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Connection of Vikings and Turks

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  Quote Turk Nomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Connection of Vikings and Turks
    Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 13:06
Were there an connections between Vikings and Turks?Ever battled,ever mixed,ever traded?

Edited by Turk Nomad - 13-Oct-2006 at 13:06
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 15:26
Uhhh yeah... Try doing some reading on the Vikings in Russia and their links with the Khazar Turks.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 18:47
as can be seen they did. look at the tading activity in the black sea at river ports.
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 08:02
The Viking were a proto-turkic tribe. Wink
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 08:03
Nice map btw the only problem is that there was so to speak to Turks in Anatolia in the mid-10th (or only mercenaries).
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 09:37
In Manzikert, Byzantines had the Varangian guards.Maybe they have battled there.

And no other times after this.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 09:47
Well if there was a Viking population in Kiev there may have been a connection because Turkic Khazars controlled the area.
 
 
 
The great capital city of modern Ukraine, Kiev, was founded by Khazars or Hungarians. Kiev is a Turkic place name (Ki = riverbank + ev = settlement). A community of Jewish Khazars lived in Kiev. Other towns of the Khazars, many of which also had important Jewish communities, included Kerch (Bospor), Feodosia, Tamatarkha (Tmutorokan), Chufut-Kale, Sudak, and Sarkel. The local governor of Samandar was Jewish, and it may be assumed that many of the governors of these other localities were also Jewish. A major brick fortress was built in 834 in Sarkel, along the Don River. It was a cooperative Byzantine-Khazar venture, and Petronas Kamateros, a Greek, served as chief engineer during the construction.
 
 
Did Vikings go into Central Asia?
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 09:56

I thought tah when the Vikings (or the Rus as they were called) were in Russia, they were the masters of the tradingroutes. Did the Turk Khazars rule the land around the tradingroutes? Or were they literally overlords over the Rus?


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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 09:57
Originally posted by Bulldog

Did Vikings go into Central Asia?



Along the Volga River to Caspian sea and the iranian coast.

Edited by Ikki - 14-Oct-2006 at 10:00
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 10:19
I've been thinking that though not exactly Viking anylonger, many Normands from Sicily have been in the first crusade (Tancrede of Lecce and Bohemond of Taranto) so most defently they have been fighting Turks.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 11:31
Aelfgifu the Khazar's were prolific traders, they were Jewish afterallLOL also the "Radhanites" operated from the Khazar state as a base.
 
 
Map of Eurasia showing the trade network of the Radhanites, c. 870 CE, as reported in the account of ibn Khordadbeh in the Book of Roads and Kingdoms.
 

Also Khazars paid no taxes to the central government. Revenue came from a 10% levy on goods transiting through the region, and from tribute paid by subject nations.
 

Judiciary

Muslim sources report that the Khazar supreme court consisted of two Jews, two Christians, two Muslims, and a "heathen" (whether this is a Turkic shaman or a priest of Slavic or Norse religion is unclear), and a citizen had the right to be judged according to the laws of his religion. Some have argued that this configuration is unlikely, as a Beit Din, or rabbinical court, requires three members. It is therefore possible that as practitioners of the state religion, the Jews had three judges on the Supreme Court rather than two, and that the Muslim sources were attempting to downplay their influence. A Muslim or Christian court can function with only one or two judges.

 
The Khazar state was one of the most powerfull, advanced and tolerant State of their age but also one of the least mentioned and known-about one.
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 11:45
Originally posted by Maharbbal

The Viking were a proto-turkic tribe. Wink
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
 
 
a very  usufull link as about the Vikings
 
 
 


Edited by akritas - 14-Oct-2006 at 11:47
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  Quote Turk Nomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 14:42
Thanks everybody.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 14:56
Amidst the prevalence of Turko historical geneology these days, I have been leery of getting involved in such topics as I find most of them filled with hogwash.

There does come a time when a topic starts out as fanciful naivity and leaves little to the imagination but comic relief. I thought this thread would be one of those topics. Since some of you have sincerely added your knowledge on this subject I might as well also. I still believe how one structures a thread is just as important as how one participates in it.

Anyway, here is a link on some Rus and Khazar history.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11261&PN=1

Towards the end of the linked thread I seemed to have eaten crow too. Oh, how teaching and learning can be such a painful process!   
    

Edited by Seko - 14-Oct-2006 at 14:57
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 16:16
The Khazars were defeated by the Vikings, so no, they were by no means their overlords. I don't remember the details though, this is a rather obscure chapter of Viking history.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 17:50
The Rus were vassals and then trading partners of the Khazars. Up until prince Sviatoslav's victory in 964 the Khazars had defeated the Rus and exacted tribute from the them.
http://www.unc.edu/~smyre/rus/Khazaria.html

Relations with Rus:           
Mid 7th - early 10th Centuries: To the southeast, between the Caucasus Mountains and the lower Volga, the Khazars controlled the steppe, and they permitted the Slavs to pass through their territory, extracting a tax of about one tenth of their goods. They also allowed a limited number of Slavic plowmen to cultivate parts of the steppe, although they extracted a tribute.           
The chronicle says that for a long time Khazar suzerainty was recognized by the East Slavic tribes -- those in the Don region, as well as those farther removed, such as the Viatichians on the Oka, the Radimichians on the Sozh, and even the Polianians. The Viatichians remained vassals of the Khazars until the second half of the 10th century.           
They may have maintained a garrison at Kiev.           
They were still a major international power in the early 10th century, and both the Rus and the Volga Bulghars probably accepted Khazar suzerainty.           
Once Rus began to grow, Khazaria became a problem for them.           
Until the Varangians came, the Slavs paid the Khazars regular tribute.           
After 912 (according to Al Mas'undi): About 500 Rus ships, each carrying 100 men arrived at the entrance of the straits of Kerch and asked the Khazar king permission to sail down his river to reach the Caspian Sea. The Khazar King, not having a seagoing war fleet of his own, agreed on condition that they give him half the booty. The Rus plundered Adarbayjan, Gil, and Daylam.           
964: In alliance with the Oghuz, Sviatoslav sacked the Khazar capital, Itil (as well as Semender and Sarkel), and conquered and destroyed the Khazar empire -- the Khazar Khanate ceased to exist. The defeat of the Khazars gave Eastern tribes, such as the Pechenegs, more power.           
Slavs coming from the state of Ancient Rus began to penetrate into that area with increasing vigour from the 10th century onwards, following Kiev Prince Sviatoslav's victorious campaigns against the Khazars.           
Vladimir led an expedition against the Khazars. In light of the formation of the mutarakan Principality and the situation in the Crimea, a war with the remnants of the Khazars was quite possible. The PVL makes no mention of Vladimir campaigning against Khazaria.           
Saxo's Handvanus, King of Hellespont, was decoded to be the fugitive Khazar kagan who found refuge in the Volga trading factory of the Rus.           
The ensuing marriages (attested to in Saxo's work) between the Khazar elite and the Rus were of great import for further development because they produced the dynasty of the kagans of Rus, which later conquered Kiev and was transformed into the Slavic Kievan Rus state.           
The Khazar army and the kagan's personal retinue were largely made up of Slavs.           
Kievan expansion, which involved subordination of neighboring tribes to tributary status, was inherently a challenge to the Khazars, to whom many of those tribes had previously owed allegiance.



