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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which is the strongest muslim country at
    Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 05:28
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by Tipu Sultan

a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight till the end.
which is lacking in turkey whereas iran has both the weapons as well the willingness so does malaysia.
 
Turkey lacks willingness to fight till the end and military character? Based on what you drew that conclusion?
 
Dont you know How freakin fanatic the turks are. Propaganda everyday, The ottoman empire, The turks have history that makes uss fighting machines,

And turkey also is in the nato think of that, Pako's attack Turkey.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 12:21
"
Dont you know How freakin fanatic the turks are. Propaganda everyday, The ottoman empire, The turks have history that makes uss fighting machines,

And turkey also is in the nato think of that, Pako's attack Turkey."

that was in the past but not anymore.turkey over the years has lost its fighting capability and is seeking desperate attempts to get into EU.

and to the mod,can u please tell me sir where i have been undignified in my discussionCry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 12:50
Originally posted by Tipu Sultan

"


that was in the past but not anymore.turkey over the years has lost its fighting capability and is seeking desperate attempts to get into EU.
 
If you just research a bit, a little bit, you will see that the attempt to get into EU has nothing to do with the military power and fighting capability of Turkey..It is just the financial situation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 13:03
a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight till the end.
which is lacking in turkey whereas iran has both the weapons as well the willingness so does malaysia.


I dont know who wrote this, you are right that a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight till the end, but I can easily say that Trks are the number one in the world with military character and willingness to fight to the end. Anyone who knows Trkish history knows this fact. Ask all the generals in the world, they would all agree even if they are haters.

Coming to the main subject, again sorry i couldnt read all posts. Trkiye is definetely the strongest Muslim country at present. I dont want to deep in weapons, nuke etc., because in this modern time every country is able to create every kind of chemical weapons. You could easily copy another countries teqnology, weapon etc., so weapons are not the first priority which desides who is the strongest in the world. Even if you have developped a great nuke, you can only use a part of it, unless you want to destroy the whole world within your own country.

Iran is also a strong Muslim country. Based on recently news people say Iran is developping great nukes. We have to know that every country has his secrets, not every country tells their chemical researches, so we normal people could not know what level each countries nuke is.
Almost 50 procent of the population of Iran are Trks. So in a war against Trkiye this will be a big problem. So Iran is definitely not stronger than Trkiye.

One thing most people also dont know that there are several Trkish Republics like Azerbaycan, NorthernTrkishCyprus, Kazakistan, Ozbekistan, Trkmenistan and Kirgizistan. And there are lots of autonomous Trkish Republics. In circumstances of war all these Republics will be one force.

The most important fact about Trks is their proud, love and bravery for their country which has no other example in the world. Most armies problems are that they couldnot force the whole population to fight for their country. If there is a war 100 procent of the Trkish population will fight, women, children included, they will all fight till the end. There is no other example of this in the world.

Finally i have to say that Trkiye is not only the strongest Muslim country but also one of the strongest in the world. The only weakness of Trkiye is that they dont have trustable allies, which most countries all have. Economy and outside politics which are positive in the present are also a big factors. Why do you think Trkiye still isnt in the European Union, they are afraid us, that we will improve the factors i just wrote.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 13:22
Originally posted by maqsad

Anyone have a count of how many total missiles are in the arsenals of Turkey, Iran and Pakistan currently and what their ranges are? I saw some random video on utube of some Irani general bragging that they make a few dozen missiles every day almost now. Is this true? What is the current deployable stock of all missiles in these countries?
 
Missiles are pretty important, but so are missile defences. Turkey relies too much on USA, so it sort of ties their hands. But longest range missiles from what I know would be the Pakistani Shaheen 2 and Ghauri 3, Iranian Shahab-3. These are probably developments on the Nodong, but range wise they're the longest of the 3 countries. Most important ones are cruise missiles and Pakistan has them and can produce them. 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 13:23
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Errr...

I didn't even know this could be discussed. Let alone for 10 pages. Please people, there is only one muslim nation that can deply half a million men when needed, backed by long range nuclear warheads. Pakistan of course, when another country gets nuclear weapons, then and only then can you begin to discuss this.
 
