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  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: northern and southern Europe
    Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 00:51
They dont look anything like the sterotypical Mestizo^

Im not from America, but because Illegal immigration is a hot topic that is discussed everywhere on forums, you will become an expert on American politics through the internet LOL

Question: Are the Chiliean natives the same as Peruvians an Aztecs ?


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 01:08
Well, not at all. There are physical differences between Natives that are quite amazing. The Native of the Andes and Aztecs are dark skinned, round faces and short. The Mapuches are more Japanese-looking fellows, taller with longer faces, very nice facial features, thin lips and lighter skins (some actually can pass as Japaneses; it has happened).
 
The Natives of Chile are mainly Mapuches, which was a culture less developed culture than the Peruvians. They were mainly farmers, that didn't build cities, and lives a simpler life. However, they were also the best warriors of Southern South America, that not only combat the Spaniards but stopped them.
 
Even the way of being of Mapuches is different from a Quechua or an Aymara. The Natives of the Andes are very modest and of nice manners; friendly and nice people who are easy to love. The Mapuches, on the other hand, are extremely proud people and always make clear they don't like westerners (they call us the robbers (huincas)).
 
These are Mapuches, the proud original peoples of Chile and Argentina.
 
 
 
Pinguin
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 21-Oct-2006 at 01:18
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 06:09
 
Originally posted by pinguin

There was a huge change in mentality in Spain when it entered the European Union.
 
No. There was an apparent big shift in Spanish culture when Franco died, but that was only because the dictatorship had been suppressing the expression of changes that were happening in Spain just like elsewhere in Europe. Without that change it would never have joined the EU in the first place.
 
There was no great difference between Spaniards and other Europeans in their outlook on life in the '60s: it was just that under the Falangists it had to be hidden. Only of course to burst forth when the regime collapsed.
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 08:14
Well, but when do Spaniards forgot to reproduce?
 
I mean, when the family become forgotten and all that matters was money and success? Why it did happened in Spain? a country that preached the family values throughout the world, but specially in the Americas, for centuries.
 
 
Pinguin
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 11:21
 
"I have notice, too, that many Central Americans and Mexicans that call themselves Mestizos, they are not. They are mainly Amerindians without much European admixture."
 
That is because the term Mestizo is used differently in Mexico.
 
By the definition of the Mexican government, only people able to speak an Amerindian language are considered to be Amerindians.  (There are a few exceptions where the native langauges are extinct).  Thus, about 15% of Mexicans are Amerindians by the definition of the Mexican government.  
 
Most other Mexicans (80%) are classified as Mestizo, even if they have mostly Amerindian blood (cant speak Amerindian language).   The remaing Mexican are classifed as "White" (5%).  Most of these are Spaniards, Germans, Jews and a few Russians and Lebanese.
 
Mexicans also use the term Huero (a) to describe very light complected hispanic Mestizos.   The term can be both a compliment or a mild insult depending on how it is used.  
 
P.S.  Wow, youare right when you mentioned that the indigenous people in Chile look Japanese  or Polynesian.   I have noticed that some Mexican Mayans also have a very Asian appereance.   


Edited by Cryptic - 21-Oct-2006 at 11:24
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 12:07
Originally posted by Cryptic

P.S.  Wow, youare right when you mentioned that the indigenous people in Chile look Japanese  or Polynesian.   I have noticed that some Mexican Mayans also have a very Asian appereance.   
 
Yes. They look Asian, which is not strange because pure Native Americans are related to Siberian-Mongolian populations, as genetics has shown. Today most Natives have some degree of admixture with Europeans in the Americas, and in the Caribbean and Brazil with Africans.
 
Here I got some pictures of absolutely pure Austral Natives (Kawashkars, Yaganes) at the time of contact (1900) and how they look:
 
 
Yagana women in a religious mission.
 
 
In here the lady at the center is European
 
 
 
And this kids are their modern descendents in Puerto Eden, Chile
 
 
 
Pinguin
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  Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 16:55
How about Canadian Mtis, is that the same as Mestizo?
 