Wars:           
Two Arab historians, al-Baladhuri (9th century) and al-Tabari (10th century), who supplement each other's information, describe an Arab campaign against the Khazars in the first half of the 8th century.           
The Khazar administration probably hired Onogurs who were experts at the military art. They were apparently stationed at a garrison in Berestovo.           
Lebedias (in whose honor the territory was named Lebedia) led the Hungarians who controlled the Khazarian "White Forts" of the Siverian Donets basin.           
The Khazarian standing army (al'arsiya) responsible for the western and northern frontiers was composed of eastern Iranian Muslims, and thus one might say that this element played a decisive role in promoting the frontier settlement to the rank of a trading town.           
10th Century: The Khazars prevented the Turkic horde called the Oghuz from crossing the Volga and moving into the Black Sea steppes. They also blocked access to the east for the Rus pirates who plundered the Caspian shores in their boats. By maintaining peace, the Khazar state server its own economic interests.           
By the 10th Century: The Khazars had already become weak and were unable to serve as a bulwark against marauding campaigns from both sides.           
End of the 9th Century: The Khazars, unable to stop the Pechenegs, allowed the horde through into Europe (no later than the 870s or 880s); subsequently their eastern policy consisted of containing the Oghuz.           
The collapse of Khazar power in the Pontic steppes undermined Khazar authority elsewhere. By the early 10th century, the Oghuz tribes of the Kazakh steppes, the Bashkir tribes to the north of the Khazars, and even some of the Caucasian peoples of Khazaria, such as the newly Christianized Alans, were showing signs of impatience with Khazar suzerainty.
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  Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 00:15
Some Vikings did touch down in the Middle East. As I recall, several visited Baghdad and settled down. Others moved on to Afghanistan and depleted the silver mines there.
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 06:10

There is evidence that Swedish predecessors were from northwest Turkey.

 

The ruins of Troy were discovered in 1870.

http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31&id_site=849

 

Evidence shows the city of Troy endured years of war, specifically with Greek and Egyptian armies.  Troy was eventually laid in ruins after years of fighting.  The city was completely devastated, which is verified by the fact that it was vacant to about 700 BC.

 

Thousands of Trojans left Troy, as mentioned in Greek, Hittite, Etruscan, Merovingian, Roman, and Scandinavian scrolls & writings.  The writings corroborate that Trojans emigrated after the fallings of the city, some going up the Danube river and crossing into Italy (establishing the Etruscan culture?), and others went north across the Black Sea into the Mare Moetis or "shallow sea" where the Don River ends (Caucasus region in southern Russia), establishing a kingdom called Sicambria about 1150 BC (the Romans called them Sicambrians).  The locals (nomadic Scythians) named these Trojan conquerors the "Iron people", or the Aes in their language.  The Aes soon built their famous fortified city Aesgard or Asgard, described as "Troy in the north."  The area became known as Asaland (Land of the Aesir) or Asaheim (Home of the Aesir).  Some historians suggest that Odin, who was later worshipped as a god by pagan Vikings, was actually a Thracian/Aesir leader who reigned in the Sicambrian kingdom and lived in the city of Asgard in the first century BC.  He appointed chieftains after the pattern of Troy, establishing rulers to administer the laws of the land, and he drew up a code of law like that in Troy and to which the Trojans had been accustomed.

 

Historians refer to the Aesir people as the Thraco-Cimmerians, since the Trojans were of Thracian ancestry (search 'Thracian origins').  The Cimmerians were an ancient people who lived among Thracians, and were eventually absorbed into Thracian culture.  Greek historian Herodotus of Halicarnassus noted about 440 BC that the Thracians were the second most numerous people in the world, outnumbered only by the (East) Indians, and that the Thracian homeland was huge.  The Thracian homelands included the Ukrainian steppes and much of the Caucasus region.  According to Flavius Josephus, Jewish & Roman historian in the 1st century AD, the descendants of Noah's grandson Tiras were called Tirasians.  They were known to the Romans as Thirasians.  The Greeks called them Thracians and later Trajans, the original people of the city of Troas (Troy), whom they feared as marauding pirates.  History attests that they were indeed a most savage race, given over to a perpetual state of "tipsy excess", as one historian put it.  They are also described as a "ruddy and blue-eyed people".  World Book Encyclopedia states they were "...savage Indo-Europeans, who liked warfare and looting."  Russian historian Nicholas L. Chirovsky describes the arrival of the Thracians, and how they soon dominated the lands along the eastern shores of the river Don.  These people were called Aes locally, according to Chirovsky, and later the Aesir (plural).

 

Evidence that the Aesir (Iron people) were Trojan refugees can be confirmed from local and later Roman historical sources, including the fact that the inner part of the Black Sea was renamed from the Mare Maeotis to the "Iron Sea" or "Sea of Aesov", in the local tongue.  The name remains today as the Sea of Azov, an inland sea in southern European Russia, connected with the Black Sea.  The Aesir were known for their fighting with iron weapons.  They were feared for their warships, as well as their ferocity in battle, and thus quickly dominated the northern trades, using the Don River as their main route for trading.

 

The Aesir people dominated the area around the Sea of Azov for nearly 1000 years, though the surrounding areas to the north and east were known as the lands of the Scythians.  The Aesir fought with the Scythians for regional dominance, but eventually made peace.  They established trade with the Scythians, and even strong cultural ties, becoming united in religion and law.  The Aesir began trading far to the north as well.

 

The land far north was first described about 330 BC by the Greek explorer Pytheas of Massalia.  He called the region "Thule", which was described as the outermost of all countries, probably part of the Norwegian coast, where the summer nights were very short.  Pytheas translated Thule as "the place where the Sun goes to rest", which comes from the Germanic root word "Dhul-" meaning "to stop in a place, to take a rest."  Pytheas described the people as barbarians (Germanic/Teutonic tribes) having an agricultural lifestyle, using barns and threshing their grains.  These people had already established trade with the Aesir who later began migrating north around 90 BC from the Caucasus region, during the time of Roman expansion in Europe.  The Germanic/Teutonic tribes first made a name for themselves about 100 BC after aggressively fighting against the Romans.  Not much is known about the Germanic tribes prior to this.  When writing the "Gallic Wars", Julius Caesar described encounters with those Germanic peoples and distinguishes them from the Celts.  During this time period, many Germanic tribes were migrating out of Scandinavia to Germany and the Baltic region, placing continuous stress on Roman defenses.

 

Migrating groups were normally smaller groups of different people or tribes, often following a strong leader.  The "nationality" of the leaders would usually appear as the nationality of the migrating group, until later when the group was separated again.  The migrations could take place over several decades, and often when the Germanic tribes were mentioned in the written sources, the Romans had only met raiding groups occupying warriors or mercenaries operating far away from their people.