True. Saying nukes don't matter is not too bright Confused Pakistan, the strongest Muslim nation? Most definitely..


Edited by TeldeInduz - 01-Oct-2006 at 13:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 13:29
the thing about pakistan and turkey is that they cannot exercise an independent foreign policy like iran and hamas of palestine(which is the weakest muslim nation in terms of weapons but their moral and military character and willingness to fight till the end is very high so that greatly adds to their strength)lebanon has a secret weapon-that is hizbulloah guerrillas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 14:03
AFAIK, the Lebanese government would actually love to get rid of Hezbollah, but simply doesn't have the manpower, or the support base to do so.  Hezbollah has constantly provoked Israel, and I'm trying not to place the blame totally on Hezbollah, but its terrorism has severely handicapped Lebanon's economy by thwarting the country's potential as a tourist's haven.  Lebanon right now is one of the hot spots of the Middle East, as well as Israel and Egypt - I think it would surpass Israel if it simply wasn't sorrounded by terrorism and war.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 14:39
Originally posted by Tipu Sultan

mustafa kamal ataturk has made turks from brave people to cowards.i saw recently a documentary where a turkish government offical was pleading to get entry into the european union whereas palestine(which is in all debts) or iran(which is under great pressure)always talk tough and stand tough.


What are you talking about? Mustafa Kemal Atatrk is our hero, how could a hero turn his people into cowards, pls dont talk nonsense. for me Mustafa Kemal Atatrk is everything of our country, i love and respect him with all my heart, people like him make me love my country more and more. Ok im not a great fan of the former goverment, they are making mistakes i dont like at all, but this has nothing to do with toughness, our government is busy with a economic war. Thoughness has to do with Generals. Trkiye did have an has always a tough Millitary in front of the Government in case the Government is going the wrong way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 15:27
Correct me if i am wrong; I believe Saudi and Egypt have the strongest conventional forces among Muslim nations.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 16:41
Correct me if i am wrong; I believe Saudi and Egypt have the strongest conventional forces among Muslim nations.
 
Saudis have biggest military arsenal, but I think they should learn how to fight.
 
Turkey and iran is almost same, military population and economy.
 
That fighting capacity is absurd. Turks are not better fighters than iranians or other people. It is related with motivation. (Reason for war)
 
Morale is not a default setting for Turks.
 
Also entering EU has two reason, economy and Turkish internal politics(Infact at first It was kemalist who want to enter EU, not It is islamist).
 
It has zero relation with military.
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 17:25
 As independent nations I would say Iran is the strongest muslim nation militarily.  As for motivation, in today's political climate, generals could give their soldiers plenty of motivation.
 
Turkey I would give a close second.  On its own Turkey probably couldn't take Iran.  HOWEVER, since Turkey is a member of NATO, if they got attacked, they would have support from the West.  In a conflict this would significantly tip the balance in favour of them.
 
Hard to tell between the two.
 
I have read people complaining about Pakistan being so low a nation.  I'm not an expert in their military but these are my thoughts.  Their is a very very substantial difference between possessing nukes and using them in war.  Also I have noticed many Pakistani's refer to China as their great ally.  I'm sorry to tell you this but China only has interest in you becuase both of you don't like India.  And China isn't going to fight India unless they are absolutely sure the West won't intervene.  So don't count on China saving your butts in a war.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 19:30
Tipu_Sultan
mustafa kamal ataturk has made turks from brave people to cowards.i saw recently a documentary where a turkish government offical was pleading to get entry into the european union whereas palestine(which is in all debts) or iran(which is under great pressure)always talk tough and stand tough.
 
Confused
Its such an unlogical argument, Turkey didn't start EU negotiations with AtaTurk, he was a resistance and liberation fighter, he didn't just talk and stand tough he ACTED tough and actions are much louder than words. He didn't bow to the French, Brittish, Russians, Armenians, Greeks who attacked at once, instead he thought them all, won at Galipoli and Sakarya, fought in 7 Wars helped motivate and lead a nation to independance 
and victory.
 
This should make him respected according to your logic as you proclaim to regarding
those who don't bow to others highly, yet you call someone who defeinately
was no coward guilty of making a nation cowards.
 
