Topic: Which is the strongest muslim country at Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 09:48
2nd The landing in Cyprus failed the operation was successful because there was not real Greek responce
3nd In Korean war there were many countries not only Turkey .
2. Operation was succesful because there was not real greek responce? Are you really being honoust? Pls read my post about what happened in Cyprus.
3. Is it a reason,that there were more countries, for not seeing the power of The Trkish Army?
Look at what this guy says in this article:
by Don Miller
The summer of 1996 found me for the first time in Turkey. My
destination was Edirne, a city near the Bulgarian border which served
as the capital of the Ottoman Empire until Christian Constantinople
fell to the Turks in 1453.Edirne is the site of the oldest continuing
athletic event in the world. Almost annually since 1640 hordes of
Turkey's finest athletes have gathered there for the Kirkpinar, the
world series of Turkish oil wrestling. Hardly any tourists attend the
tournament, and almost no Americans. Why did I go? Because of a book I
read in 1957.
My status as a college student, from 1950 to 1954, kept me deferred from
the draft thruout the Korean War, and I have always felt some shame that I
was spared when so many young men my age died in Korea. In 1957 I completed
graduate school, the year that Eugene Kinkead published his deeply
disturbing account of the mortality rate of American prisoners-of-war who
were incarcerated by the North Koreans.
The Russians, having developed the science of brain-washing, had taught it
to the Chinese, who passed it on to the North Koreans, who found that
American prisoners were ideal targets for psychological manipulation. Never
before - or since - were American soldiers shown to be so widely susceptible
to demoralization.
A study conducted by the U.S. Army Medical Corps after the war found that
one-third of American POWs were guilty to some degree of collaboration with
the enemy. In the three years of warfare, not a single one escaped from
captivity. Most alarming of all, out of 7,190 captives, the death rate was
38%, or 2,730. One out of three never came home. These statistics far
exceeded the rate for any other American war. Nine enlisted men and three
officers were later convicted by courts martial. The most notorious was a
Sgt. James Gallagher, who murdered three barracks-mates, helpless with
dysentery, by kicking them out into the snow to freeze in the dead of
winter.
The study revealed that neither physical torture nor lack of food or medical
care had caused the general collapse in morale. Once captured, many of our
men lost all sense of allegiance to their country or to one another. They
refused to obey their own officers, cursing and even striking them, buying
into their captors propaganda that capitalistic rank no longer existed. On
forced marches from one prison camp to another, able-bodied men would refuse
to lift the stretchers of the wounded. The strong regularly took food from
the weak, and the sick were ignored . . . or worse. Many prisoners simply
withdrew into a state of isolation and inactivity.
Our commissioned officers had been segregated out by the North Koreans, but
each compound still had senior non-coms who, had they established order,
would have prevented the tragedy. Instead, the men - chiefly the young -
were left free to become easy prey to their captors. Death came most often
from what Army psychiatrists simply termed "give-up-itis." First the
sufferer became despondent, later he lay down and covered his head with a
blanket, then he wanted ice water with his food, next only ice water, and if
noone managed to break thru, he was dead in three weeks.
The greatest number of North Korea's prisoners was, of course, American. Of
the twelve nations represented, however, the third most numerous were the
Turks, with 229. The U.S. Army study found them to have been just as
exemplary in prison as they were in battle. The Turks' secret weapons were
discipline, great pride in their brigade, and an unbroken chain of command.
The final official report contains this Turkish officer's account of his
prison experience:
"I told the Chinese commander of the camp that I was in charge of my group.
If he wanted anything done, he was to come to me, and I would see that it
was done. If he removed me, the responsibility would fall not on him but on
the man next below me, and after that on the man below him. And so on, down
thru the ranks, until there were only two privates left. Then the senior
private would be in charge. They could kill us, I told him, but they
couldn't make us do what we didn't want to do. Discipline was our
salvation, and we all knew it. If a Turk had questioned an order from his
superior to share his food or lift a [stretcher], the way I understand some
of your men did, he would literally have had his teeth knocked in. Not by
his superior, either, but by the Turk nearest to him. The Communists made
attempts to indoctrinate [us]. . .but they failed completely, and eventually
gave up."