Around the
same time, about 90 BC, the Aesir began their exodus from the Black Sea/Caucasus region.  Their arrival at the Baltic Sea in Scandinavia has been supported by several scholars and modern archaeological evidence.  As told by Snorri Sturluson (a 13th century Nordic historiographer) and confirmed by other data, the Aesir felt compelled to leave their land to escape Roman invasions by Pompeius, and local tribal wars.  Known as Thracian warrior tribes, the aggressive Indo-European nomadic Aesir came north, moving across Europe, bringing all their weapons and belongings in their boats on the rivers of Europe, in successive stages.  Historians note that Odin, who was a very popular Thracian ruler, led a migration about 70 BC with thousands of followers from the Black Sea region to Scandinavia.  It is also told that another Thracian tribe came along with them, a people called the Vanir or Vaner.  Odin's first established settlement became known as Odense (Odin's Sanctuary or Odin's Shrine), inspiring religious pilgrimages to the city through the Middle Ages.  These tribes first settled in present-day Denmark, and then created a power-center in what is now southern Sweden.  About 800 years later during the Viking era, Odin, the Aesir and Vanir had become gods, and Asgard/Troy was the home of those gods? the foundation for Viking religion.  The Aesir warrior gods, and the religious deities of Odin and Thor, were an integral part of the warlike nature of the Vikings, even leading them back down the waterways of Europe to their tribal origins along the Black Sea and Asia Minor.

 
Aesir became the Old Norse word for the divine (also, the Old Teutonic word "Ase" was a common word for "god"), and "Asmegir" was the Icelandic term for "god maker? a human soul on its way to becoming divine in the course of evolution.  The Vanir represented fertility and peace gods.  Not unlike Greeks and Romans, the Scandinavians also deified their ancestors.  The Egyptians adopted the practice of deifying their kings, just as the Babylonians had deified Nimrod.  The
same practice of ancestor worship was passed on to the Greeks and Romans and to the entire pagan world, until it was subdued by Christianity.


Snorri Sturluson wrote the Prose Edda (Norse history and myths) about 1223 AD, where he made an interesting comparison with the Viking Aesir gods to the people in
Asia Minor (Caucasus region), particular to the Trojan royal family (considered mythological by most historians today, regrettably).  The Prose Edda is one of the first attempts to devise a rational explanation for mythological and legendary events of the Scandinavians.  Unfortunately, many historians acknowledge only what academia accepts as history, often ignoring material that might be relevant.  For example, Snorri wrote that the Aesir had come from Asia Minor, and he compared the Ragnarok (Norse version of the first doom of the gods and men) with the fall of Troy.  Sturluson noted that Asgard, home of the gods, was also called Troy.  Although Snorri was a Christian, he treated the ancient religion with great respect.  Snorri was writing at the time when all of Scandinavia (including Iceland) had converted to Christianity by 11th century, and he was well aware of classical Greek and Roman mythology.  Stories of Troy had been known from antiquity in many cultures.  The Trojan War was the greatest conflict in Greek mythology, a war that was to influence people in literature and arts for centuries.  Snorri mentioned God and the Creation, Adam and Eve, as well as Noah and the flood.  He also compared a few of the Norse gods to the heroes at the Trojan War.

 

The Aesir/Asir were divided into several groups that in successive stages emigrated to their new Scandinavian homeland.  Entering the Baltic Sea, they sailed north to the Scandinavian shores, only to meet stubborn Germanic tribes, who had been fighting the Romans.  The prominent Germanic tribes in the region were the Gutar, also known as the Guta, Gutans, Gotarne or Goths by Romans.  These Germanic tribes were already known to the Aesir, as trade in the Baltic areas was well established prior to 100 BC.  The immigrating Aesir had many clans and tribes, and one prominent tribe that traveled along with them were the Vanir (the Vanir later became known as the Danir/Daner, and subsequently the Danes, who settled in what is now present-day Denmark).  However, the most prominent clan to travel with the Asir were the Eril warriors or the "Erilar", meaning "wild warriors".  The Asir sent Erilar north as seafaring warriors to secure land and establish trade (these warriors were called "Earls" in later Scandinavian society).  The clans of Erilar (also called Jarlar, Eruls or Heruls by Romans, and Eruloi or Elouroi by Greek historian Dexippos) enabled the Asir clans (later called Svi, Sviar, Svea, Svear or Svioner by Romans) to establish settlements throughout the region, but not without continuous battles with the Goths and other migrating Germanic tribes.  The Eruls/Heruls eventually made peace with the Goths who ruled the region.  The tribes of Svear, Vanir, and Heruls soon formed their own clans and dominated the Baltic/Scandinavian region.  The Gothic historian Jordanes (or Jordanis), who was a notary of Gothic kings, told in about 551 AD that the Daner were from the same stock as the Svear, both taller and fairer than any other peoples of the North.  He called the Svear, "Sve'han".

 

The Svear population flourished, and with the Heruls and Goths, formed a powerful military alliance of well-known seafarers.  The Svear and Heruls then gradually returned to their ancestral land, beginning in the 2nd century AD, building a fleet of 500 sailing ships.  Sometimes sailing with the Goths, they terrorized all of the lands and peoples of the Black Sea and parts of the Mediterranean, even the Romans.  They were the pre-Vikings.  In the 3rd century (267 AD) the Heruls controlled all of the Roman-occupied Black Sea and parts of the eastern Mediterranean.  There are several accounts about how the Herul warriors returned to ravage the shores of the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, alone and together with the Goths.  The Romans noted that "the Heruls, a Scandinavian people, together with the Goths, were, from the 3rd century AD, ravaging the Black Sea, Asia Minor and the Mediterranean."  While the Romans called the Scandinavian region "Thule" (after Pytheas), the Greeks called it "Scandia" (from ancient times), and others called the area "Scandza".  The term Scandia comes from the descendants of Ashkenaz (grandson of Noah in the Bible).  Known as the Askaeni, they were the first peoples to migrate to northern Europe, naming the land Ascania after themselves.  Latin writers and Greeks called the land Scandza or Scandia (now Scandinavia).  Germanic tribes, such as the Teutons and Goths, are considered the descended tribes of the Askaeni and their first settlements.

 

The first time Thule (Scandinavia) was mentioned in Roman written documents was in the 1st century (79 AD) by the Roman citizen Plinius senior.  He wrote about an island peninsula in the north populated by "Sviar", "Sveonerna" or "Svearnas" people, also called "Sveons", "Svianar", "Svetidi" or "Suetidi" by others.  Later in 98 AD the learned civil servant Cornelius Tacitus wrote about northern Europe.  Tacitus writes in the Latin book Germania about tribes of "Sviones" or "Suiones" (Latin Sviones was derived from Sviar) in Scandinavia, who live off the ocean, sailing in large fleets of boats with a prow at either end, no sail, using paddles, and strong, loyal, well-armed men with spikes in their helmets.  They drove both the Goths and Lapps out of Scandinavia.  Archaeological finds have provided a vivid record of the evolution of their longships from about the 4th century BC.  Tacitus further wrote, "And thereafter, out in the ocean comes Sviones (also "Svionernas" or "Svioner") people, which are mighty not only in manpower and weaponry but also by its fleets".  He also mentions that "the land of Svionerna is at the end of the world."  In the 2nd century (about 120 AD) the first map was created where Scandinavia (Baltic region) could be viewed.  Greek-Egyptian astronomer and geographer Ptolemaios (Ptolemy of Alexandria) created the map, and at the same time wrote a geography where he identified several different people groups, including the "Gotarne", "Heruls", "Sviar" and "Finnar" who lived on peninsula islands called "Scandiai".  During the Roman Iron Age (1-400 AD), evidences are convincing for a large Baltic seafaring culture in what is now Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Estonia.