In adittion what has getting into EU got to do with the millitary or strength, its
financially based.
 
the thing about pakistan and turkey is that they cannot exercise an independent foreign policy like iran and hamas of palestine
 
Oh and we heard Saddam braggin that he would crush any invasion attempts but
what happened. Anybody can talk big not everyone can back it up.
 
Pakistan and Turkey have no reason to start ranting and raving and saying it
can do this and that, it uses "diplomacy" instead.
 
Turkey and Pakistan have the most powerfull armies and their armies don't brag about
this, you should know that in a fight you watch out for the silent one they
are most deadly and seriousWink
 
Iran is powerfull aswell, infact very powerfull, self-reliant and not letting itself be pushed around, if it manages to
build its Nuke this will be its best diplomacy.
 
I mean look at all the talk about Iran while N.Korea actually has Nukes and threatens
to use them. That shuts everyone up. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 21:44
"
Oh and we heard Saddam braggin that he would crush any invasion attempts but
what happened. Anybody can talk big not everyone can back it up.
 "
saddam was a dictator who lacked the populat support of his people.

and mustafa kamal ataturk a great general-many doubt it
here i have two links to back my claim,have a look

http://www.beautifulislam.net/articles/kamal_ataturk.htm

http://islamicsydney.com/story.php?id=557

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 02:54
Originally posted by omergun

a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it
possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight
till the end. which is lacking in turkey whereas iran has both the weapons as well the willingness so does malaysia.
I dont know who wrote this, you are right that a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it
possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight
till the end, but I can easily say that Trks are the number one in the world with military character and willingness to fight to the end. Anyone who knows Trkish history knows this fact. Ask all the generals in the world, they would all agree even if they are haters. Coming to the main subject, again sorry i couldnt read all posts. Trkiye is definetely the strongest Muslim country at present. I dont want to deep in weapons, nuke etc., because in this modern time every country is able to create every kind of chemical weapons. You could easily copy another countries teqnology, weapon etc., so weapons are not the first priority which desides who is the strongest in the world. Even if you have developped a great nuke, you can only use a part of it, unless you want to destroy the whole world within your own country. Iran is also a strong Muslim country. Based on recently news people say Iran is developping great nukes. We have to know that every country has his secrets, not every country tells their chemical researches, so we normal people could not know what level each countries nuke is. Almost 50 procent of the population of Iran are Trks. So in a war against Trkiye this will be a big problem. So Iran is definitely not stronger than Trkiye. One thing most people also dont know that there are several Trkish Republics like Azerbaycan, NorthernTrkishCyprus, Kazakistan, Ozbekistan, Trkmenistan and Kirgizistan. And there are lots of autonomous Trkish Republics. In circumstances of war all these Republics will be one force.The most important fact about Trks is their proud, love and bravery for their country which has no other example in the world. Most armies problems are that they couldnot force the whole population to fight for their country. If there is a war 100 procent of the Trkish population will fight, women, children included, they will all fight till the end. There is no other example of this in the world.Finally i have to say that Trkiye is not only the strongest Muslim country but also one of the strongest in the world. The only weakness of Trkiye is that they dont have trustable allies, which most countries all have. Economy and outside politics which are positive in the present are also a big factors. Why do you think Trkiye still isnt in the European Union, they are afraid us, that we will improve the factors i just wrote.