The crowning consequence of this discipline was that, although half of the
229 were wounded when captured, not one died in prison. When a Turk got
sick, the rest nursed him to health. If he was ordered to the hospital, two
well Turks went along to minister to him hand and foot and to carry him back
to the compound when he was discharged. At mealtime two Turks were
dispatched to carry the food back, and it was divided equally down to the
last morsel. There was no hogging, no rule of dog eat dog, not ever.
Death by "give-up-itis" was impossible. While an American might curl up
alone at night and die in the bitter cold, the Turks all piled together in
one corner of their cell, and every hour the two on the outside would rotate
to the center of the pile. The Chinese guards actually grew to fear their
Turkish prisoners, as they watched the interminable wrestling matches which
kept them so tough - and, paradoxically, so loyal to one another.
As a consequence of this study President Eisenhower issued the now-famous
Uniform Code of Military Conduct, and the Korean experience, thank God, has
not repeated itself.
That was how, forty years ago, a book on the Korean War "hooked" me on
Turkey. My admiration was not then easy to admit, for I was a newly-minted
Anglican priest and these Turks were all misguided Moslems. I had
emerged from seminary equipped with my own fix on all the non-Christian
religions, and Moslems were fanatics who just wanted to kill everybody else.
Here I was, faced with evidence of Moslems who really lived the Golden Rule,
and of Christians whose self-absorption had produced despair and death. I
kept chewing on that paradox - and those stereotypes - until finally a
chance came to do some observation for myself.
Four times now I have visited Turkey, to see what kind of wrestlers the
Turks are and, more importantly, what kind of people they are. So impressed
was I by the Kirkpinar Festival, and the hundreds of athletes, officials and
dignitaries with whom I had my halting conversations, that I kept coming
back. These are guileless, friendly, physically awesome men who come from
every province of a big country just to wrestle, forty at a time, in a great
grassy field, barefoot and barechested, covered with olive oil, in 92-degree
summer heat. These fighters range in age from twelve to forty, and each
contest may last from a few minutes to an hour. I find it hard to imagine
many of our own wrestlers matching their stamina, or to be competing in such
a gruelling sport at the age of forty. The Turkish style with its dearth of
rules could not easily be introduced into our country, because the brotherly
trust which exists between the combatants is unknown in rule-rich American
sports. There are referees, but their involvement is minimal. Turks oiled
bodies are so difficult to grasp that, in seeking to secure leverage for a
throw, a wrestler is permitted to thrust his hand or his entire forearm down
into his opponent's leather trousers, something which would freak out any
Western athlete. Intentional fouls are almost non-existent. There is no such
thing as a draw, the match continuing until one wins and the other loses.
A most impressive aspect of the tournament is the participants almost
universal comradeliness. Opponents will kibitz and joke with one another
while waiting for their line to be sent onto the field. Before tying up for
this fight to the finish each pair engages in elaborate Islamic rituals of
respect for one another. If during the match one wrestler should get
something in his eye the struggle simply pauses, his opponent usually
fetches cloth and water to wash it away, then they face off, and the fight
is resumed. Once the match is decided they rise to embrace, touch
foreheads together and leave the field. A foreign observer must ask how much
these deeply-ingrained wrestling traditions contribute to the fact that
Turks historically stick together in tough situations, while we Americans
seem often inclined to "look out for Number One.
When the three-day tournament draws to a close, and the champions have been
cheered by a packed stadium, the President of Turkey crowns the Bash
Pehlivan of all Turkey, a national hero frequently honored by his home town
with a statue. The current Turkish champion, whom I am privileged to
consider a friend, is also a champion Sumo wrestler in Japan. Almost forty,
but in extraordinary shape, he confesses to a longing to take up American
football.
Fellow Americans, we have a lot to learn from the Turks and the way their
wrestlers treat one another even when they are fighting. We must go on
struggling to love and care for one another despite the immense racial,
ethnic and religious differences which characterize American culture. If we
fail, then the individualism of which we proudly boast will be our undoing
at the hand of some other power whose people have learned to stick together
for the common good. Jesus, as always, hit the mark when he said, "Greater
love hath no man, than that he lay down his life for his friends."
