Abrahams Origin in India?

I never saw so much nonsense spouted in such a short time.

Edited by gcle2003 - 18-Oct-2006 at 05:03

Originally posted by Leonidas can we seperate the vedism vs hinduism in another thread? this i want to get better attention

Yes this discussion  vedism  vs hinduism  is a non issue.  I wonder why people  want to call it a subject. Their is nothing called  vedism  vs hinduism.

We should discuss the subject of the thread which is a very interesting & informative analysis.

Originally posted by Leonidas in your logic judism and christianty are the same religion. hinduism was based of vedism as far as ive learnt, which makes them linked but that doesnt mean they are the same

Edited by Vedam - 18-Oct-2006 at 08:52

Originally posted by Vedam   This analogy is not correct, because Jesus is not thought of as a Messiah/saviour in Judaism, hence the split. By contrast to be a Hindu you have to believe in the santity of the vedas, which in effect are Hindu religious rituals. Basically you cannot have  Hindu ceremony such as a wedding or funeral without the vedas as these are the hymns that are used (ie mantras are chanted from the vedas)  The comparison of Judaism and christianity is more comparable to Hinduism and Buddhism.

really? he was their "savoiur" and from their god, but many didnt agree and remained jewish. Jesus was a jew and his beliefs and many within christianity came out of that religion. The new testament cant be read without the old one which is almost the same book as the jewish torah. hence the split isnt complete, and definatly not like what your saying, yet they are two religions.

wasn't indra number one in the vedism? did the brahman-vishnu-shiva trinity exists in the earliest writings (rig-veda)? because i was led to belive the gods of the earliest vedas were different to the ones of today and the vedic gods now are not so important.

So please if your show me where in the rig-veda are these hindu gods, because i keep getting Indra, agni, maruts , rudra and so on.

if so ill shut up, promise.

Vivek, they are related, but to say they are the same thing would not make sense either. Hinduims has evolved , to say it has remianed static in all this history would go agianst anything that is subject to time.


Edited by Leonidas - 18-Oct-2006 at 09:47

Originally posted by Vedam Teldeinduz do some more research Brahma, Visnu and Shiva are all deities in the Vedas, and the caste that you are an expert in are also first mentioned in the Vedas.

This is not true. The Rig Veda has 191 verses, over 100 of these verses speak on only 2 Gods, both of the Aryan..Agni and Indra (see the Rig Veda  here). The Hindu Gods you refer to like Vishnu there is 1 verse each out of the 191. This is most likely some extra verses that were added in later when the Veda was written and simply corrupted.

The Caste system is not mentioned in the Veda at all. The first time it is mentioned is in the Bhagavada Gita by Krishna while talking about the need for Brahmins to be knowledgable, Kshatriyas to be good warriors etc. Vedic people did not use the caste system. When a couple of the Vedic Aryan tribes moved to the Ganges, different forms of the caste system were created.

Edited by TeldeInduz - 18-Oct-2006 at 14:22

Originally posted by Vedam OK teldeInduz, i have caught you out, you have obviously done just a bit of research, probably on the internet, and then you have the audacity to tell me about what you think you know although you have shown your lack of knowledge and obviously NEVER read the Rig veda. A comparison could be me telling you about the Koran. All of your comments about the Rig Veda are only refering to the 1st book, because you obviously didn't realise you were just on the first book with your "Link". The Rig Veda actually has 10 books, of which the 2nd and 9th are the oldest parts. The "Rig veda has 191 verses"  according to you, well firstly i  think you mean hymns and it has 1028 hymns, and it actually has over 10,000 verses. The first and the last books have 191 hymns each. The caste system is mentioned in book 10, hymn 90 and is called the Purus-sukta hymn or hymn of Man, a very famous hymn.... The mouth became Brahmin, the arms Kshatrya etc. I am not going to debate about this with you anymore because i realise you have not actually read the Rig Veda or you would not have made such an INCORRECT comment but just tried to read up about it, and speak as if you are so knowlegeable about it,  a complete waste of my time. Thankyou and Byebye.

Edited by TeldeInduz - 18-Oct-2006 at 16:41

TeleInduz, quote;

"Vedism was brought to the Ganges by the Aryans and then the Gangetic people were first brought under control by it, then they took control of it. Hinduism developed out of Vedism. In fact, the Hindu Gods sometimes slay the Vedic Gods in the Hindu theology books. Indra (Aryan) is slain by Krishna (Hindu) in the Mahabharta."

The Mahabarata seem to be the first description we have from a revolutionary change - in an established state with advanced political, social and cultural institutions. The old nobility of the Aryans seem to have been the big loosers in the war that broke out. Thus the highest amongst them would be able to assemble a large amount of people and resources - and emigrate them, rather than risking their lives at home.  The semittic immigrants to Mesopotamia and the Levant could very well be refugees from the Aryan nobility that lost out in the great warfare of Krisha. 

Krishna is supposed to be a historical person, existing some 4.000 years ago. The first battles known from Mesopotamia is known from Ur - are supposed to be some 3.800 years old. Could that be the results of a conflict between the immigrating Indo-Aryans (semites) and the native Sumerians ("Suleimans")?

Originally posted by Boreasi TeleInduz, quote; "Vedism was brought to the Ganges by the Aryans and then the Gangetic people were first brought under control by it, then they took control of it. Hinduism developed out of Vedism. In fact, the Hindu Gods sometimes slay the Vedic Gods in the Hindu theology books. Indra (Aryan) is slain by Krishna (Hindu) in the Mahabharta." The Mahabarata seem to be the first description we have from a revolutionary change - in an established state with advanced political, social and cultural institutions. The old nobility of the Aryans seem to have been the big loosers in the war that broke out.