I don't want to interfere to this thread of Turkish exaggerations. Turkey has a strong weaponry and a big amy. Big army oesn't proove that the country is strong.
example 1) Iraq vs USA Iraq 1000000 troops USA 100000.
example 2) Egypt vs Israel. Israel 3500000 population Egypt 50000000 population. So this "story" must ends. As far as Turkey is one of the songest country in the world is a lie. You are just reapeting what your generals say to you and the politicians. The true is that your rank is not upon the strongest countries. yOY don't have the military(ground, air naval) to be there. In the past you have made some vicories. BUt nothing else. Every nation has victories in the battle field. You could not be one of the strongests when you sill have choppers like super cobra. Anyway your economy is not srong in order to be able to last for a long term war And as far as the willingness of death and fight... it is a joke?
The modern people are not fighting for nothing You think that if you envade somewhere (Greece, Syria, Bulgaria etc) for imperialistic war you will gain something? Turkish army is foul of Kurdish people. It has the the biggest statistics of self injured soldiers in order not to go to eastern Turkey fight the Kurds But i guess nobody tells you that.
I said that Turkey has one of the strongest army in the region along with Greece. Maybe stronger than Greece. Lets hope we never have to find out. Egypt and Saudis are stonger. Has better air force, and Egypt has elite ground forces. They spend many millions dollars for byuing new weapons.
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 07:14
Perikles
I don't want to interfere to this thread of Turkish exaggerations. Turkey has a strong weaponry and a big amy. Big army oesn't proove that the country is strong.
example 1) Iraq vs USA Iraq 1000000 troops USA 100000.
example 2) Egypt vs Israel. Israel 3500000 population Egypt 50000000 population. So this "story" must ends.


Big army may not mean alot but big and very well trained army sure does.

Turkish millitary is one of the best trained, most disciplined and organised forces in the world. Most high ranked army officials from all parts of the world acknowledge this. Many countries send their elite troops to be trained by the Turkish millitary, do you think there doing it for fun.    

Turkish army is foul of Kurdish people.

Is this meant to be some sort of disadvantage, oh and were do you get your statistics from


to go to eastern Turkey fight the Kurds

Turkey is not fighting "Kurds" who are her own citizens but instead Extremist Marxist Terrorists who apparently claim their fighting for Kurds even though their leader doesn't even speak the language.

Fighting against Terrorists in impassable mountainess terrain is the toughest millitary excersise which can be taken. Hardly anybody has been able to defeat such a force, fight them on their own terrain and remain in the area.

Turkey has been fighting against a Terrorist force which has been supported and trained by most of its neighbours at some point or another, Soviets, Greeks, Syrians and so on. Fighting a terrorist force in these conditions is ridiculously hard but Turkey manages, making its army very well trained and powerfull.


Egypt and Saudis are stonger. Has better air force, and Egypt has elite ground forces. They spend many millions dollars for byuing new weapons.


Am I actually reading this.

Saudi doesn't have its own pilots to fly its own planes, it hires them. Egypt isn't focusing on being a millitary power as yet after the Israel war.

You can spend all the millions of dollars you like, if you don't have the millitary institutions, organisation, discipline and Generals from your own country it means nothing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 08:19
You always ask for prooves and statistics but you never provide one.
So in Turkey there are aprox 30.000.000 Kurds and of course they doing their military service. So i was right when i said that the turkish army is foul of Kurds. The disadvantage of that is that when the Kurds living in Turkey start to want reunion with the KUrdish independent Kurdistan in Iraq how you think they react?

Secondly please provide proofs that the Kurdish are beeing trained by the Greeks. And if they are that the powerfull turkish army can't beat a branch of rebels, imagine the result with their trainers(Greeks). If that is true it doesn't looks to me the turkish amy so powerfull.

Switcherland doesn't have own soldiers but mersinaries. Still has very strong army. So that doesn't mean anything.

Even if Saudis have mersinaries then you are in contradiction. Because if i recall someone from the forum(turk in origin) told me that the Saudis have weak army because they can't fight. So decide what you want.
    

Edited by perikles - 02-Oct-2006 at 08:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 08:57
Originally posted by perikles