It is simply not enough that we be cajoled to celebrate our diversity,
which is no more than a glib piece of contemporary sloganeering. Americans
will either become genuine brothers, bound together by a compassion which
transcends mere tolerance, or this first great world experiment in democracy
is destined to fade and crumble.
Northern part of Cyprus is called illegal occupied....? Are you making jokes, or are you just a Trk hater? The Northern part of Cyprus is called:
Guys you are convinced for everything. In Cyprus in 1974 happen an ethnic cleansing do i have to remind you who else did ethnic cleansing .
You baptized it peace operation but apeace operation is protecting the human right of all the nations.If somebody don t agree with you become a Turk hater.
remind me anything you want. What did we baptized? Peace operation? Come on mate, you can do better than this. Go one or two pages earlier and you will find my post of what happened in Cyprus, i dont want to repeat things.
2nd The landing in Cyprus failed the operation was successful because there was not real Greek responce
3nd In Korean war there were many countries not only Turkey .
4th That the Turkish Airforce is among the best in the world is your own conclusion because Turkish Air force never prove it that is among the best in the world.
2. Operation was succesful because there was not real greek responce? Are you really being honoust? Pls read my post about what happened in Cyprus.
3. Is it a reason for not seeing,that there were more countries, for not seeing the power of The Trkish Army?
If you want to learn what really happen in Cyprus i suggest to read
Mehmet Ali Birand and his book 30 sicak gun If you want we can also describe all the facts step by step to see when start the first greek response to see what exactly happen in the landing but we cannot because Cyprus issue is black list .We must ask license to do it.
The power of an army you can see it if he is alone in the battlefield not under the umbrella of Us army.
Pls dont copy paste propaganda articles nobody read these.
Northern part of Cyprus is called illegal occupied....? Are you making jokes, or are you just a Trk hater? The Northern part of Cyprus is called:
Guys you are convinced for everything. In Cyprus in 1974 happen an ethnic cleansing do i have to remind you who else did ethnic cleansing .
You baptized it peace operation but apeace operation is protecting the human right of all the nations.If somebody don t agree with you become a Turk hater.
remind me anything you want. What did we baptized? Peace operation? Come on mate, you can do better than this. Go one or two pages earlier and you will find my post of what happened in Cyprus, i dont want to repeat things.
Only the Turkish state call it peace operation i would also call it if it would be protected the human rights of G/C.Instead of protection we had an ethnic cleansing .Probably you want to have a new definition for the word peace.
2nd The landing in Cyprus failed the operation was successful because there was not real Greek responce
3nd In Korean war there were many countries not only Turkey .
4th That the Turkish Airforce is among the best in the world is your own conclusion because Turkish Air force never prove it that is among the best in the world.
2. Operation was succesful because there was not real greek responce? Are you really being honoust? Pls read my post about what happened in Cyprus.
3. Is it a reason for not seeing,that there were more countries, for not seeing the power of The Trkish Army?
If you want to learn what really happen in Cyprus i suggest to read
Mehmet Ali Birand and his book 30 sicak gun If you want we can also describe all the facts step by step to see when start the first greek response to see what exactly happen in the landing but we cannot because Cyprus issue is black list .We must ask license to do it.
The power of an army you can see it if he is alone in the battlefield not under the umbrella of Us army.
Pls dont copy paste propaganda articles nobody read these.
Look, you sayed something wrong about korean war, and i only gave you an example of the trued. I didnt say that only this shows the strongness of Trkish Army. There are many examples after ww2 which shows it. Exactly what you are doing is propaganda. Cyprus showed especially a very good example of the strongness of Trkish Army. You trying to deny this, and also trying to deny the fact of the massacre greek army and terrors made before Trkish Army interfere, and saying that the conquering of Trkish Army in Northern Cyprus is not a peaceful operation is also propaganda. Pls be more honoust.
and also ,our operation stopped agressions between greek fascists and Makarios's partizan's.That is way,that was a real peace operation for both side...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
Iran's military capability is, for the most part, unknown. But I would take Hezbollah's performance against the IDF as a vague benchmark, since they use Iranian weapons (including anti-tank) as well as the fact that they go to Iran for training.
this is a fact.the iranians and hizbulloah and the hamas of palestine are die hard fighters.remember before the war israel said we are going to get back our soldoers but nothing happened.the willingness to fight with these troops is very high whereas turkey will not even think of angering ameica or israel.