Like her:
 


Edited by Jams - 21-Oct-2006 at 17:01
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 16:59
Originally posted by pinguin

I have notice, too, that many Central Americans and Mexicans that call themselves Mestizos, they are not. They are mainly Amerindians without much European admixture.
 

Race and ethnicity are before all culturally determined. So if people feel like mestizos and behave like mestizos they are mestizos. Genetical background is completely irrelevant.

One thing is for sure, Northeners and Southernes are different races but yeah many have interminlged with each other over the centuries


Are Slavs a different race aswell?

Of course they aren't. Even divisions between 'Caucasian', 'Negroid' and 'Mongoloid' are highly problematec. Considering people from different parts of Europe different races is downright ridiculous.

So I am certain "Americans" will have to change their racist attitudes against Latin America quite fast. They are outdated and really ridiculous by now.

I hope that will happen too, but I'm afraid it would. Historiy teaches us that whether it makes sense or not in the end people will always find a way to consider other people fundamentally different or even inferior.


Well, I lived in a developed country during five years, and I know the attitude against kids that many people has in the rich country. Not all the people is like that, but many preffer to have an Audi rather than a baby.

What's wrong with not having kids? This planet is already overpopulated,.


Edited by Mixcoatl - 21-Oct-2006 at 17:02
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 17:59
Originally posted by Jams

How about Canadian Mtis, is that the same as Mestizo?
 
Like her:
 
 
Yes. Meti is the french world for Mestizo, or a mixture between European and Native American. You should not confuse an aspect (white, brown, asian) with a genetic heritage. Almost half of all real mestizos (not pure Indians but mixtures with European) are impossible to distinguish from Southern European, and there are also many blonds.
 
This is Ximena Huilipan, a Mapuche Native that has white admixture (she is mestizo). She is absolutely gorgeous.
In here she looks white
 
 
And now Ximena looks Native
 
 
 
In the U.S. people use the disgusting expresion "half blood"  for the same mixture, while in Brazil the name is Cabloco or Mameluco.
 
In Canada, Meti culture is something unique, because is a syncretic heritage that is different of both Native American and the Western society.
In Latin America most mestizos are assimilated to the mainstream; but we can say the "mainstream" itself is a mestizo culture. In the U.S. there are also many mestizos that call themselves either "White" or "Native American" but is not common for people in the U.S. to recognize they are mixed people.
 
Finally, people should not confuse Mestizos (Euro-Indigenous) with Mulattos (Euro-Africans), Sambos (Afro-Indigenous) or tri-racials (Euro-Afro-Indigenous), nor with Europeans, Ethnic Indians or Blacks, because they are different ethnic groups, each one with its own roots and history.
 
Mestizos in the past where the most lucky of all mixed peoples of the Americas. In Canada, Brazil and Hispanic Americas, most mestizos were considerated Europeans and assimilated with easy. Other groups suffer more discrimination.
 
Pinguin
 
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  Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 00:00
Originally posted by pinguin

That would be a pitty for the people like ourselves, who descend in part of Spain. I bet that sudden injection of "northern" mentality of the '70s killed Spain more than the Vandals, the Moors, the Protestants, or any war or challenge of the past.


LOL Quite aside from the part about the northern mentality, what the poor Protestants ever do to Spain, except make jobs for the executioners who were in a sort of a job market bust with no Jews or Muslims left?

So I am certain "Americans" will have to change their racist attitudes against Latin America quite fast. They are outdated and really ridiculous by now.


Racist attitudes? There's the anti-immigration wave (which I am against) but that's more economic xenophobia than racism.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 02:50
 
Originally posted by pinguin

Well, but when do Spaniards forgot to reproduce?
 
They didn't forget. Believe me a lot of reproductive activity still goes on. But contraception isn't illegal the way it was under Franco when the Church still had a dominant political role.
 
The way society is organised now in Spain and the developed world, you no longer need so much to breed children to support you in middle and old age.
 
I mean, when the family become forgotten and all that matters was money and success?
 
A false dichotomy. What happened was that the growth in community spirit, through various degrees and kinds of socialism and its implementation in the welfare state made concentration on family self-help less necessary.
 
