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Topic ClosedWhich is the strongest muslim country at

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Vivek Sharma View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which is the strongest muslim country at
    Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 05:56
Originally posted by Batu

correct me if i understood it wrongly,somebody said that Afghanistan the strongest muslim country?


NO, I said they are the strongest muslim country of the Indian Subcontinent
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 06:02
Afgans? You must be joking.
Before the USA envasion there were reports from Afghan with thei military and parades. They use pick up tracks for transportation. Their tanks doesn't even start their engines. Afghan is weekest than Albania
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 06:51
Originally posted by maqsad

[QUOTE=Vivek Sharma] [QUOTE=maqsad] [QUOTE=Vivek Sharma]
When I say that east panjabis and west panjabis are the same stock I am implying the exact opposite.

Dear brother, first decide what you want to say & what you want to imply. When both become same, then make the statement. Otherwise you will not present a picture of a very intelligent person.

You were the one who said that east panjabi jatts were different from "pakistani muslims"

Yes, I did & still maintain that they are different religiously. Don't you agree with this fact ? Eastern one's are Indians & western ones are muslim.

and I countered by saying they are from the exact same roots

You are right they both have the same original Hindu roots. In fact the whole of Pakistan & Afghanistan does, but you did'nt counter my statement that they are religiously different.


and that there are no people in India who are closer to the "India Sikhs" (who you seem to have such affection for, along with the pathans for some reason) genetically, linguistically and geographically than the paki muslim jatts and rajputs  are.

 Again this statement speaks of your ignorance of geography. As I have maintained earlier in my posts, western (Pakistani) punjab was much smaller than the eastern (Indian) punjab.

The no. of people who are similiar to the Sikhs is for above regions much higher than your claims. This is a fact although I don't buy your theory of similarity, which has no basis.

And what you are referring to as pakistani muslims, jatts & rajputs were Westrern pakistani muslims, jats & rajputs before 1972, Indian
muslims, jatts & rajputs before 1947 & Hindu jatts & rajputs originally.

Those who could resist the conversion to islam, the more committed ones, remained Indians, other became Pakistanis


In fact your current Prime Minister is a paki sikh is he not? Think Vivek Think! Before you post.

Yes our current prime minister is a pakistani, And that goes for me too. Its just like your Musharraf is an Indian. What is there to think in this ? even our previous Dy. PM Advani was pakistani. When Benazir bhutto used to come to India, the Indo Pak dialogue used to be done in Sindhi.
because the whole of pakistan is Indian after all.


Look if I am referring to the British and the Sikhs and panjabi soldiers then obviously I mean battles fought by the Panjabi soldiers when it was under British command and invaded deep into Afghanistan.

But again you had got the dates & periods of history mixed up. There were no Britishers at the time period you were referring to (as borne out from the literal meaning of your statements, I can't say about what implications you had in mind, because you said you state one thing & imply the opposite. )

The British did use these people but at a much later period, when they came into India.

I do believe they used sikhs to fight against the afridis, capture the khyber, sack charsai, in fact they also defeated the hunzakuts. I am sure that panjabi soldiers were involved in those battles

You are for once absolutely right here, if you are implying what you are literally saying.

why would they not be? The jatts were one of the most ferocious panjabi tribes

No, the Jats are not one of the most ferocious punjabi tribes, the punjabis are one of the most ferocious amongst the jat people. You again need to refurbish your study of geography & people here.


and the British recognised that.

They Rightly did, for it deliverd them spectacular results.
But the clinching factor & most destructive (for the Afghans) was the Sappers regiment, which consisted of neither the jats nor the punjabis


Also the british considered the Jatts, the Hunzakuts and the Pathans to be the physically strongest groups in the subcontinent along with the marathas and gurkas so there is no way they would NOT have Jatt Sikhs in their shock attack troops because number one many Jatts were Sikhs and would not lose Morale fighting their "fellow muslim brothers" and secondly the Sikh Jatts were present in huge numbers and thus easy to recruit and thirdly of course they(sikhs) wanted to smash the remnants of the mughals into smithereens. No way would the brits leave sikh jatts out of the equation

You are right once more, thanks for coming to my viewpoint.


and many of them were from the paki side

But again go wrong here. There was no Pakistan in the world then, so being pakis is a sweet dream

...it was their old homeland.

Not that it was, It still is, We still consider it as our homeland.

So once again...what is your point..that the british would leave out "west panjabi" soldiers from their ranks when attacking afghanistan?