 

Many clans of Aesir and Germanic peoples were united by settlements.  For example, the Aesir clan Suevi (also Suebi) settled among Germanic peoples in a region called Swabia (named after themselves), which is now southwest Germany.  Those clans became known as the Alemanni, first mentioned about 213 AD after attacking the Romans.  Called Suevic tribes by historians, they formed an alliance for mutual protection against other Germanic tribes and the Romans, and retained their tribal designation until the late Middle Ages.

 
By the 5th century, the Aesir Heruls were in great demand as soldiers in the Roman Imperial Guards.  The Romans were impressed with the war-like Heruls, and recruited them to fight in the Roman Army.  Herul factions were making settlements throughout
Europe, fighting and battling everywhere they went.  In the late 5th century, the Heruls formed a state in upper Hungary under the Roman ruler Csar Anastasius (491-518 AD).  Later they attacked the Lombards, but were beaten, according to Greek-Roman author Prokopios (born at the end of the 5th century).  He was a lawyer in Constantinople and from the year 527 private secretary to the Byzantine military commander Belisarius on his campaigns against the Ostrogoths.  Prokopios says by the early 6th century (about 505), the remaining Heruls in upper Hungary were forced to leave.  Some of them crossed the Danube into Roman territory, where Anastasius allowed them to settle.  Historians mention that remaining clans of Heruls sailed northwards, back to Thule to reunite with their Svear brethren.  Prokopios noted that there were 13 populous tribes in Thule (the Scandinavian peninsula), each with its own king.  He said, "A populous tribe among them was the Goths, next to where the returning Heruls settled".  Prokopios also mentions that "the Heruls sent some of their most distinguished men to the island Thule in order to find and if possible bring back a man of royal blood.  When they came to the island they found many of royal blood."

 
Evidence of their existence during this time period can be found on the frequent appearance of runic inscriptions with the name Erilar "the Herul".  While it is thought that the ancient Scandinavian alphabet, called futhork or runes, is of Latin origin, the evidence suggests that it was used far to the northeast of
Rome where Roman influence did not reach.  The runes are a corruption of an old Greek alphabet, used by Trojans along the northwest coast of the Black Sea.  From examples of Etruscan, Greek, and early Roman scripts, it is not difficult to see that earlier runes resemble archaic Greek and Etruscan rather than Latin.  The Heruls used runes in the same way their ancestors did, which have been discovered throughout Europe and Scandinavia.  Scandinavian sagas tell us that the Scandinavian languages began when men from central Asia settled in the north.  Sometime after 1300 AD the runes were adjusted to the Roman alphabet.

 

The Heruls brought with them a few Roman customs, one being the Julian calendar, which is known to have been introduced to Scandinavia at this time, the early 6th century AD.  When the Heruls returned to join again with the Svear in Scandinavia, the Svear state with its powerful kings suddenly emerges.  Their ancestors were the warring bands of Aesir (sometimes called Eastmen) who became known as the Svear or Suines.  They became the dominant power and waged war with the Goths, winning rule over them.  By the middle of the 6th century, the first all-Swedish kings emerged.  This royal dynasty became immensely powerful and dominated not only Sweden but also neighboring countries.  Gothic historian Jordanes writes of the Suines or Suehans (Sve'han) of Scandinavia, with fine horses, rich apparel and trading in furs around 650 AD.  The Swedish nation has its roots in these different kingdoms, created when the king of the Svenonians (Svears) assumed kingship over the Goths.  The word Sweden comes from the Svenonians, as Sverige or Svearike means "the realm of the Svenonians".  The English form of the name is probably derived from an old Germanic form, Svetheod, meaning the Swedish people.


By the 7th century, the Svear and Goth populations dominated the areas of what is now
Sweden, Denmark and Norway.  However, the term Norway came later.  Latin text from around 840 AD called the area Noruagia, and Old English text from around 880 AD used Norweg.  The oldest Nordic spelling was Nuruiak, written in runes on a Danish stone from around 980 AD.  The Old Norse (Old Scandinavian) spelling became Nordvegr, meaning "the country in the north" or "the way to the north", and the people were called Nordes.  All of the names were given by people south of Norway to signify a place far to the north.  The people of Norway now call themselves Nynorsk, a name decided by linguists in the 1880s.  The name Denmark originated from the people called the Vanir (or Vaner) who settled the region with the Aesir in the first century BC.  The Vanir were later called Danir (or Daner), and eventually Danes.  By the 9th century AD, the name Danmark (Dan-mrk, "border district of the Danes") was used for the first time.  In Old Norse, mrk meant a "forest," and forests commonly formed the boundaries of tribes.  In Modern Danish, mark means a "field," "plain", or "open country".  Hence, Denmark once meant literally "forest of the Danes."  During this period, their language Dnsk tunga (Danish tongue) was spoken throughout northern Europe, and would later be called Old Norse or Old Scandinavian during the Viking period.  Old Norse was spoken by the people in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, and parts of Germany.


The ancestor of all modern Scandinavian languages, beginning with the Germanic form, was developed from the languages of the Aesir (Thracian tribes) and Goths (Germanic tribes).  When the Aesir integrated with the people of the lands, their families became so numerous in
Scandinavia and Germany that their language became the language of all the people in that region.  The linguistic and archaeological data seem to indicate that the final linguistic stage of the Germanic languages took place in an area which has been located approximately in southern Sweden, southern Norway, Denmark and the lower Elbe river which empties into the North Sea on the northwest coast of Germany.  The Germanic tribes began arriving in the area about 1000 BC.  Later, the Aesir brought their language to the north of the world, to Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Germany.  The future rulers of Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland trace their names and genealogies back to the Aesir.  The most ancient inscriptions in Old Norse/Scandinavian are from the 3rd and 5th century centuries AD, with other inscriptions dating up to the 12th century.  They were short signs written in the futhork runic alphabet, which had 24 letters (though many variations were used throughout the region).  By the end of the Viking era (11th century AD), the Old Norse language dialect varieties grew stronger until two separate languages appeared, Western Scandinavian, the ancestor of Norwegian and Icelandic, and Eastern Scandinavian, the ancestor of Swedish and Danish.  Many Old Norse words were borrowed by English, and even the Russian language, due to expansion by Vikings.

 
The next Svear conquests began in the early 8th century.  By 739 AD the Svear and Goths dominated the Russian waterways, and together they were called Varyagans or Varangians, according to written records of the Slavs near the
Sea of Azov.  Like their ancestors, the Svear lived in large communities where their chiefs would send out maritime warriors to trade and plunder.  Those fierce warriors were called the Vaeringar, which meant literally "men who offer their service to another master".  We later know them by their popularized name, the Vikings.  Thus began the era known as the Viking Age, 750-1066 AD.  They often navigated the Elbe river, one of the major waterways of central Europe.  Their ships were the best in all of Europe? sleek, durable and could travel by both sail and oars.  To the east of the Elbe they were known as Varangians, and west of the Elbe they were called Vikings.  Many called them Norse or Northmen? those from the Scandinavian countries, which consisted of Sweden, Norway and Denmark.  Once again the Svear began returning to the places of their Thracian ancestors in the Caucasus region, sailing rivers which stretched deep into Russia, establishing trading stations and principalities.  Other Vikings raided the British Isles and western Europe, as noted in this Old English prayer:  "A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine" (From the fury of the Northmen deliver us, Oh Lord).

