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Why Europe?

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Murph View Drop Down
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  Quote Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Europe?
    Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 19:37
i'm taking a world history (1500-WWII) course in high school. up to now, we've only covered the 1500s and 1600s, which leads to my question (which will probably be on my final exam, by the way)...WHY EUROPE??? when learning about the great asian empires, one has to wonder, how did europe come to dominate the entire world. luck, mindsets, adaptations...how?
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 20:05

People forgewt that China not Britain or France was still the most powerful country in the world in 1800. It was the Industrial Revolution that occured that fired Britain and eventually the rest of Europe to power. So you could restate the question as what were the origins of the Industrial Revolution.

http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http% 3A%2F%2Fencarta.msn.com%2Fencyclopedia_761577952%2FIndustria l_Revolution.html

Light blue touch paper and stand well back

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http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 23:16

Originally posted by Murph

i'm taking a world history (1500-WWII) course in high school. up to now, we've only covered the 1500s and 1600s, which leads to my question (which will probably be on my final exam, by the way)...WHY EUROPE??? when learning about the great asian empires, one has to wonder, how did europe come to dominate the entire world. luck, mindsets, adaptations...how?

 

I have come up with 50 billion explanations or attempts to explain this strange recent wesxtern domination.  The best answer I have that is also the shortest is just chance, history is not over yet, and I have a feeling the way things are going now that far in the future these past 500 years are just going to be seen as a small interupution in Asias dominance.

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote io999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2004 at 17:42
Originally posted by Paul

People forgewt that China not Britain or France was still the most powerful country in the world in 1800. It was the Industrial Revolution that occured that fired Britain and eventually the rest of Europe to power. So you could restate the question as what were the origins of the Industrial Revolution.



I would restate the question as what were the origins of the Renaissance!
I don't have the answer, but I'd like to find it out.

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  Quote Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2004 at 20:44
Originally posted by io999

Originally posted by Paul

People forgewt that China not Britain or France was still the most powerful country in the world in 1800. It was the Industrial Revolution that occured that fired Britain and eventually the rest of Europe to power. So you could restate the question as what were the origins of the Industrial Revolution.



I would restate the question as what were the origins of the Renaissance!
I don't have the answer, but I'd like to find it out.

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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 14:43

In the end of Medieval ages,Europe was so poor against the Muslims;Constantinople was captured,North Africa,Meditterenean and Middle East(Sacred Lands) were at the hands of Muslims.

Christians must have found a new way.They found;Renaissance,Reform,discoveries of America,India and South Africa made them wealthier and wealthier.

At that moment,Islamic world didn't know anything about these,they had to struggle against rebellations in their lands.

 

These are the best-known things,there are really 50 billion reasons for Europe's dominance.

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  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 04:46

This is just a review of an interesting book by S. Hawking, a comparate biography of great scientists of the past:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/281/1

Yet I think it presents some interesing insight:

 

What all these men have in common is that they successfully challenged the dominant view of their day of the way the world around them was structured. They were all European, although Einstein spent the last part of his life in America as a refugee from Nazi Germany. Aside from Einstein, they all lived in what modern historians refer to as Early Modern Europe, which used to be known as the Renaissance and Reformation. What was it about this period that sparked the spirit of inquiry and scrabbling curiosity that lead to the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution and, eventually, to our own Age of Information?

One possibility is that, beginning in the 15th century, European education was more and more influenced by the classical texts of Greece and Rome, and by the ideas that came West after fall of Constantinople to the Islamic Turkish Empire in 1453. Nicolaus Copernicus, born in 1473, was a beneficiary of the flow of intellectual activity which that event helped to put in motion. This was the time of Lenoardo da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Machiavelli, and Christopher Columbus. The bubbling intellectual and artistic creativity of the age must have reached into Poland, on the edge of Western Europe.

Yet, in spite of these obstacles, the hunt for knowledge and truth continued, and continues, to this day. This says something about our civilization. It is the Wests willingness to destabilize the very basis of its own worldview. Its habit of constantly holding itself, and its beliefs, up to critical examination, seems an important factor in its success.

So, Western civilization develops itself on the basis of a few nagging doubts, messy compromises, and the occasional individual of courage and genius, willing to challenge the established wisdom of the moment.

Great civilizations like Arabians, Chinese, etc. eventually ended thinking they were the best, perfect as they were, and practically stopped their own evolutions.

In the West someone tried to impose a similar view (the Church(es), the academic estabilishment, etc.), but eventually someone revolted against the conservative and "shaked the bottle" well enough.

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  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 13:22
It was the European brains over the Islamic power.
Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 14:50

It was the European brains over the Islamic power.

Please.  Islamic people invented algebra, if you look up in your history book 

i'm taking a world history (1500-WWII) course in high school. up to now, we've only covered the 1500s and 1600s, which leads to my question (which will probably be on my final exam, by the way)...WHY EUROPE??? when learning about the great asian empires, one has to wonder, how did europe come to dominate the entire world. luck, mindsets, adaptations...how?

Remember the modern history concept, like having a "dark", "middle", "renaissance"?  Those terms were not the official terms at that time; modern historians coined the term.  And guess what- they were Europeans.  And guess what- Asians and Africans and everyone else adopted their customs, and so don't complain.

