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pekau
Caliph
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Topic: spartan or samurai Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 00:45 |
Originally posted by Zaitsev
Which is an awesome right don't you think? |
Sure... what would be awesome?
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white knight
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Posted: 07-May-2007 at 09:16 |
Well, my view on the spartan vs samurai is this:
skills: bushido of samurai vs pankration of spartans: draw, equally skilled
brains: sun zu brain vs alexander's brain, for their generals: draw or indecisive
protection:lamellar armor for the samurai vs mycenaean armor and aspis, : spartan wins
weapons: katana, naginata, vs Makhaira,xiphos, javelin, a macedonian long spear(maybe): samurai wins for superior steel.
in the battlefield: human wave for the samurai vs spartan phalanx, spartan tag team: spartan wins
calvary: samurai horse archers vs greek calvary: samurai wins
total: draw.
Edited by white knight - 07-Apr-2008 at 08:56
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olvios
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Posted: 07-May-2007 at 10:14 |
I like both. planet earth s warrior archetypes!
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zeno
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Posted: 07-May-2007 at 11:44 |
basically which do you like more...
i prefer the samurai because of the skilled moves
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olvios
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Posted: 07-May-2007 at 12:45 |
Samurai for me is a cooler lone wolf type warrior with more all around weapons and uses. Spartan is group-based so i d go with samurai in this one.
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Romantic Envy
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Posted: 13-May-2007 at 11:04 |
The first thing that comes to mind is that fighting to the death is just suicide by another's hands...
Meh, it's hard for me to choose really.
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"History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again." ~ Maya Angelou
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pekau
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Posted: 13-May-2007 at 21:51 |
Originally posted by olvios
Samurai for me is a cooler lone wolf type warrior with more all around weapons and uses. Spartan is group-based so i d go with samurai in this one.
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If we are talking about weapons, then samurai have unfair advantage since samurai warriors endured due to its geographical isolation from other civilizations while Spartans had to endure the foreign threats, such as Persians, Romans, Turks, etc... I think Spartans elite warriors died off by the end of the bronze age.
It's like saying SEAL soldiers are more honorable and efficient compared to soldiers in gundpowder age.
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olvios
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Posted: 14-May-2007 at 04:09 |
Yeah i just use to like the lone warrior going on duels when i read mushashi ,spartans are different and i see them as an elite group but the samurai image for me is an elite individual. .tamble();
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Guests
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Posted: 14-May-2007 at 04:38 |
They don't compare. Each would be disadvantaged in the other's environment. The Samurai were trained to be individually formidable and specialized in one-on-one and small unit combat. The Spartans were trained to each be an integral part of a very efficient killing machine. Their individual maneuvers were coordinated with the warrior next to them, behind them and in front of them. As a unit, arrows had little effect as their shields were designed to be held overhead and lock together to form an essentially impenetrable barrier. Like the samurai they were professional soldiers, their lives dedicated to war from childhood to death. They trained daily, lifelong. they also studied campaign strategy and small unit tactics. I'm speaking specifically of the Spartans, not all Greeks (Hellenes). Thermopolae was no accident. Such a dedicated professional army wasn't seen again until Philip of Macedon paid his soldiers to be full time soldiers, not farmers/raiders.
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Batu
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Posted: 16-May-2007 at 15:52 |
Hey Pekau,I am not sure Spartans fought with Turks.You wouldnt admire Spartans If they have fought Turks. Its the same for the SEALs.maybe I should open a poll about Jannisary vs SEALS,which is the best special forces.
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pekau
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Posted: 16-May-2007 at 18:29 |
Originally posted by Batu
Hey Pekau,I am not sure Spartans fought with Turks.You wouldnt admire Spartans If they have fought Turks. Its the same for the SEALs.maybe I should open a poll about Jannisary vs SEALS,which is the best special forces. |
Well, not when Sparta was at the height of military power.... but Greeks in general (Which includes Spartans) fought against the overwhelming Ottoman Turks. Ottoman Empire did invade Balkan regions.
As well, the Persians brought a lot of Turks when they invaded Greece twice.
Spartans vs. Jannisary is like Jannisary vs. SEALS? Seriously? I don't know how determined the Turks fight, but no matter how skilled you are... fighting against a semi-machinegun against a classical gunpowder weapon doesn't sound like a fair match to me. It's like one with a primitive club fighting against a heavily armored crusader.
I have to think about Spartans vs. Jannisary situation. It's kind of hard to compare since the two warriors are from entirely different age... but I think Spartans may have been more determined in general... what kind of training do Jannisaries get?