  

Vikings never called themselves Vikings.  Unlike Varangian, the term Viking probably originated from Frankish chroniclers who first called them "Vikverjar" (travelers by sea), Nordic invaders who attacked the city of Nantes (in present-day France) in 843 AD.  The word "vik" meant bay or fjord in Old Norse, and later meant "one who came out from or frequented inlets to the sea".  Viking and Varangian eventually became synonymous, meaning "someone who travels or is passing through," whether merchant, mercenary, or marauder.  Their activities consisted of trading, plundering and making temporary settlements (see Viking Routes).  Finnish peoples referred to the Swedish voyagers as Ruotsi, Rotsi or Rus in contrast with Slavic peoples, which was derived from the name of the Swedish maritime district in Uppland, called "Roslagen", and its inhabitants, known as "Rodskarlar".  Rodskarlar or Rothskarlar meant "rowers" or "seamen".  Those Swedish conquerors settled in eastern Europe, adopted the names of local tribes, integrated with the Slavs, and eventually the word "Rusi", "Rhos" or "Rus" came to refer to the inhabitants.  The Arab writer Ibn Dustah wrote that Swedish Vikings were brave and valiant, utterly plundering and vanquishing all people they came against.  Later, the Arabic diplomat Ibn Fadlan, while visiting Bulgar (Bulgaria) during the summer of 922 AD, saw the Swedish Vikings (Rus) arrive, and he wrote:  "Never before have I seen people of more perfect physique; they were tall like palm trees, blonde, with a few of them red.  They do not wear any jackets or kaftaner (robes), the men instead wear dress which covers one side of the body but leaves one hand free.  Every one of them brings with him an ax, a sword and a knife."  Their descriptions mirror the physique, dress and armor of Trojan warriors? the Viking ancestors.  The various ancestors of the Vikings included the Thracian tribes (Asir) and the Germanic tribes (Goths).

 

The Vikings included many tribes and kingdoms from around the Baltic Sea, including the Svear from Sweden, the Norde from Norway, the Danes from Denmark, the Jutes from Juteland (now part of Denmark), the Goths from Gotland (now part of Sweden), the Alands from land (now part of Finland), the Finns from Finland, and others.  The Svear Vikings traveled primarily east to the Mediterranean (what is now Russia and Turkey), where they had been returning regularly since leaving the region 900 years earlier.  Subsequent Viking raids and expeditions covered areas deep into Russia, the Middle East, Europe and America, ending in the 11th century (about 1066 AD) after the introduction of Christianity around the year 1000 AD.  The kingships and provinces of Sweden then combined to form one country.  The dominant king during the Viking age was from the Erik family of Uppsala.  One of the first Swedish monarchs in recorded history was Olof Skotkonung, a descendant of the Erik family.  Olof and his descendants ruled Sweden from about 995 to 1060.  Sweden's first archbishop arrived in the 12th century (1164).
 


Edited by Hellios - 15-Oct-2006 at 06:11
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 01:18
They bot should be having same origins, which would make them related cousins.  
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 08:39
[QUOTE=Hellios]

There is evidence that Swedish predecessors were from northwest Turkey (you mean Turkey like Rep of Turkey, the word invented aroud 1500 AD?).



YES!!! Ultimately the truth always prevails: vikings WERE a proto-turkic tribe as proved by their very name coming from old Inca language (another proto-turkic tribe) vik = big boobs; ing = blondes.

 

The ruins of Troy were discovered in 1870.

http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31&id_site=849

 

Evidence shows the city of Troy endured years of war (somebody somewhere has written about it. I can't remember. Hum, yes, he was blind, must have been David Blunkett), specifically with Greek and Egyptian (LOL) armies.  Troy was eventually laid in ruins after years of fighting.  The city was completely devastated, which is verified by the fact that it was vacant to about 700 BC.

 

Thousands of Trojans left Troy, as mentioned in Greek, Hittite, Etruscan (man, respect if you can read etruscan because you're the only one in the world), Merovingian (well it was some 1200 years after but lets pretend they had a good memory), Roman, and Scandinavian (yes sure, and we can also trace back the origin of the real kentucky fried chicken back to the Norsemen) scrolls & writings.  The writings corroborate that Trojans emigrated after the fallings of the city, some going up the Danube river and crossing into Italy (establishing the Etruscan culture?), and others went north across the Black Sea into the Mare Moetis or "shallow sea" where the Don River ends (Caucasus region in southern Russia), establishing a kingdom called Sicambria about 1150 BC (the Romans called them Sicambrians).  The locals (nomadic Scythians) named these Trojan conquerors the "Iron people", or the Aes in their language.  The Aes soon built their famous fortified city Aesgard or Asgard, described as "Troy in the north."  The area became known as Asaland (Land of the Aesir) or Asaheim (Home of the Aesir).  Some historians suggest that Odin, who was later worshipped as a god by pagan Vikings, was actually a Thracian/Aesir leader who reigned in the Sicambrian kingdom and lived in the city of Asgard in the first century BC.  He appointed chieftains after the pattern of Troy, establishing rulers to administer the laws of the land, and he drew up a code of law like that in Troy and to which the Trojans had been accustomed. (who said bedtime story? It as nothing to do with fairytale, it is a narrative supported by strong archeological descoveries ... not yet discovered)

 

Historians refer to the Aesir people as the Thraco-Cimmerians, since the Trojans were of Thracian ancestry (search 'Thracian origins').  The Cimmerians were an ancient people who lived among Thracians, and were eventually absorbed into Thracian culture.  Greek historian Herodotus of Halicarnassus (you mean the one who've said that some people could transform themselves into fish?) noted about 440 BC that the Thracians were the second most numerous people in the world, outnumbered only by the (East) Indians, and that the Thracian homeland was huge.  The Thracian homelands included the Ukrainian steppes and much of the Caucasus region.  According to Flavius Josephus, Jewish & Roman historian in the 1st century AD, the descendants of Noah's grandson Tiras were called Tirasians.  They were known to the Romans as Thirasians.  The Greeks called them Thracians and later Trajans, the original people of the city of Troas (Troy), whom they feared as marauding pirates (I do see a T but as well in Thailand, Tuscon, Texas, Tottenham, Toy Story, Terribly pedandic and inefficient demonstration, Ts are everywhere my friend).  History attests that they were indeed a most savage race, given over to a perpetual state of "tipsy excess", as one historian put it.  They are also described as a "ruddy and blue-eyed people".  World Book Encyclopedia states they were "...savage Indo-Europeans, who liked warfare and looting."  Russian historian Nicholas L. Chirovsky describes the arrival of the Thracians, and how they soon dominated the lands along the eastern shores of the river Don.  These people were called Aes locally, according to Chirovsky, and later the Aesir (plural).