It wasn't that 'family values' were given up for 'money and success' but the narrow mentality they represent was supplanted by a more general and generous care for society at large.
 
Why it did happened in Spain? a country that preached the family values throughout the world, but specially in the Americas, for centuries.
 
Pinguin
 
Everyone else was also preaching 'family values' for centuries, in countries as dissimilar as the Europe ones, north and south, China and India. Preaching them doesn't mean actually practising them, as is apparent in the Republican party in the US.
 
Moreover 'family values' are not incompatible with hunger for money and success, and have gone hand-in-hand over the centuries. What they are incompatible with is social justice and fairness.
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 22-Oct-2006 at 02:52
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  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 02:53
Race and ethnicity are before all culturally determined. So if people feel like mestizos and behave like mestizos they are mestizos. Genetical background is completely irrelevant


Ever hear the term Wigga?? If you act Black an talk Black does that make you Black, no it doesnt.
What do you mean completely irrelevant Confused I think i understand what your saying, but i just think you get it man, you need to get out more bro.

People get laughed at for acting like something theyre not LOL theyre called wannabes...

Almost half of all real mestizos (not pure Indians but mixtures with European) are impossible to distinguish from Southern European, and there are also many blonds


Impossible to distinguish mmmm i dunno man Mexican Mestizos dont look European at all. You can see the European influence in them, but by saying they look like Spaniards is incorrect..








Edited by think - 22-Oct-2006 at 03:05
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  Quote Kynsi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 03:42
Originally posted by pinguin


The Natives of Chile are mainly Mapuches, which was a culture less developed culture than the Peruvians. They were mainly farmers, that didn't build cities, and lives a simpler life. However, they were also the best warriors of Southern South America, that not only combat the Spaniards but stopped them.


Why is it always a must to have somekind of a warrior past to mesure the worthyness of a nation?
Personally what I have heard from the veterans I just wonder how people survive those conditions.   
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forget the past then you are blind in both eyes -old russian saying
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 07:05
Low birth rates are a result of:
a) economics: it is simply too expensive to bring up children in Europe and N. America today.  People have to work more and there's no time for family.
b) the culture  of indivindualism has taken its toll on  family.  People in the West are too independent, brake early with their families and have to do everything themselves, including rearing of children. The image of the grandmother staying with the children when the parents were away (mine were off to the theatre, mind you, not work) is becoming a rare phenomenon in the West today. The upbringing of children is a GROUP thing in a sense, hard to achieve in the modern culture of the One.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 07:56
Originally posted by gcle2003

....
 
The way society is organised now in Spain and the developed world, you no longer need so much to breed children to support you in middle and old age.
 
 
 
Yes. The peopl who support you in middle and old age are immigrants now, not your own children.
 
Well, I know that since long time ago, because I lived in a developed country, that most Europe and North America is quite happy to become extinct. LOL
 
In Latin America people still fight to have children no matter is getting quite expensive. We still preffer our own kind rather than import foreigners to pay our welfare checks when we get old. However, the influence of the decadent mentality of the west in our people is a matter of concern by now.
 
Things happenes because a reason. Perhaps its time other people, who love life more, take the control of the situation.
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 08:02
Originally posted by think

..
Almost half of all real mestizos (not pure Indians but mixtures with European) are impossible to distinguish from Southern European, and there are also many blonds


Impossible to distinguish mmmm i dunno man Mexican Mestizos dont look European at all. You can see the European influence in them, but by saying they look like Spaniards is incorrect..
 
Average Mexicans are around 50% Native and 50% European. There are many groups that are 80% Native and 20% European in Mexico, particularly in the immigrants that go to the U.S.. People of Guatemala or Chiapas is 100% indigenous. Latin America as a whole is around 25% Indigenous but proportion vary between regions and countries.
 
But I bet you can't distinguish a Mestizo who is 20% Native/ 80% European from an actual European! Actually, most White Americans are around 8% Native Americans! Do you know that? And do you know most Norther Europeans are around 3% Asian!
 
Pinguin
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 08:06
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by gcle2003

....
 
The way society is organised now in Spain and the developed world, you no longer need so much to breed children to support you in middle and old age.
 