Yes & I am correct, the Brits did leave out the muslim punjabi soldiers after they had to face some terrible defeats at the hands of the Afghans. Then they brought in the Sappers, Sikhs, Jatts as reinforcements & replaced the muslim punjabi soldiers with these reinforcements. Then they were victorious.

Lol your reasoning isn't making any sense at all to me.

The righteous functioning of your senses is not my responsibility brother.

Oh and one more thing...Ranjit Singh was a paki too. He was born in Gujranwalla lol.

I told you I am also a Pakistani. So what's the point in searching for people who are pakistani. Request me I will give a list of hundreds of people like Ranjit Singh, Manmohan Singh etcccc........!!!


Now are you telling me because he was from a "paki muslim" area that he was too weak to lead and fight also?

No, I never said nor implied that. In fact Ranjit Singh smashed the Mughals & Afghans to smithereens. His rule extended to the boundries of Iran. But he was not a muslim punjabi. I think you will accept this.



Remeber Vivek....before 1947 there was no state of Pakistan!

Then why the hell you keep on calling all these pre 1947 persons Pakistani ? It's time you got your confusion cleared. Or tried to develop some co-ordiantion between what you write, what you want to say, what you imply & what you want to imply.

At least back your pseudohistory and your quack theories up with some verifiable facts. Its too easy(yet very tedious and unchallenging) to dispute you otherwise.

Again you are getting confused with facts & theory. I don't have to invent theories, Even if I just state facts, I can get you confused, since the facts would present a picture completely contrarian to what your hypothetically simulated theory would imply.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 07:03
Originally posted by perikles

Afgans? You must be joking.
Before the USA envasion there were reports from Afghan with thei military and parades. They use pick up tracks for transportation. Their tanks doesn't even start their engines. Afghan is weekest than Albania


You are absolutely right my dear Sir, But did I ever say that they are stronger than Albanians ?

I merely said that they are the strongest muslim country in the Indian subcontinent. & if you read my previous posts, You will appreciate the reason.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 07:42
maybe it was at 70s or 80s. But right now Pakistanians seems to be more organized and better equiped in that region
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 08:23
Originally posted by perikles

maybe it was at 70s or 80s. But right now Pakistanians seems to be more organized and better equiped in that region



Please read the reasoning provided by me in the previous posts. The Bulk of the pak army comes from the Afghans. And with problems on both sides the remaining pak army will be reduced in effectiveness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 04:47
Originally posted by Batu

correct me if i understood it wrongly,somebody said that Afghanistan the strongest muslim country?


You must understand Vivek. His obsession with pakistan compells him to praise Afghanistan in any way he possibly can get away with, just as long as pakistan gets dragged down in the argument.

Please do not ask him to provide any logic or reasoning when it comes to explaining any of his statements that involve both Pakistan and Afghanistan  because  you will be driven to the brink of insanity trying to  comprehend his  rationalizing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 06:58
Dude's we all know that Turkey is The strongest Muslim country, with: history, reputation, armor, planes, personel and fanatism. You guys ever heared of the kirmizi berets?  Trained while young, mostly orphans, THey have noting too lose.
The turkish army roxx dude. PAkistani 2 but i prefer too say that pako's are secondLOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 10:13
everybody knows iran is the most powerful those guys are gonna start ww3 soonDead
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 20:01
Maqsad
 
If i may also point out that Afridis served in great numbers in the british army and in lot of cases against fellow pashtuns. Similarly when the sikhs were used so were other outfits for fighting the afridis. In fact proportioally more muslims served in the british army than hindus.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 21:25
Originally posted by malizai_

Maqsad
 
If i may also point out that Afridis served in great numbers in the british army and in lot of cases against fellow pashtuns. Similarly when the sikhs were used so were other outfits for fighting the afridis. In fact proportioally more muslims served in the british army than hindus.
 
 


I know thats the case but I was just countering viveks ridiculous statements where he insists that if you are muslim and from "punjab" then you are not a good fighter yet he also says if you are either muslim or non muslim and from India you are a great fighter, if you are sikh and from india or pakistan then you are a great fighter, and of course he also means that if you were hindu and from pakistan you were a great warrior too.

I just used various examples and reasoning to point out how ridiculous his statements were. Historically, genetically, geographically his lunacy has no bearing. That was my point.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 09:03

Maqsad

If u really feel that way then there should come a point that u stop countering such arguments and be the wiser person. 
 