 

Evidence that the Aesir (Iron people) were Trojan refugees can be confirmed from local and later Roman historical sources (only some 5000 km from Ukraine), including the fact that the inner part of the Black Sea was renamed from the Mare Maeotis to the "Iron Sea" or "Sea of Aesov", in the local tongue.  The name remains today as the Sea of Azov, an inland sea in southern European Russia, connected with the Black Sea.  The Aesir were known for their fighting with iron weapons.  They were feared for their warships, as well as their ferocity in battle, and thus quickly dominated the northern trades, using the Don River as their main route for trading.

 

The Aesir people dominated the area around the Sea of Azov for nearly 1000 years, though the surrounding areas to the north and east were known as the lands of the Scythians.  The Aesir fought with the Scythians for regional dominance, but eventually made peace.  They established trade with the Scythians, and even strong cultural ties, becoming united in religion and law.  The Aesir began trading far to the north as well.

 

The land far north was first described about 330 BC by the Greek explorer Pytheas of Massalia.  He called the region "Thule", which was described as the outermost of all countries, probably part of the Norwegian coast, where the summer nights were very short (and the fish was good and the girls easy).  Pytheas translated Thule as "the place where the Sun goes to rest", which comes from the Germanic root word "Dhul-" meaning "to stop in a place, to take a rest." (gave the English dumb, bull and so on) Pytheas described the people as barbarians (Germanic/Teutonic tribes) having an agricultural lifestyle, using barns and threshing their grains.  These people had already established trade with the Aesir who later began migrating north around 90 BC from the Caucasus region, during the time of Roman expansion in Europe.  The Germanic/Teutonic tribes first made a name for themselves about 100 BC after aggressively fighting against the Romans.  Not much is known about the Germanic tribes prior to this.  When writing the "Gallic Wars", Julius Caesar described encounters with those Germanic peoples and distinguishes them from the Celts.  During this time period, many Germanic tribes were migrating out of Scandinavia to Germany and the Baltic region, placing continuous stress on Roman defenses.

 

Migrating groups were normally smaller groups of different people or tribes, often following a strong leader.  The "nationality" of the leaders would usually appear as the nationality of the migrating group, until later when the group was separated again.  The migrations could take place over several decades, and often when the Germanic tribes were mentioned in the written sources, the Romans had only met raiding groups occupying warriors or mercenaries operating far away from their people.


Around the
same time, about 90 BC, the Aesir began their exodus from the Black Sea/Caucasus region.  Their arrival at the Baltic Sea in Scandinavia has been supported by several scholars and modern archaeological evidence.  As told by Snorri Sturluson (a 13th century Nordic historiographer) and confirmed by other data, the Aesir felt compelled to leave their land to escape Roman invasions by Pompeius, and local tribal wars.  Known as Thracian warrior tribes, the aggressive Indo-European nomadic Aesir came north, moving across Europe, bringing all their weapons and belongings in their boats on the rivers of Europe, in successive stages.  Historians note that Odin, who was a very popular Thracian ruler, led a migration about 70 BC with thousands of followers from the Black Sea region to Scandinavia (I like the "historian" showing up once in a while, NB a few paragraphs up he said Odian MAY have exist, now it is had evidence).  It is also told that another Thracian tribe came along with them, a people called the Vanir or Vaner.  Odin's first established settlement became known as Odense (Odin's Sanctuary or Odin's Shrine), inspiring religious pilgrimages to the city through the Middle Ages.  These tribes first settled in present-day Denmark, and then created a power-center in what is now southern Sweden.  About 800 years later during the Viking era, Odin, the Aesir and Vanir had become gods, and Asgard/Troy was the home of those gods? the foundation for Viking religion.  The Aesir warrior gods, and the religious deities of Odin and Thor, were an integral part of the warlike nature of the Vikings, even leading them back down the waterways of Europe to their tribal origins along the Black Sea and Asia Minor. (reasons triumph ultimately!)

 
Aesir became the Old Norse word for the divine (also, the Old Teutonic word "Ase" was a common word for "god"), and "Asmegir" was the Icelandic term for "god maker? a human soul on its way to becoming divine in the course of evolution.  The Vanir represented fertility and peace gods.  Not unlike Greeks and Romans, the Scandinavians also deified their ancestors.  The Egyptians adopted the practice of deifying their kings, just as the Babylonians had deified Nimrod.  The
same practice of ancestor worship was passed on to the Greeks and Romans and to the entire pagan world, until it was subdued by Christianity. (how convinient isn't it?)


SORRY I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY LONGER. THIS POST IS SO STUPID THAT A MEDIVAL DRUNK MONK WOULD HAVE BLUCHED WHEN WRITTING IT TO PLEASE HIS MASTER. IT IS A LOT OF NONSENSE AND YOU ARE MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF.



Snorri Sturluson wrote the Prose Edda (Norse history and myths) about 1223 AD, where he made an interesting comparison with the Viking Aesir gods to the people in Asia Minor (Caucasus region(which btw is not the same, but never mind)), particular to the Trojan royal family (considered mythological by most historians today, regrettably).  The Prose Edda is one of the first attempts to devise a rational explanation for mythological and legendary events of the Scandinavians (read Plato and you'll know what to think about that).  Unfortunately, many historians acknowledge only what academia accepts as history, often ignoring material that might be relevant (me against the rest of the world... paranoia).  For example, Snorri wrote that the Aesir had come from Asia Minor, and he compared the Ragnarok (Norse version of the first doom of the gods and men) with the fall of Troy.  Sturluson noted that Asgard, home of the gods, was also called Troy.  Although Snorri was a Christian, he treated the ancient religion with great respect (how sweet).  Snorri was writing at the time when all of Scandinavia (including Iceland) had converted to Christianity by 11th century, and he was well aware of classical Greek and Roman mythology.  Stories of Troy had been known from antiquity in many cultures.  The Trojan War was the greatest conflict in Greek mythology, a war that was to influence people in literature and arts for centuries.  Snorri mentioned God and the Creation, Adam and Eve, as well as Noah and the flood.  He also compared a few of the Norse gods to the heroes at the Trojan War (it may be interesting to remember that EXACTLY at the same time in France and England they were writting more or less the same thing along with Arthur cycle claiming that francos and a few others were the ascendants of the Franks).