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pekau
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Posted: 16-May-2007 at 18:34 |
Originally posted by iazygys
They don't compare. Each would be disadvantaged in the other's environment. The Samurai were trained to be individually formidable and specialized in one-on-one and small unit combat. The Spartans were trained to each be an integral part of a very efficient killing machine. Their individual maneuvers were coordinated with the warrior next to them, behind them and in front of them. As a unit, arrows had little effect as their shields were designed to be held overhead and lock together to form an essentially impenetrable barrier. Like the samurai they were professional soldiers, their lives dedicated to war from childhood to death. They trained daily, lifelong. they also studied campaign strategy and small unit tactics. I'm speaking specifically of the Spartans, not all Greeks (Hellenes). Thermopolae was no accident. Such a dedicated professional army wasn't seen again until Philip of Macedon paid his soldiers to be full time soldiers, not farmers/raiders. |
In general, samurai warriors prefer individual combats... but not all the case. Especially in Imjin War, many samurai warriors had to fight as a single army due to their desparate fight against the Koreans and Chinese forces...
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Justinian
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Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 17:34 |
Perhaps this has been addressed but, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the spartans cease to exist around 1500 years before the rise of the samurai?
In regards to attitute I would prefer the spartan to the samurai. It seems more honorable to me to fight till the last man taking as many men as you can versus killing yourself and denying that honor to the enemy. Its interesting how the samurai were rather similar in this regard to the romans. You lose a battle in the civil war and commit suicide versus being captured... interesting.
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"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
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pekau
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Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 14:33 |
Originally posted by Justinian
In regards to attitute I would prefer the spartan to the samurai. It seems more honorable to me to fight till the last man taking as many men as you can versus killing yourself and denying that honor to the enemy. Its interesting how the samurai were rather similar in this regard to the romans. You lose a battle in the civil war and commit suicide versus being captured... interesting. |
We all have different ideas and beliefs regarding the word, honor.
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Ulrich Wolff
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Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 18:28 |
"Samurai were honorable soldiers, but it should be noted that they are
still men. the only
difference Many were corrupted or dishonored, especially as Japan began
to modernized. No longer were samurai changed the tide of war, the
machineguns did. Their debt was piling, and eventually... between samurai and commoners is the fact that samurai still
had the right to carry swords."
Actually... The samurai's right to carry a weapon was taken away in the 1800's due to a samurai rebellion against their emperor for alienating the Japanese culture. I'm not certain when this law was revoked, but I know it was. Corruption is unavoidable, but don't forget there are good people out there. Read the story of the 47 Ronin.
Edit : I forgot! To this day special agents in japan continue to practice ancient bushido for exercise, and psychological elements of the training. So, you could say that samurai are still used today, but differently.
As for the poll. I'd have to say both have their reasons, and are equal practices, which have probably been used by both sides.
And for the samurai vs. spartan argument. The samurai would cut them down with arrows, ride into their backs, and cut them down. The samurai would easily maneuver around their bronze shields and dispatch a spartan in one strike. I know because I practice kendo "Way of the sword." Kendo teaches a warrior to not use strength, or skill, but intelligence, control your enemy's emotions and you control his movements.
Edited by Ulrich Wolff - 26-Sep-2007 at 19:02
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Crystall
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Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 18:49 |
Well you guys give the samuri an unfair advantage. He gets a HORSE, not to mention both bow/arrow and sword.
Take away the horse and the bow.. then we should talk about who wins.
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Ulrich Wolff
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Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 18:59 |
Samurai would. The spartan phalanx is not flexible, and as close combat fighters they are lacking compared to samurai.
Some one said "Spartans have steel armor therefor better then samurai wood armor" The Spartans didn't even know how to create steel. They used a cloth armor made out of layers of reinforced linen.
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Knights
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Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 21:26 |
Yes Ulrich, you are right that the Spartans did not have or even know how to create steel armour. However, it is a complete understatement to say they only used cloth/linen armour. They had bronze cuirasses, leg greaves, helmets.etc. Does anyone know if they used iron at any stage?
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rider
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Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 21:42 |
If the question was not flawed from the beginning, perhaps the result could be better.
In my sense, there is nothing that can match a samurai, horse or not. You should also remember that while a spartan practiced with a spear and a sword, a samurai used tens of types of swords, bows, spears and pikes...
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SuN.
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Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 08:35 |
A fact which nobody seems to have noticed is that while a spartan was trained as a very professional soldier, a samurai was trained both as a priest (meditator, spiritual pursuits) & a warrier. he was more knowledgeble, had a different level of mental strenth & training.
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