Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedReality of aggressive nationalism in Chin

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 11>
Author
flyingzone View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Reality of aggressive nationalism in Chin
    Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 22:01

I start this thread in response to the incessant (and sometimes tiresome) claims and counter-claims, accusations and counter-accusations between the Chinese and Korean forumers here about how bad "aggressive nationalism" has developed in both countries. For those of us who are not living in China and Korea, all those discussions have left us with the impression that "aggressive nationalism" has gotten out of control in both countries.

So once and for all, I would like to get this issue clarified. However, there is one rule that I will impose on the following discussions (if you guys care to participate in) on top of respecting AE Code. The rule is: Chinese forumers are only allowed to share with us what's happening in China, and Korean forumers are only allowed to tell us what's really going on in Korea.
 
You could discuss the following issues:
 
1. Is "aggressive nationalism" getting out of control in your country in your opinion?
2. If it is, give some examples, and try to explain to us why it is so.
3. If it is not, give us a realistic assessment of the influence of those aggressive nationalists in your country - socially and politically.
4. Whether the "aggressive nationalist" sentiment in your country is hugely prominent or highly marginalized, give us an analysis of the roots of such sentiment, e.g. Has nationalism become a potent tool for your government to boost popular support?  
 
While participating in this discussion, please refrain from using inflammatory language that denigrates another country. If that happens, this thread will be closed.
Back to Top
flyingzone View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 11:12
Isn't it funny that when one is talking about the rise and prevalence of ultranationalism in another country, one has endless accusations to make, but when it comes to that of one's own country, it's dead silence?
 
Sometimes silence speaks louder than words. 


Edited by flyingzone - 08-Oct-2006 at 11:22
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 16:51
Originally posted by flyingzone

 
Sometimes silence speaks louder than words. 


I agree Thumbs Up
Back to Top
I/eye View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 498
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 22:17

I just saw this thread now.. and although I've spoken about the Korean situation before, I can speak again..

 but first, please explain "aggressive" nationalism

Back to Top
flyingzone View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 22:51
According to Whiting (1995), there are three types of nationalism: affirmative, assertive and aggressive.
 
 
(1) Affirmative nationalism centres exclusively on "us" as a positive in-group referent with pride in attributes and achievements.
 
(2) Assertive nationalism adds "them" as a negative out-group referent that challenges the in-group's interests and possibly its identity.
 
(3) Aggressive nationalism identifies a specific foreign enemy as a serious threat that requires action to defend vital interests.
 
Hmmm .... I guess that's not very helpful, is it? Let's just make things more simple and just call it "ultranationalism".
Back to Top
I/eye View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 498
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 01:32
(3) Aggressive nationalism identifies a specific foreign enemy as a serious threat that requires action to defend vital interests.
there certainly exists aggressive nationalism in Korea, identifying Japan as a serious threat to Dokdo.
 
against China, there's only assertive nationalism..
 
 
and ultranationlism, such as displayed by this book(I was actually very surprized to see an actual book like this instead of just some web article), is just a target of ridicule..
 
here I'll give you an example:
 
 
this map makes fun of such ultranationalists by carrying on their nonsense further
 
some of the captions say:
 
Egypt's greatest god: Ra - proof of connection with Sin Ra
Baekje's subject country "Inga" was actually the Inca
Silla's subject country "Mada" was actually Madagascar
etc.


Edited by I/eye - 09-Oct-2006 at 01:56
Back to Top
flyingzone View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 10:01
An ill-informed AE former actually adamantly claimed that this book was published by the South Korean government. Even though I do not know specifically who wrote such nonsense, it didn't take much for me or anyone to figure out that the South Korean government was not involved in that. That's why my response to that person was, there are two kinds of naive people: (1) Those who actually believe in the nonsense written in that book and (2) Those who believe in another nonsense - that this is the official version of history endorsed by the South Korean government. Both are equally guilty - of being gullible and failing to think and question.
 