 
 
Yes. The peopl who support you in middle and old age are immigrants now, not your own children.
 
Well, I know that since long time ago, because I lived in a developed country, that most Europe and North America is quite happy to become extinct. LOL
 
In Latin America people still fight to have children no matter is getting quite expensive. We still preffer our own kind rather than import foreigners to pay our welfare checks when we get old. However, the influence of the decadent mentality of the west in our people is a matter of concern by now.
 
Things happenes because a reason. Perhaps its time other people, who love life more, take the control of the situation. In the past, when Romans become decadent they were replaced by the German barbarians and that produced a renewal of the society. Today peoples of the third world are getting ready to take mankind to the next step. 
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 08:18
Originally posted by Kynsi

Originally posted by pinguin


The Natives of Chile are mainly Mapuches, which was a culture less developed culture than the Peruvians. They were mainly farmers, that didn't build cities, and lives a simpler life. However, they were also the best warriors of Southern South America, that not only combat the Spaniards but stopped them.


Why is it always a must to have somekind of a warrior past to mesure the worthyness of a nation?
Personally what I have heard from the veterans I just wonder how people survive those conditions.   
 
Well, it is not we chose to have a warrior past, but Chile was one of those places that cost more blood to Spaniards than they expected.
 
We have many Native cultures we are proud of: Aymaraes with theirs wonderful three-state-logic language that fascinates computer scientists; Easter Islanders with theirs Moais, the Austral native cultures and the marvellous art style of the Diaguitas. However, the Mapuches were different, because they were a warrior society that actually stopped the Spaniards.
 
They were so brave and so smart in battle, Spaniards themselves recognized its worth. Mapuches were as cruel as the Spaniards, and took revenge and humilliated them. Spaniards used to cut the hands of Natives, well, mapuches eat theirs hearts alive. Spaniards convert  Natives women in lovers, Mapuches destroyed the town, killed the European males and took the European women with then. Spaniards have to drink its own poisson. Mapuches never gave up. It were us, the Chileans who defeated them and not the Spaniards.
 
The only country in the Americas were Spaniards expended more money that what they take out it was Chile, if you add the expenses to keep the stable the Mapuche frontier and the attacks of the British pirates.
 
How come we could not identify with the Mapuches when we have the same arrogant attitude? They are our role model. And when the creoles declared the Independence from Spain, it was the star of the Mapuche people the one they chose for our flag.
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 22-Oct-2006 at 08:22
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 11:04
Originally posted by think

Race and ethnicity are before all culturally determined. So if people feel like mestizos and behave like mestizos they are mestizos. Genetical background is completely irrelevant


Ever hear the term Wigga?? If you act Black an talk Black does that make you Black, no it doesnt.
What do you mean completely irrelevant Confused I think i understand what your saying, but i just think you get it man, you need to get out more bro.

People get laughed at for acting like something theyre not LOL theyre called wannabes...

You're right there. Let me refrase the way I view ethnicity: If you feel like a certain ethnicity, behave like that etnicity and are accepted by other people of that ethnicity, you have that ethnicity.

However, the influence of the decadent mentality of the west in our people is a matter of concern by now

I really don't see why not getting children is decadent.

On the other hand, I may even argue that having chilren is selfish. For example, it can perfectly be defended that it's very selfish to have children in order to have your old age guaranteed. Also the world is already overpopulated, more people will only put a bigger stress on the environment, space and natural resources. Just think of it this way: not having a child equals recycling everything you use during your entire life.
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  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 11:17
You're right there. Let me refrase the way I view ethnicity: If you feel like a certain ethnicity, behave like that etnicity and are accepted by other people of that ethnicity, you have that ethnicity


Yes that can work, but only in limited numbers. Once people get enough numbers, the point of fitting in is pointless.

I know people of other races who act "White" yet i dont see them as traitors to their original cultures or whatever. Infact ive never actually used the term acting White, but the only reason they think an perhaps  act the way they do is because they have grown up in a White world rather than a community dominated by people of their ethnicity an race..

Also the world is already overpopulated


Europes not..










Edited by think - 22-Oct-2006 at 11:35
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