[/QUOTE] Look, you sayed something wrong about korean war, and i only gave you an example of the trued. I didnt say that only this shows the strongness of Tόrkish Army. There are many examples after ww2 which shows it. Exactly what you are doing is propaganda. Cyprus showed especially a very good example of the strongness of Tόrkish Army. You trying to deny this, and also trying to deny the fact of the massacre greek army and terrors made before Tόrkish Army interfere, and saying that the conquering of Tόrkish Army in Northern Cyprus is not a peaceful operation is also propaganda. Pls be more honoust. [/QUOTE]
Mate i can sure you that i m honest i m just saying that this terminology
about "peace operation" exist only in Turkey (the other world is using different terms about Cyprus if you dint realize it is your problem) .I m also say some facts about the military operation operation in Cyprus and i mention also a Turkish author Mehmet Ali Birand to read exactly what did happen in Cyprus and you are telling that i m doing propaganda The conclusion from what i m telling is that the Turkish army is not experience and is good in papers not in real battlefield
Look, you sayed something wrong about korean war, and i only gave you an example of the trued. I didnt say that only this shows the strongness of Tόrkish Army. There are many examples after ww2 which shows it. Exactly what you are doing is propaganda. Cyprus showed especially a very good example of the strongness of Tόrkish Army. You trying to deny this, and also trying to deny the fact of the massacre greek army and terrors made before Tόrkish Army interfere, and saying that the conquering of Tόrkish Army in Northern Cyprus is not a peaceful operation is also propaganda. Pls be more honoust. [/QUOTE]
Mate i can sure you that i m honest i m just saying that this terminology
about "peace operation" exist only in Turkey (the other world is using different terms about Cyprus if you dint realize it is your problem) .I m also say some facts about the military operation operation in Cyprus and i mention also a Turkish author Mehmet Ali Birand to read exactly what did happen in Cyprus and you are telling that i m doing propaganda The conclusion from what i m telling is that the Turkish army is not experience and is good in papers not in real battlefield
[/QUOTE]
Your other world is also the one who occured the WTC incident itself to get a false motive on iraq, your other world says it is against terrorism, except when it comes to pkk, european countries, example holland, supported this terrororganization, your other world would have killed all the armenians in a war when the armenians are working with the enemy, choosing their side and are making incidents which caused for thousands of Trkish innocent people, while the The Osmanlı Empire only drove them out of the land, your other world would have protested and meltdown the greeks for what they did in Cyprus before The Cyprus War, your other world is giving a fake-self-prepared english airport incident so much attention, but your other world doesnt care about the innocent people died in Lebanon, and your other world waited until israel won the war, which didnt happen and yet after this peaceful actions(leading actor: Trkiye) were made. Did i made myself clear, about how your other world does work?
So Turkey is right saying "peacefull operation" and the UN is wrong. This is a blacklist topic and we should not discussing that. After all we are offtopic. As i said whatever happened in Korea is 50 years ago. Nothing to be compared with today. Is this a fact that muslins counries are not the most powerfull of the world. But among them Egypt, Turkey and countriesl ike Indonesia and Iran (For which we don't have data) should not be considered minor powers.
The most powerful muslin country is not supposed to be a super power. The most powerfull muslin country is weakest than many mediocre Europeans countries. I mean Dutch, Spain, Italy, Sweden which are not considered super powers are more strong than all the muslin countries (separatevely of course).
The most powerful muslin country is not supposed to be a super power. The most powerfull muslin country is weakest than many mediocre Europeans countries. I mean Dutch, Spain, Italy, Sweden which are not considered super powers are more strong than all the muslin countries (separatevely of course).
This is again, totally wrong. None of those countries you've mentioned (except perhaps Sweden and to a lesser extent Italy) or Greece are particularly strong. Sweden is perhaps the strongest of the ones you mention. Muslim countries are stronger equipment wise than some of the countries on your list (if you exclude them from NATO).
Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 14:30
Antioxos
2nd The landing in Cyprus failed the operation was successful because there was not real Greek responce
The Turkish Liberation and Peace-keeping operation in Cyprus was one of the most succesfull millitary monouvers of the last quater of a century.
