basis of Pashton ethnogenesis alongside the Hephthalites. Guessing from those two reasons�it is quite safe to assume that the Koshani people were of caucasoid race, especially since this is�centuries �before the Turkic peoples expansion to the south and west.� I can see that some Hazara people show some caucasoid admixture, but in majority they�exhibit �much stronger if not pure mongoloid features.
(Please note that I am not using the words caucasoid and mongoloid in any racist terms. Race can be a great tool in order to know people s �history and origins if used properly.)
P.S These are� only my opinions and I am not pushing anything as an absolute fact.
    
    

Edited by omshanti - 29-Nov-2006 at 22:41

Edited by gok_toruk - 11-Nov-2006 at 04:48

Originally posted by GhengisKhan Finally,arae Hazaras Turkic or not?

Firstly common mis-conceptions must be cleared up.