Originally posted by omergun

a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it
possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight
till the end. which is lacking in turkey whereas iran has both the weapons as well the willingness so does malaysia.
I dont know who wrote this, you are right that a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it
possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight
till the end, but I can easily say that Trks are the number one in the world with military character and willingness to fight to the end. Anyone who knows Trkish history knows this fact. Ask all the generals in the world, they would all agree even if they are haters. Coming to the main subject, again sorry i couldnt read all posts. Trkiye is definetely the strongest Muslim country at present. I dont want to deep in weapons, nuke etc., because in this modern time every country is able to create every kind of chemical weapons. You could easily copy another countries teqnology, weapon etc., so weapons are not the first priority which desides who is the strongest in the world. Even if you have developped a great nuke, you can only use a part of it, unless you want to destroy the whole world within your own country. Iran is also a strong Muslim country. Based on recently news people say Iran is developping great nukes. We have to know that every country has his secrets, not every country tells their chemical researches, so we normal people could not know what level each countries nuke is. Almost 50 procent of the population of Iran are Trks. So in a war against Trkiye this will be a big problem. So Iran is definitely not stronger than Trkiye. One thing most people also dont know that there are several Trkish Republics like Azerbaycan, NorthernTrkishCyprus, Kazakistan, Ozbekistan, Trkmenistan and Kirgizistan. And there are lots of autonomous Trkish Republics. In circumstances of war all these Republics will be one force.The most important fact about Trks is their proud, love and bravery for their country which has no other example in the world. Most armies problems are that they couldnot force the whole population to fight for their country. If there is a war 100 procent of the Trkish population will fight, women, children included, they will all fight till the end. There is no other example of this in the world.Finally i have to say that Trkiye is not only the strongest Muslim country but also one of the strongest in the world. The only weakness of Trkiye is that they dont have trustable allies, which most countries all have. Economy and outside politics which are positive in the present are also a big factors. Why do you think Trkiye still isnt in the European Union, they are afraid us, that we will improve the factors i just wrote.


I don't want to interfere to this thread of Turkish exaggerations. Turkey has a strong weaponry and a big amy. Big army oesn't proove that the country is strong.
example 1) Iraq vs USA Iraq 1000000 troops USA 100000.
example 2) Egypt vs Israel. Israel 3500000 population Egypt 50000000 population. So this "story" must ends. As far as Turkey is one of the songest country in the world is a lie. You are just reapeting what your generals say to you and the politicians. The true is that your rank is not upon the strongest countries. yOY don't have the military(ground, air naval) to be there. In the past you have made some vicories. BUt nothing else. Every nation has victories in the battle field. You could not be one of the strongests when you sill have choppers like super cobra. Anyway your economy is not srong in order to be able to last for a long term war And as far as the willingness of death and fight... it is a joke?
The modern people are not fighting for nothing You think that if you envade somewhere (Greece, Syria, Bulgaria etc) for imperialistic war you will gain something? Turkish army is foul of Kurdish people. It has the the biggest statistics of self injured soldiers in order not to go to eastern Turkey fight the Kurds But i guess nobody tells you that.
I said that Turkey has one of the strongest army in the region along with Greece. Maybe stronger than Greece. Lets hope we never have to find out. Egypt and Saudis are stonger. Has better air force, and Egypt has elite ground forces. They spend many millions dollars for byuing new weapons.
    


First of all if you dont want to interfere, dont. Big army doesnt proove that the country is strong, did you realy read my post, or is this just one of your hater posts? Trkiye is one of the strongest countries in the world, if you dont know a thing about our army, dont talk. I can say you easily that Trkiye has all kind of tecnology of millitary, ground, air,sea... I can see you are a Greek. as a Greek you should be the first one to know what Trkish people are capable of, and i do think you know that there is no other example of the willingness of death and bravery like the Trks does.
How do you know that Trkish army is full of Kurds? It has the biggest statistics, please dont let me laugh, ok? A few weeks ago i saw on a hater-Dutch channel an intervieuw with a Kurd, who was complaining about why the Trkish army still doesnt accept Kurds in the millitary. First of all i dont know thats true, secondly there are no problems between Trks and Kurds, we dont blame them all for what the little terror-pkk is doing. The reason why Trkiye still doesnt attack the pkk base in north irak, is that they still dont want to make a big deal of it, thats what they want. I dont find this strategie good, but the newest General Yasar Buyukanit, has other strategies than these.
What do you know about our air force, actually, please leave your pre-judgements. Trkiye is an honoust country, which has the greatest history with relationships with other countries. We believe in justice, we dont attack there and there for no reason, even with all the byzans acts of the western countries against us!!!


Edited by omergun - 02-Oct-2006 at 08:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 12:10
well i am going to start a new thread to decide which is the strongest military in the whole world
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 12:59
Originally posted by Tipu Sultan

well i am going to start a new thread to decide which is the strongest military in the whole world
 
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