Unfortunately, this is how the distortion of information gets started and then perpetuated.
Back to Top
intem View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 28-Aug-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 01:35
Recently i just came across this forum and i find it quite possible too.
click below to enter link:
 
If you copy and past the word "invented" into the find browser and you'll see an paticipant under the name May giving a speech about her impression with the korean government.
 
I'll just briefly state her meanings in the forum. She speculates that the korean government are trying to hide away or shy away(apologise if this offends to koreans in the forum) from truth that korea had been long subjects of the chinese empire and similarly like what flyingzone just said about the korean governement was inevitably involved in this whole extreme nationalistic agenda.
 
However to be fair, i've seen claims about chinese saying that golf and whiskey was a chinese invention which i do find it really funny Clap . Anyway just a contribution to the topic and hopefully this sort of problem would cease as well as in CHF and so to other forums that had related problems that was polluting it.
J.T.I.J
Back to Top
jiangweibaoye View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 10:49
I think :
 
1. The Chinese should be more humble & realize that we did not invent everything & we are not the center of the world.
 
2. The Japanese should be more reflective (especially their colonial periods) & realize that they really are East Asians & not some pseudo Aryan race.
 
3.  The Koreans should be less defensive & realize that many cultures (including Korean) incorporate aspects of other cultures & its okay to celebrate that.
 
Jiangwei
 
 
Back to Top
jiangweibaoye View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 10:50
Flyingzone,
 
Sorry, I broke your rule.
 
Jiangwei
Back to Top
Omnipotence View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 16-Nov-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 494
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 21:58
^I agree with all three points. Especially number 1, b/c I am the center of the world, and I invented everything.
Back to Top
Degredado View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Portugal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 366
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 08:12
I/eye,  could you please translate all of those captions? I'm jumping in my jimmies!Big smile
Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas
Back to Top
I/eye View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 498
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 22:07
Blue: Koguryo
Green: Baekje
Pink: Silla
 
England: Wessex is actually Usan, which was conquered by Silla
 
Viking: pirates that raided the coastline weren't Japanese, they were Vikings
 
Arabs merchants visiting Silla to trade -> in truth, subjects paying tribute
 
Hannibal has a Korean-style name (Han-Yi-Bal). It was the Japanese Empire that distorted him into a foreigner
 
Morocco: there are many states in Korean history whose name ends in "moroguk" the remnants relocated and founded Morocco.
 
the Sphinx is just a larger version of the Haetae
 
the fact that it was Koreans that found Taiwan is recognized by Taiwanese scholars
 
Easter isle heads are large versions of Dolharubang in Cheju. this is evidence that Koreans ruled the pacific for thousands of years
 
Alaska= the Koguryo-conquered Asula
 
American natives = Koreans that traveled across the sea
Back to Top
Preobrazhenskoe View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 398
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 02:12
Koreans have plenty to be proud of, why do they feel the need to utilize or even turn a glance at all this obviously fake crap floating around in literature and so forth? It is true that north Korea was under Chinese hegemony from the 2nd century BC until the early 4th century AD, but from that point on Goguryeo took over the areas of the commanderies, and Silla and Baekje rose in their own right. From that point on, Korean history was that of their own, not an extension of China (although they continued to borrow heavily from Chinese culture up until about the 10th century).
 
Anyways, something I am happy jiangweibaoye brought to the table:
 
1. The Chinese should be more humble & realize that we did not invent everything & we are not the center of the world.
 
2. The Japanese should be more reflective (especially their colonial periods) & realize that they really are East Asians & not some pseudo Aryan race.
 
3.  The Koreans should be less defensive & realize that many cultures (including Korean) incorporate aspects of other cultures & its okay to celebrate that.
 
That was very well said, and it needed to be said, I think.
 
Eric


Edited by Preobrazhenskoe - 25-Oct-2006 at 02:13
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:01
Funny,
 
S-Korean government said that Chinese words and Chinese medical science invented by Korean now.
 
Maybe we could see what Japanese said about Korean..