If was successfull because the Greeks totally underestimated the Turks, the Turks were very organised, their intellegence and logistics were very good and the Greek forces were neutrallised before they could start a long war.
Turkey bought Peace to the island, it was very obvious that Greeks had no intentions of living together with Turks in a United Cyprus, one only has to look into EOKA, the Enosis Plan, the Akritas Plan, Black Christmas, Greek Junta invasions and so on. Turkey separated the two waring communities and ever since there has been no fighting, so it was a successfull mission.
Antixos
Guys you are convinced for everything. In Cyprus in 1974 happen an ethnic cleansing
Oh here we go again, that classic syndrome of certain Greeks on the matter ofv
Cyprus, before 1974? You do realise that the History of Cyprus doesn't begin in
1974. Why don't we go into what happened before and what led up to 1974? EOKA, the Enosis Plan, the Akritas Plan, Black Christmas, Greek Junta invasions and massacres again Turkish Cypriot villagers etc
This attitude that Turks just woke up one day and said hey Mehmet lets go into Cyprus is ridiculous and far, far from the truth.
Antioxos
do i have to remind you who else did ethnic cleansing .
Greeks in Cyprus did from the 1960's to 1974 so how can you complain.
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
Look, you sayed something wrong about korean war, and i only gave you an example of the trued. I didnt say that only this shows the strongness of Tόrkish Army. There are many examples after ww2 which shows it. Exactly what you are doing is propaganda. Cyprus showed especially a very good example of the strongness of Tόrkish Army. You trying to deny this, and also trying to deny the fact of the massacre greek army and terrors made before Tόrkish Army interfere, and saying that the conquering of Tόrkish Army in Northern Cyprus is not a peaceful operation is also propaganda. Pls be more honoust.
Mate i can sure you that i m honest i m just saying that this terminology
about "peace operation" exist only in Turkey (the other world is using different terms about Cyprus if you dint realize it is your problem) .I m also say some facts about the military operation operation in Cyprus and i mention also a Turkish author Mehmet Ali Birand to read exactly what did happen in Cyprus and you are telling that i m doing propaganda The conclusion from what i m telling is that the Turkish army is not experience and is good in papers not in real battlefield
[/QUOTE]
Your other world is also the one who occured the WTC incident itself to get a false motive on iraq, your other world says it is against terrorism, except when it comes to pkk, european countries, example holland, supported this terrororganization, your other world would have killed all the armenians in a war when the armenians are working with the enemy, choosing their side and are making incidents which caused for thousands of Tόrkish innocent people, while the The Osmanlı Empire only drove them out of the land, your other world would have protested and meltdown the greeks for what they did in Cyprus before The Cyprus War, your other world is giving a fake-self-prepared english airport incident so much attention, but your other world doesnt care about the innocent people died in Lebanon, and your other world waited until israel won the war, which didnt happen and yet after this peaceful actions(leading actor: Tόrkiye) were made. Did i made myself clear, about how your other world does work? [/QUOTE]
Mate my the other world gave the right (especially Us) to Turkey to intervent to Cyprus.Exactly the same world gave the right o Israel killed innocent people in Lebanon.Anyway all the above is out off topic.
Look, you sayed something wrong about korean war, and i only gave you an example of the trued. I didnt say that only this shows the strongness of Tόrkish Army. There are many examples after ww2 which shows it. Exactly what you are doing is propaganda. Cyprus showed especially a very good example of the strongness of Tόrkish Army. You trying to deny this, and also trying to deny the fact of the massacre greek army and terrors made before Tόrkish Army interfere, and saying that the conquering of Tόrkish Army in Northern Cyprus is not a peaceful operation is also propaganda. Pls be more honoust.
