Does Greece have ottoman traces???

Hidden face, you are an evil evil evil man.

Originally posted by Bulldog p.s do you drink "Ayran" in Greece? a Yoghurty drink.

Originally posted by Bulldog    I hope they don't tell me that "Trojans" are Turks either. Baglama has no direct relation to any Hitite instrument, similarities between stringed instruments can be seen in many parts of the world as I explained using the diagram in my last post. Any remote closeness you try to draw with Hitite instruments are nothing but a coincidence.

Originally posted by The Hidden Face 5) Karagoz-Hacivat is most probably an indian tradition, and came to Turkey via Egypt.

Hidden_Face

So, this thread had gone from discussing the Ottoman roots of Greece to denying the Arabic connections and traditions of the Ottomans. Such a hard task to be a pan-Turkist...

Exactly , the values of cultural and social heritages interchanged amongst each other .

Originally posted by Bulldog Ellin There no longer remains any one in Smyrna who knows how to make carpets." Go and visit the areas around the Izmir and you'll realise that your just making a fool out of yourself.

Well clearly it was a skill that was picked up thanks to others, like the Persians, Armenians, Greeks, etc.  The Turks were not in the forefront of rug/carpet making.

Originally posted by Bulldog Akritas Phyllo today is "Yufka", Turks had an obession with rolling the thinest dough possible, my source above explains this in detail. Turks had this dish when they were in Eastern Turkistan/ modern Xinjiang province.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't think Asians were big on dairy products and doughy foods.

Yufka or Yioufkades (which I'm thinking may be a Persian term, but that's as far as it goes) was a part of the Pontian cuisine, well before the advent of Turks in the area.

Then again, a lot of the native folk of Asia Minor were forcefully integrated into identifying themselves as Turks, so ofcourse a lot of their traditional practices will be pawned off or showcased as Turkish.

Originally posted by Bulldog What is certain is that "Baklava" became what we now know to be Baklava in the Ottoman kitchen's.

The Armenians, as their Kingdom was located on ancient Spice and Silk Routes, integrated for the first time the cinnamon and cloves into the texture of baklava. The Arabs introduced the rose-water and cardamom. The taste changed in subtle nuances as the recipe started crossing borders. To the north of its birthplace, baklava was being baked and served in the palaces of the ancient Persian kingdom. To the west, it was baked in the kitchens of the wealthy Roman mansions, and then in the kitchens of the Byzantine Empire until the fall of the latter in 1453 A.D

THE PERFECTION:
In the 15th Century A.D., the Ottomans invaded Constantinople to the west, and they also expanded their eastern territories to cover most of ancient Assyrian lands and the entire Armenian Kingdom. The Byzanthion Empire came to an end, and in the east Persian Kingdom lost its western provinces to the invaders. For four hundred years from 16th Century on, until the decline of Ottoman Empire in 19th Century, the kitchens of Imperial Ottoman Palace in Constantinople became the ultimate culinary hub of the empire.

The artisans and craftsmen of all Guilds, the bakers, cooks and pastry chefs who worked in the Ottoman palaces, at the mansions of Pashas and Viziers, and at Provincial Governor (Vali) residences etc., had to be recruited from various ethnic groups that composed the empire. Armenian, Greek, Persian, Egyptian, Assyrian and occasionally Serbian, Hungarian or even French chefs were brought to Constantinople, to be employed at the kitchens of the wealthy. These chefs contributed enormously to the interaction and to the refinement of the art of cooking and pastry-making of an Empire that covered a vast region to include the Balkans, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Persia, Armenia, Iraq and entire Mesopotamia, Palestine, Egypt, North Africa and the Mediterranean and Aegean islands. Towards the end of 19th Century, small pastry-shops started to appear in Constantinople and in major Provincial capitals, to cater the middle class, but the Ottoman Palace have always remained the top culinary "academy" of the Empire, until its end in 1923.
http://www.kitchenproject.com/history/Baklava.htm

Classic case of the Turks wanting to take the credit from the efforts of others.

Baklava was a big part of the Greek cuisine (not necessarily the founders) well before the Turkish Invasion.

Simonis Kafiris has done a fair bit of research and put together a book called "With almonds, walnuts and honey - An Anthology of Greek Sweets".  The most popular Greek sweet was the Gastrin / γαστριν (in Ancient Greece), then the kopti / κοπτή (Byzantine), and Baklavas / μπακλαβάς (modern Greece), which are all inter-connected.

The Greeks developed a liking for the sweet taste of the dessert, thanks to the trade connections with the Assyrians (in the 8th century BC), and brought it back with them to the bakeries of Athens.
By the 3rd century BC, there was no Greek household that didn't serve 'baklava'.
http://www.noikokyra.gr/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=452

Halva, baklava, boureki, etc contain classical/traditional Greek ingredients
from Antiquity or the Byzantine era, the basic of them being "dough, sesame, wheat, nuts, honey and various fruits".
http://www.noikokyra.gr/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=452

In the "Deipnosofistai", like Akritas mentioned, which dates back to
100 AD, states a recipe for Kopi / κοπή which contains "filo pastry layers filled with nuts, honey, sesame and poppy seeds" (XIV, 647-648)

Originally posted by Bulldog Yoghurt based dishes etc etc were passed to Greek culture via the Turks   p.s do you drink "Ayran" in Greece? a Yoghurty drink.

Originally posted by Akritas Actually introduced to the Greek mainlanders from the Pontian Greeks and is known as Ayriani!!!!.One more common trace.Dont ask me the origin because I am not PontianLOL

That's bullsh*t, that yoghurt is a Turkish concoction.
It doesn't take much brains to figure out how to make it, and Greeks being an agrarian peoples also, wouldn't have taken them long to figure out how to make it.. and that goes for other nations also.

Like I mentioned earlier, didn't think dairy was a big part of the Asiatic diet. 

The Pontians do make a yoghurt drink, but it's called Tun, from what I know, not Ayran.
I'm sure, had it been given to them by the Turks, they would've kept the same term/label.