Hidden_Face
Hittite B.C. 3000, According to the Anatolian Civilizations Museum, which is in Ankara/Turkey, what we see here is Baglama, as a Hittite Instrument.
Baglama? where? that's not evidence its a damaged stone-inscription, this is not proof its a manipulation of history to suit your desires.
Unless your suggesting the Ancient Turks had relations with the Hitite's your theory is absurd.
The Kopuz has existed for thousands of years and it has many similar instruments through-out Central Asia and Eastern countries.
These intruments are not common in the Middle-East.
Hidden_Face
This 5000 years old hittite relief shows almost exact shape of Baglama with even the special accessories such as "Pskl."
Don't tell me that your an "Anatolianist".
The instrument is not exactly the same shape, is held in a different position a position resembling more the PI-PA of China, the adition is a decoration for a doll, it doesn't exist on Turkic Baglama's and has no significance.
"Similar" instruments in various geographical areas point to two points.
1. That some instruments are so ancient that they were used before Humans started branching off into nations.
2. That similar looking instruments have been created by different societies, them looking similar are nothing but a coincidence and a matter of logic ie putting together a structure for creating sound via vibrations.
For example
The "Jews Harp" instrument an ancient pluck string instrument, similar instruments have been found in the areas listed, also in Xiong-Nu tombs.
This isn't a Turkic site, Turkish sources have no credibility as not many here can read them, there are no sources, no evidence no research shown.
The theories of Anatolianists are very silly. They believe that people in Turkey today are continuations of ancient Anatolians (culturally), so anything found in the areas of Turkey are somehow connected to what is available today.
They simply find anything similar, connect it and then claim that people were always doing this or that and that it just re-appeared one day.
This of-course has no credibility, the Baglama family of instruments does not have equilavents in the Middle East and Europe. However, in Central Asia and the Far-East there are many similar instruments.
Hidden_Face
The Oud is a traditional instrument for Turkish Classical Music. And Since Turkish Classical Music is a continuation of Byzantine Music
No its not.
Turkish Classical music is Turkish Classical music.
It has far more Arabic and Persian elements than Byzantine, there are very little Byzantine influences.
Ussak, Cargak, Buselik Makam's for example, Taksim, Fasil, Sema, Tug/Tuy etc etc
The Mehteran is an ancient Turkic form of music deriving from Tug music culture of the Gok-Turks, more previously the Huns Xiong-nu etc
Shamanic cultures are musical cultures, they have influence many cultures with their dances and music.
Oud developed in the East, from the East it made it's way to the West.
Hidden_Face
As for the Baklava issue,
Sorry but your just making it up as you go along.
The history of Baklava has been studied in-depth and I provided an objective analyses of this above.
Baklava in origin is Turkic as if the Yufka used to make it.
From Central Asia it was developed further in the Ottoman Kitchen and became what we today know as Baklava.
Baklava is not Greek and nobody but Greek biased historians claim this.
Bakava is not even made in Greece, what you call Baklava is not Baklava its a similar imitation which doesn't use the same methods.
Hidden_Face
Doner is a middle eastern food again. No need to prove.
No need to proove?
, I sugges you find another forum, history is ALL ABOUT PROVING, researching, using credible and objective sources.
If you can't proove it then how can you claim it.
Doner is Turkic in etymology meaning "to turn/spin". Shashlik is a common dish in Central Asia, Cag Kebab is also similar to Doner and is used in Central Asia.
It is Middle Eastern today due to the Ottoman and Seljuk influence.
Akritas
This kind of cofee originated from the Arabs brough it in Constantinople
It looks like I'm going to have to go through this all again.
Istanbul was introduced to coffee in 1543 during the reign of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent by zdemir Pasha. There was a Coffee drink already in existance in Ethiopia and Yemen.
However, it was in the Ottoman Kitchen that the drink "Turkish Coffee" was created.
Yes, Turkish Coffee was created it didn't always exist it has a creation date as does Turkish Delight.
Coffee soon became a vital part of palace cuisine and was very popular in court. The position of Chief Coffee Maker (kahvecibaşı) was added to the roster of court functionaries. The Chief Coffee Maker's duty was to brew the Sultan's or his patron's coffee, and was chosen for his loyalty and ability to keep secrets. The annals of Ottoman History record a number of Chief Coffee Makers who rose through the ranks to become Grand Viziers to the Sultan.
Coffee soon spread from the palace to grand mansions, and from grand mansions to the homes of the public. The people of Istanbul quickly became enamoured with the beverage. Green coffee beans were purchased and then roasted at home on pans. The beans were then ground in mortars and brewed in coffeepots known as "cezve".
They created this "recipie".
The Coffee in Arabia was known as "Mirra", Mirra is still drank in areas of South-Eastern Turkey, if you go to a Cafe there you can have Turkish Coffee or Mirra.
Why is this so hard to understand? nobody tells Itallians that their coffee is Brazillian or East African.
Konstantinius
Aren't those rugs called "Persian" rugs?
No, Persian Rugs and Turkish Rugs are different. Turkish rugs use the "Turkish Knot", Persian's use the "Persian Knot". Persian designs are more naturalist ie human figures, Turkic designs are more symetrical, both have deep meanings for their symbols and they both can tell whole stories.
Ancient Turkic rugs thousands of years old were found using the same knot system in Payrzyk. Also near-by other tombs had ancient Persian carpet's.
Konstantinius
And the baglama, Ottoman as it might be, wasn't derived from the Persian sh*tar?
No, Baglama is Turkic like the Ilkig, Kopuz, Dombra etc are, these were used by Shamans and still are in Tengrist areas.
Konstantinius
Wasn't the Grand Vezyr of the Porte also a title in the Ummayad and Abbasid Caliphates?
Yes
Ellin
There no longer remains any one in Smyrna who knows how to make carpets."
Go and visit the areas around the Izmir and you'll realise that your just making a fool out of yourself.
Edited by Bulldog - 04-Nov-2006 at 15:16