Mate i can sure you that i m honest i m just saying that this terminology
about "peace operation" exist only in Turkey (the other world is using different terms about Cyprus if you dint realize it is your problem) .I m also say some facts about the military operation operation in Cyprus and i mention also a Turkish author Mehmet Ali Birand to read exactly what did happen in Cyprus and you are telling that i m doing propaganda The conclusion from what i m telling is that the Turkish army is not experience and is good in papers not in real battlefield
Your other world is also the one who occured the WTC incident itself to get a false motive on iraq, your other world says it is against terrorism, except when it comes to pkk, european countries, example holland, supported this terrororganization, your other world would have killed all the armenians in a war when the armenians are working with the enemy, choosing their side and are making incidents which caused for thousands of Tόrkish innocent people, while the The Osmanlı Empire only drove them out of the land, your other world would have protested and meltdown the greeks for what they did in Cyprus before The Cyprus War, your other world is giving a fake-self-prepared english airport incident so much attention, but your other world doesnt care about the innocent people died in Lebanon, and your other world waited until israel won the war, which didnt happen and yet after this peaceful actions(leading actor: Tόrkiye) were made. Did i made myself clear, about how your other world does work? [/QUOTE]
Mate my the other world gave the right (especially Us) to Turkey to intervent to Cyprus.Exactly the same world gave the right o Israel killed innocent people in Lebanon.Anyway all the above is out off topic.
[/QUOTE] Mate, its clear you dont know anything about this subject. Everyone(england,usa,etc..) were on the side of greece on the Cyprus subject. They were all willing to give whole Cyprus to greeks, they never wanted Trkiye to interfere, but Trkiye did and was right to it and had all the rights to do it, and got straight result. But after this, usa, england and all western turned their back on Trkiye, no country did any business with Trkiye for a while, thats one of the reasons our economy went down. But this is all they could do, closing relationships. They couldnt attack Trkiye and that shows the power of Trkiye
Mate, its clear you dont know anything about this subject. Everyone(england,usa,etc..) were on the side of greece on the Cyprus subject. They were all willing to give whole Cyprus to greeks, they never wanted Trkiye to interfere, but Trkiye did and was right
Infact It is you who have no idea about subject. At first world is supporting Turkey. After the fall of greek junta, and second attack of Turkish army this changed. Sorry but that turkey vs world and greece is utterly ridiculus.
2nd The landing in Cyprus failed the operation was successful because there was not real Greek responce
The Turkish Liberation and Peace-keeping operation in Cyprus was one of te most succesfull millitary monouvers of the last quater of a century.
If was successfull because the Greeks totally underestimated the Turks, the Turks were very organised, their intellegence and logistics were very good and the Greek forces were neutrallised before they could start a long war.
Turkey bought Peace to the island, it was very obvious that Greeks had no intentions of living together with Turks in a United Cyprus, one only has to look into EOKA, the Enosis Plan, the Akritas Plan, Black Christmas, Greek Junta invasions and so on. Turkey separated the two waring communities and ever since there has been no fighting, so it was a successfull mission.
Antixos
Guys you are convinced for everything. In Cyprus in 1974 happen an ethnic cleansing
Oh here we go again, that classic syndrome of certain Greeks on the matter ofv
Cyprus, before 1974? You do realize that the History of Cyprus doesn't begin in
1974. Why don't we go into what happened before and what led up to 1974? EOKA, the Enosis Plan, the Akritas Plan, Black Christmas, Greek Junta invasions and massacres again Turkish Cypriot villagers etc
This attitude that Turks just woke up one day and said hey Mehmet lets go into Cyprus is ridiculous and far, far from the truth.
Antioxos
do i have to remind you who else did ethnic cleansing .
Greeks in Cyprus did from the 1960's to 1974 so how can you complain.
Well i don t think that you really know what did happen in Cyprus in 1974.If you want i can remind you my source is Mehmet Ali Birand
If you calling the most succesfull military maneuvers of the last quarter of a century that they are shooting each other without enemy you have strange evaluation of facts.
About the good organization in the landing they lost all the communications the units lost conduct between them and all these without enemy.
Turkey bought isolation to the two communities in the island and is the only iron curtain that still exist in the Europe of freedom where the people cannot move freely.
I think you have to find a new definition for the word peace does not match with this situation.
About the ethnic cleansing i always tell that the Greek state isn't so capable in cruelty compare it with the Turkish state The Turkish regime is an expert.
About the ethnic cleansing i always tell that the Greek state isn't so capable in cruelty compare it with the Turkish state The Turkish regime is an expert.
Infact she is. creete is a good example for both turkish cypriots and greek cypriots.
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