Grrr..
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  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 19:51

I've heard the Greeks invented basic algebra actually.

Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 21:24
Greeks and Indians laid the ground work, middle easteners using that groundwork finished it off making it what it is now.
Like most things in life, it was a colaberative effort, albeit a discontinious one.


Edited by Cywr
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 14:06

Prior to the 15th century Europe was not a major power in the world. In fact they were generally more backward than asia and the middle east. The crusades did manage to enlighten them somewhat by providing knowledge in mathematics taken from the arabs that helped them in navigation and construction. What Europe did have was a love of violence and war coupled with a strong conviction that their religion was the only one and all others were beneath them to the point that followers of these religions did not deserve to live.

With the discovery of the new world and Africa Europe was able to create enough wealth that even the more civilized areas of the world were not able to stop them. The idea of putting most of your resources into perfecting the art of war was not something that most other nations considered and this made it impossible for them to stop the destructive force that Europe presented. In addition the total disregard for the peoples in these nations and the willingness to rape the natural resources of these areas with no regard for local culture helped.

The US used a similar blueprint in the 19th century with its treatment of the native indians in the west.

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 09:00

Originally posted by Dimm

Prior to the 15th century Europe was not a major power in the world.

Well, I guess you're forgetting the Roman Empire and the Hellenistic Period. Especially the Romans. They were one of the greatest of all time!

An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 12:38
The question was regarding the 1500's and 1600's and Europes domination after that. The Roman and Greek periods were strong but were far before that and Europe had been in decline for over a thousand years prior to the period in question.
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  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 13:05
Originally posted by demon

It was the European brains over the Islamic power.

Please.  Islamic people invented algebra, if you look up in your history book 

hrm, no i don't think so. This is why during the age of exploration, Portugal, Spain, and Netherlands sailed around the Middle East, and eventually surpassing them in wealth and knowledge, while the Muslims in the middle east were just sitting back, loosing power. Why did they not try to expand, and/or stop the Spanish/Portugese/Dutch? Thats because they had the Caravan ships, a far better ship than the Muslims had. And there guns helped a little.

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 18:34

those advanced european ships were total crap compared to what the Chinese had at the time, and people like Columbus were using Indian math, Chinese rudders, and also gunpoweder from Asia.

The west was so succesful for the reasons Zheng He sisnt want to voyage there, he said all they had to offer the world was wine and sheep, and he was right, so the west had to expand to take part in the global economy, they were playing catch up and they ended eventually surpassing the competition.

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  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 03:32

One word: Imperialism. And it's derivatives: Colonialism, exploitation, expansion.

Europe, from the times of the Greeks and the Romans, was trying to dominate the rest of the world. China was happy to stay put as a Chinese "whole". Islam reached it's borders at one point and didn't have the incentive to move on (they controlled the wealthier parts of the world at that time anyway, why bother with more?).

But the "western" man carried on moving out. And that's why that man rules the world. And the west fueled its dominance with the wealth of the whole world.

There has never been an "Asian dominance" as some like to put it. Asia never dominated anything outside Asia, except in the expansion of Islam. China was the most powerful state all around in a large part of history, but never bothered with anything outside it's borders.

 

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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 04:54
Originally posted by Romano Nero

Europe, from the times of the Greeks and the Romans, was trying to dominate the rest of the world.

Yeah right, like if the slavs, scandiavians, germans, finns, celts and other european ethnies tried to dominate the world before the modern era? Greece and Rome didn't represent an entire continent

There has never been an "Asian dominance" as some like to put it. Asia never dominated anything outside Asia, except in the expansion of Islam. China was the most powerful state all around in a large part of history, but never bothered with anything outside it's borders.

No? So what about the mongols then? The Chinese in turn have shown examples of imperialism, like during the Tang dynasty when they rules an empire all the way to Transoxiania

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 05:54

Please, Europe has always been the center of the world for ages. China, the Mongols and the Arabs were powerful but nothing that has ever surpassed the western domination (for instance, the New World - the Americas - it's only an expansion of europe and its culure and religions).

And furthermore, Europe was home to some of the world's finest civilizations and empires (Greeks, Romans, Vikings, Byzantine, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, Venetian, Genoese, French, English, Germans, etc., even the Arabs, the Russians and the Ottoman Turks were part of it!) and a feud for Renaissance, technology and arts. The Europe's (western's) standards are felt all around the world, for better and for worse. Any denial of this is just pure academic exercise.

An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 09:17

 

Everything has its reasons 

the main thing is that many ( i wont say everybody) i will say many been on the top of the world by power

some took 100s of years some took less

the east had it time before and these years are the western time

history repeats it self

i dont think Europe or the US will keep dominating the world as much as they did in the past

it will be the east soon  again in controle

china is already getting up ( watch out )

the middel east is getting  a new generation of well educated poeple and western Universities are giving them the jump (35 world wide Universities are being built in Dubai it self)  Dubai population is about 1 million.

in the Emirates we have already 15 working Universities.

India already have the largest Computer engineers.

Education is very very important for future power and developments

life standered in some middel eastern countries are getting as it is in Europe and the US ( may be better )

nothing stays the same 

it happened 500 years ago and it will happen soon but we will exchange places this time

 

 

 

 



Edited by azimuth
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