 

The Aesir/Asir were divided into several groups that in successive stages emigrated to their new Scandinavian homeland.  Entering the Baltic Sea, they sailed north to the Scandinavian shores, only to meet stubborn Germanic tribes, who had been fighting the Romans(proof, proof, proof or shall I say spoof spoof spoof).  The prominent Germanic tribes in the region were the Gutar, also known as the Guta, Gutans, Gotarne or Goths by Romans.  These Germanic tribes were already known to the Aesir, as trade in the Baltic areas was well established prior to 100 BC.  The immigrating Aesir had many clans and tribes, and one prominent tribe that traveled along with them were the Vanir (the Vanir later became known as the Danir/Daner, and subsequently the Danes, who settled in what is now present-day Denmark).  However, the most prominent clan to travel with the Asir were the Eril warriors or the "Erilar", meaning "wild warriors".  The Asir sent Erilar north as seafaring warriors to secure land and establish trade (these warriors were called "Earls" in later Scandinavian society).  The clans of Erilar (also called Jarlar, Eruls or Heruls by Romans, and Eruloi or Elouroi by Greek historian Dexippos) enabled the Asir clans (later called Svi, Sviar, Svea, Svear or Svioner by Romans) to establish settlements throughout the region, but not without continuous battles with the Goths and other migrating Germanic tribes.  The Eruls/Heruls eventually made peace with the Goths who ruled the region.  The tribes of Svear, Vanir, and Heruls soon formed their own clans and dominated the Baltic/Scandinavian region.  The Gothic historian Jordanes (or Jordanis), who was a notary of Gothic kings, told in about 551 AD that the Daner were from the same stock as the Svear, both taller and fairer than any other peoples of the North.  He called the Svear, "Sve'han".  (I see no evidence nowhere)

 

The Svear population flourished, and with the Heruls and Goths, formed a powerful military alliance of well-known seafarers.  The Svear and Heruls then gradually returned to their ancestral land, beginning in the 2nd century AD, building a fleet of 500 sailing ships (including 15 aircraft-carriers and the Bismarck).  Sometimes sailing with the Goths, they terrorized all of the lands and peoples of the Black Sea and parts of the Mediterranean, even the Romans.  They were the pre-Vikings (which makes them pre-pre-turkic).  In the 3rd century (267 AD) the Heruls controlled all of the Roman-occupied Black Sea and parts of the eastern Mediterranean.  There are several accounts about how the Herul warriors returned to ravage the shores of the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, alone and together with the Goths.  The Romans (all of them together?) noted that "the Heruls, a Scandinavian people, together with the Goths, were, from the 3rd century AD (ClapClapClap), ravaging the Black Sea, Asia Minor and the Mediterranean."  While the Romans called the Scandinavian region "Thule" (after Pytheas), the Greeks called it "Scandia" (from ancient times), and others called the area "Scandza".  The term Scandia comes from the descendants of Ashkenaz (grandson of Noah in the Bible).  Known as the Askaeni, they were the first peoples to migrate to northern Europe, naming the land Ascania after themselves.  Latin writers and Greeks called the land Scandza or Scandia (now Scandinavia).  Germanic tribes, such as the Teutons and Goths, are considered the descended tribes of the Askaeni and their first settlements.

 

The first time Thule (Scandinavia) was mentioned in Roman written documents was in the 1st century (79 AD) by the Roman citizen Plinius senior.  He wrote about an island peninsula in the north populated by "Sviar", "Sveonerna" or "Svearnas" people, also called "Sveons", "Svianar", "Svetidi" or "Suetidi" by others.  Later in 98 AD the learned civil servant Cornelius Tacitus wrote about northern Europe.  Tacitus writes in the Latin book Germania about tribes of "Sviones" or "Suiones" (Latin Sviones was derived from Sviar) in Scandinavia, who live off the ocean, sailing in large fleets of boats with a prow at either end, no sail, using paddles, and strong, loyal, well-armed men with spikes in their helmets.  They drove both the Goths and Lapps out of Scandinavia.  Archaeological finds have provided a vivid record of the evolution of their longships from about the 4th century BC.  Tacitus further wrote, "And thereafter, out in the ocean comes Sviones (also "Svionernas" or "Svioner") people, which are mighty not only in manpower and weaponry but also by its fleets".  He also mentions that "the land of Svionerna is at the end of the world."  In the 2nd century (about 120 AD) the first map was created where Scandinavia (Baltic region) could be viewed.  Greek-Egyptian astronomer and geographer Ptolemaios (Ptolemy of Alexandria) created the map, and at the same time wrote a geography where he identified several different people groups, including the "Gotarne", "Heruls", "Sviar" and "Finnar" who lived on peninsula islands called "Scandiai".  During the Roman Iron Age (1-400 AD), evidences are convincing for a large Baltic seafaring culture in what is now Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Estonia.

 

Many clans of Aesir and Germanic peoples were united by settlements.  For example, the Aesir clan Suevi (also Suebi) settled among Germanic peoples in a region called Swabia (named after themselves), which is now southwest Germany.  Those clans became known as the Alemanni, first mentioned about 213 AD after attacking the Romans.  Called Suevic tribes by historians, they formed an alliance for mutual protection against other Germanic tribes and the Romans, and retained their tribal designation until the late Middle Ages.

 
By the 5th century, the Aesir Heruls were in great demand as soldiers in the Roman Imperial Guards.  The Romans were impressed with the war-like Heruls, and recruited them to fight in the Roman Army.  Herul factions were making settlements throughout
Europe, fighting and battling everywhere they went.  In the late 5th century, the Heruls formed a state in upper Hungary under the Roman ruler Csar Anastasius (491-518 AD).  Later they attacked the Lombards, but were beaten, according to Greek-Roman author Prokopios (born at the end of the 5th century).  He was a lawyer in Constantinople and from the year 527 private secretary to the Byzantine military commander Belisarius on his campaigns against the Ostrogoths.  Prokopios says by the early 6th century (about 505), the remaining Heruls in upper Hungary were forced to leave.  Some of them crossed the Danube into Roman territory, where Anastasius allowed them to settle.  Historians mention that remaining clans of Heruls sailed northwards, back to Thule to reunite with their Svear brethren.  Prokopios noted that there were 13 populous tribes in Thule (the Scandinavian peninsula), each with its own king.  He said, "A populous tribe among them was the Goths, next to where the returning Heruls settled".  Prokopios also mentions that "the Heruls sent some of their most distinguished men to the island Thule in order to find and if possible bring back a man of royal blood.  When they came to the island they found many of royal blood."

 
Evidence of their existence during this time period can be found on the frequent appearance of runic inscriptions with the name Erilar "the Herul".  While it is thought that the ancient Scandinavian alphabet, called futhork or runes, is of Latin origin, the evidence suggests that it was used far to the northeast of
Rome where Roman influence did not reach.  The runes are a corruption of an old Greek alphabet, used by Trojans along the northwest coast of the Black Sea.  From examples of Etruscan, Greek, and early Roman scripts, it is not difficult to see that earlier runes resemble archaic Greek and Etruscan rather than Latin.  The Heruls used runes in the same way their ancestors did, which have been discovered throughout Europe and Scandinavia.  Scandinavian sagas tell us that the Scandinavian languages began when men from central Asia settled in the north.  Sometime after 1300 AD the runes were adjusted to the Roman alphabet.

 

The Heruls brought with them a few Roman customs, one being the Julian calendar, which is known to have been introduced to Scandinavia at this time, the early 6th century AD.  When the Heruls returned to join again with the Svear in Scandinavia, the Svear state with its powerful kings suddenly emerges.  Their ancestors were the warring bands of Aesir (sometimes called Eastmen) who became known as the Svear or Suines.  They became the dominant power and waged war with the Goths, winning rule over them.  By the middle of the 6th century, the first all-Swedish kings emerged.  This royal dynasty became immensely powerful and dominated not only Sweden but also neighboring countries.  Gothic historian Jordanes writes of the Suines or Suehans (Sve'han) of Scandinavia, with fine horses, rich apparel and trading in furs around 650 AD.  The Swedish nation has its roots in these different kingdoms, created when the king of the Svenonians (Svears) assumed kingship over the Goths.  The word Sweden comes from the Svenonians, as Sverige or Svearike means "the realm of the Svenonians".  The English form of the name is probably derived from an old Germanic form, Svetheod, meaning the Swedish people.