I think the main difference between the punjabi and pathan has been the readiness for a fight and not because of lack of fighting spirit on part of the Punjabis(land of the five riversWink). In punjabi society where there had been an abundance of land and produce the main preoccupation had been in farming. There had not been a centralised institute for gathering forces to face an external threat(until the sikhs), unlike with the pathan tribes where a tribal head's call to arms was usually sufficient. And because of the incessant infighting between the tribes and and subtribes over a millennia had led the pushtuns to be more conditioned for fighting. Also the pathan has been always more independent in nature than the punjabi, because of tiers of farming peasantry and role definitions in punjab. Then there is the geography and harsher environment which had made a hardier person of the pathans, Whereas the conditions for the Punjabis had been more idyllic. I would further add that it is also more difficult to defend on the plains of the punjab than the highlands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 19:28
Strongest and most modern muslim country today is Turkey. Our location gives Turks power. They have the second largest army in Nato with 800.000 troops. They have gained many skills fighting against the terrorists in South Eastern Turkey. Recently Turkish govenrment said that they will arm the troops with the latest weapons and they will make nuclear weapons by 2011.

Pakistan is strong because they have nukes. but they take too much credit for that. Sauudi Arabia is just rich they are dogs of USA. Iran is develping nukes too but they lack rich eceonomy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 21:15

I thought Nuclear programs are developed secretly. Maybe the Turkish government ,according to Celestial, have run couple of ads in the newspapers and some posters that announce 2011 is the opening of the Nuclear Weapon facilities. Please come and visit it and enjoy your day there.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 00:34
Originally posted by malizai_

Maqsad

If u really feel that way then there should come a point that u stop countering such arguments and be the wiser person. 
 
I think the main difference between the punjabi and pathan has been the readiness for a fight and not because of lack of fighting spirit on part of the Punjabis(land of the five riversWink). In punjabi society where there had been an abundance of land and produce the main preoccupation had been in farming. There had not been a centralised institute for gathering forces to face an external threat(until the sikhs), unlike with the pathan tribes where a tribal head's call to arms was usually sufficient. And because of the incessant infighting between the tribes and and subtribes over a millennia had led the pushtuns to be more conditioned for fighting. Also the pathan has been always more independent in nature than the punjabi, because of tiers of farming peasantry and role definitions in punjab. Then there is the geography and harsher environment which had made a hardier person of the pathans, Whereas the conditions for the Punjabis had been more idyllic. I would further add that it is also more difficult to defend on the plains of the punjab than the highlands.



Thanks, At last you have got my point. I am relieved
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 00:38
Originally posted by malizai_

Maqsad
 
If i may also point out that Afridis served in great numbers in the british army and in lot of cases against fellow pashtuns. Similarly when the sikhs were used so were other outfits for fighting the afridis. In fact proportioally more muslims served in the british army than hindus.
 
 


This is exactly what I said. Only thing being that in the Afghan war, these regiments were not used for obvious reasons. But these regiments very valiantly & bravely served the British in the 1857 war of Indian independence against Indians & were very successfull in figting the Marathas & Sikh nationalists at a later stage.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 09:41
i agree with celestial.Turkey has the most experienced and best commandos in the world.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 11:10
Originally posted by ok ge

I thought Nuclear programs are developed secretly. Maybe the Turkish government ,according to Celestial, have run couple of ads in the newspapers and some posters that announce 2011 is the opening of the Nuclear Weapon facilities. Please come and visit it and enjoy your day there.


    +1
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 11:45
Originally posted by Sparten

Pakistan has nukes. End of discussion.


Peasants with nukes, that's what I find so disturbing.

I would send them all to ethnics lessons, but they believe that mastering the necessary technology is already enough for handling these weapons. These states with their medieval mind-set really need to catch up on the ethnical side, too. An ape with a machine gun is still an ape, if you ask me.


Edited by Gun Powder Ma - 26-Sep-2006 at 11:48
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 01:02
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

Originally posted by Sparten

Pakistan has nukes. End of discussion.


Peasants with nukes, that's what I find so disturbing.

I would send them all to ethnics lessons, but they believe that mastering the necessary technology is already enough for handling these weapons. These states with their medieval mind-set really need to catch up on the ethnical side, too. An ape with a machine gun is still an ape, if you ask me.

You are right. Actually this nuke thing is a great misnomer of power. At the most I would say it has only a nuisance value. The economy is what matters most these days.






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