Edited by WEILLING - 25-Oct-2006 at 12:27
Back to Top
flyingzone View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 19:03
Weiling, could you please specify the source of your information?
 
As far as I remember, it is the second time you make a statement like this. Not long time ago in another thread, you claimed that the S. Korean government published a controversial historical textbook. When I asked you to substantiate this claim, you did not respond to it. This time, you are again claiming that the South Korean government is saying that Chinese words and Chinese medical science were invented by the Koreans.
 
I do not understand the motivation behind these claims. But let me tell you this: if you make any controversial statement like this without any legitimate reference (citation from a blog is NOT a legitimate reference in case you cannot tell the difference), your action will not be tolerated and will lead to first a warning then a permanent ban.
 
Please use this forum to discuss historical issues, not to spread any derogatory message against any ethnic or national group.
Back to Top
I/eye View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 498
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 21:08
Originally posted by Preobrazhenskoe

Koreans have plenty to be proud of, why do they feel the need to utilize or even turn a glance at all this obviously fake crap floating around in literature and so forth? It is true that north Korea was under Chinese hegemony from the 2nd century BC until the early 4th century AD, but from that point on Goguryeo took over the areas of the commanderies, and Silla and Baekje rose in their own right. From that point on, Korean history was that of their own, not an extension of China (although they continued to borrow heavily from Chinese culture up until about the 10th century).
 
it is not the general Koreans that do it. they are small in number, it's just that they are loud on the net
 
I have no idea why they would do it.. people like me, we are tired of correcting them so we just make fun of them.. instead of using logic, I have started to say things like, "then are you saying our ancestors were total retards for losing all that territory?" and some people make parodies like the one i posted above, and here's another:
 
left: human-faced stone on Mars
right: human-faced stone in Korea
"Mars" in Korean, is Hwasung. there is also a city named Hwasung in Korea.
these are undeniable proofs that Koreans ruled Mars.
 
but just one thing.. you made it sound as if Korean history started with Koguryo, Baekje, Silla, but there were prior states like Choson, 3 Hans, etc..
Back to Top
Preobrazhenskoe View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 398
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 22:17
but there were prior states like Choson, 3 Hans, etc.
 
Right, I forgot to include the first Choson, but if you noticed I did mention the Han commanderies.
 
Anyways, nice comparison with the Mars pic! Lol.
 
Eric
Back to Top
intem View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 28-Aug-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 17:12
Originally posted by flyingzone

Weiling, could you please specify the source of your information?
 
As far as I remember, it is the second time you make a statement like this. Not long time ago in another thread, you claimed that the S. Korean government published a controversial historical textbook. When I asked you to substantiate this claim, you did not respond to it. This time, you are again claiming that the South Korean government is saying that Chinese words and Chinese medical science were invented by the Koreans.
 
I do not understand the motivation behind these claims. But let me tell you this: if you make any controversial statement like this without any legitimate reference (citation from a blog is NOT a legitimate reference in case you cannot tell the difference), your action will not be tolerated and will lead to first a warning then a permanent ban.
 
Please use this forum to discuss historical issues, not to spread any derogatory message against any ethnic or national group.
 
To Flyingzone,
 
I must say what Weiling said is true, and not that im supporting him of breaching the rules. Recently i've came across to this forum, "chinese language.com" where there was a korean claiming that chinese characters was invented by the koreans and so on. Click the link below.
 
 
Click the link below:
 
This link here shows you how those nationalist koreans proceed with their intentions.
 
Lastly, i hope this is a very good example of what not to be like one of those people. Everyone on the earth has the right to be proud of their own nationality and history but not too far that you even wanted to claim other peoples history.
J.T.I.J
Back to Top
flyingzone View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 17:39
What I dispute is WEILLING's claim that the Korean government is involved in that. Of course I know the existence of Korean ultranationalists. There are people like that in practically every country on earth.
 
It is the second time that WEILLING claims that the South Korean government is involved in actively promoting ultranationalism. This unsubstantiated claim is not only provocative, it is simply not true.
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 11>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.