By the 7th century, the Svear and Goth populations dominated the areas of what is now
Sweden, Denmark and Norway.  However, the term Norway came later.  Latin text from around 840 AD called the area Noruagia, and Old English text from around 880 AD used Norweg.  The oldest Nordic spelling was Nuruiak, written in runes on a Danish stone from around 980 AD.  The Old Norse (Old Scandinavian) spelling became Nordvegr, meaning "the country in the north" or "the way to the north", and the people were called Nordes.  All of the names were given by people south of Norway to signify a place far to the north.  The people of Norway now call themselves Nynorsk, a name decided by linguists in the 1880s.  The name Denmark originated from the people called the Vanir (or Vaner) who settled the region with the Aesir in the first century BC.  The Vanir were later called Danir (or Daner), and eventually Danes.  By the 9th century AD, the name Danmark (Dan-mrk, "border district of the Danes") was used for the first time.  In Old Norse, mrk meant a "forest," and forests commonly formed the boundaries of tribes.  In Modern Danish, mark means a "field," "plain", or "open country".  Hence, Denmark once meant literally "forest of the Danes."  During this period, their language Dnsk tunga (Danish tongue) was spoken throughout northern Europe, and would later be called Old Norse or Old Scandinavian during the Viking period.  Old Norse was spoken by the people in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, and parts of Germany
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The ancestor of all modern Scandinavian languages, beginning with the Germanic form, was developed from the languages of the Aesir (Thracian tribes) and Goths (Germanic tribes).  When the Aesir integrated with the people of the lands, their families became so numerous in
Scandinavia and Germany that their language became the language of all the people in that region.  The linguistic and archaeological data seem to indicate that the final linguistic stage of the Germanic languages took place in an area which has been located approximately in southern Sweden, southern Norway, Denmark and the lower Elbe river which empties into the North Sea on the northwest coast of Germany.  The Germanic tribes began arriving in the area about 1000 BC.  Later, the Aesir brought their language to the north of the world, to Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Germany.  The future rulers of Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland trace their names and genealogies back to the Aesir.  The most ancient inscriptions in Old Norse/Scandinavian are from the 3rd and 5th century centuries AD, with other inscriptions dating up to the 12th century.  They were short signs written in the futhork runic alphabet, which had 24 letters (though many variations were used throughout the region).  By the end of the Viking era (11th century AD), the Old Norse language dialect varieties grew stronger until two separate languages appeared, Western Scandinavian, the ancestor of Norwegian and Icelandic, and Eastern Scandinavian, the ancestor of Swedish and Danish.  Many Old Norse words were borrowed by English, and even the Russian language, due to expansion by Vikings.

 

Off topic


The next Svear conquests began in the early 8th century.  By 739 AD the Svear and Goths dominated the Russian waterways, and together they were called Varyagans or Varangians, according to written records of the Slavs near the Sea of Azov.  Like their ancestors, the Svear lived in large communities where their chiefs would send out maritime warriors to trade and plunder.  Those fierce warriors were called the Vaeringar, which meant literally "men who offer their service to another master".  We later know them by their popularized name, the Vikings.  Thus began the era known as the Viking Age, 750-1066 AD.  They often navigated the Elbe river, one of the major waterways of central Europe.  Their ships were the best in all of Europe? sleek, durable and could travel by both sail and oars.  To the east of the Elbe they were known as Varangians, and west of the Elbe they were called Vikings.  Many called them Norse or Northmen? those from the Scandinavian countries, which consisted of Sweden, Norway and Denmark.  Once again the Svear began returning to the places of their Thracian ancestors in the Caucasus region (a bit like pigeons), sailing rivers which stretched deep into Russia, establishing trading stations and principalities.  Other Vikings raided the British Isles and western Europe, as noted in this Old English prayer:  "A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine" (From the fury of the Northmen deliver us, Oh Lord).

  

Vikings never called themselves Vikings.  Unlike Varangian, the term Viking probably originated from Frankish chroniclers who first called them "Vikverjar" (travelers by sea), Nordic invaders who attacked the city of Nantes (in present-day France) in 843 AD.  The word "vik" meant bay or fjord in Old Norse, and later meant "one who came out from or frequented inlets to the sea".  Viking and Varangian eventually became synonymous, meaning "someone who travels or is passing through," whether merchant, mercenary, or marauder.  Their activities consisted of trading, plundering and making temporary settlements (see Viking Routes).  Finnish peoples referred to the Swedish voyagers as Ruotsi, Rotsi or Rus in contrast with Slavic peoples, which was derived from the name of the Swedish maritime district in Uppland, called "Roslagen", and its inhabitants, known as "Rodskarlar".  Rodskarlar or Rothskarlar meant "rowers" or "seamen".  Those Swedish conquerors settled in eastern Europe, adopted the names of local tribes, integrated with the Slavs, and eventually the word "Rusi", "Rhos" or "Rus" came to refer to the inhabitants.  The Arab writer Ibn Dustah wrote that Swedish Vikings were brave and valiant, utterly plundering and vanquishing all people they came against.  Later, the Arabic diplomat Ibn Fadlan, while visiting Bulgar (Bulgaria) during the summer of 922 AD, saw the Swedish Vikings (Rus) arrive, and he wrote:  "Never before have I seen people of more perfect physique; they were tall like palm trees, blonde, with a few of them red.  They do not wear any jackets or kaftaner (robes), the men instead wear dress which covers one side of the body but leaves one hand free.  Every one of them brings with him an ax, a sword and a knife."  Their descriptions mirror the physique, dress and armor of Trojan warriors? the Viking ancestors (??? good joke, so the Troyans were tall, blond and used axe and long sword? are you joking or are your joking? And by the way, what a chance that in almost two millenia their gene pool didn't change at all nor their way of dressing or of waging war).  The various ancestors of the Vikings included the Thracian tribes (Asir) and the Germanic tribes (Goths).

 

The Vikings included many tribes and kingdoms from around the Baltic Sea, including the Svear from Sweden, the Norde from Norway, the Danes from Denmark, the Jutes from Juteland (now part of Denmark), the Goths from Gotland (now part of Sweden), the Alands from land (now part of Finland), the Finns from Finland, and others.  The Svear Vikings traveled primarily east to the Mediterranean (what is now Russia and Turkey), where they had been returning regularly since leaving the region 900 years earlier.  Subsequent Viking raids and expeditions covered areas deep into Russia, the Middle East, Europe and America, ending in the 11th century (about 1066 AD) after the introduction of Christianity around the year 1000 AD.  The kingships and provinces of Sweden then combined to form one country.  The dominant king during the Viking age was from the Erik family of Uppsala.  One of the first Swedish monarchs in recorded history was Olof Skotkonung, a descendant of the Erik family.  Olof and his descendants ruled Sweden from about 995 to 1060.  Sweden
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