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white knight
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Topic: who is the better assassin? Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 01:25 |
Ninja is a great assassin in medieval japan. hashashin is a great assassin the middle east. Who is more skilled in the art of stealth and assassination. Who was the more successful in getting the targets?
Edited by white knight - 26-Apr-2008 at 11:17
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BigL
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 01:34 |
Good Question, im not sure how sneaky the Hashashin were but extremely brave as they were drugged up on hash.
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Batu
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 12:09 |
ninja may fight better but hashashin is smarter and more dangerous.
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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hulkster225
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 12:37 |
What kind of question is that? Its impossible to compare the two on a general level. It would have to come down to a comparison on an individual basis.
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rider
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 12:46 |
A woman is the best assassin, I can assure that... a beautiful woman, I mean.
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Batu
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 13:27 |
yes very true.a great and dreadful warrior, Attila beat the glorius Roman empire many times but in the end he was assasinated by a woman :)
Edited by Batu - 12-Sep-2006 at 16:41
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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BigL
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 19:44 |
What is this nonsense the ninjas are seriously underatted by you guys!.
They could change there hearbeat to the person there trying to kill.One time a ninja sneaked past 1000 gaurds in his castle to kill the king!
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 22:45 |
is this something to do with military.
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Komnenos
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 02:34 |
Originally posted by BigL
Good Question, im not sure how sneaky the Hashashin were but extremely brave as they were drugged up on hash. |
The rumour that the "assassins" were forcibly drugged up is mainly based on propaganda of their enemies and on Marco Polo's account of his visit in one of the sects stronholds. As Marco Polo is not the best source when it comes to historical accuracy, it's pretty safe to regard the use of cannabis as myth. To conduct this sort of clandestine, undercover operation, the assassins got famous for, one needs a clear head anyway, and being stoned would seriously endanger its success. Just imagine a grinning and giggling Muslim warrior with a craving for chocolate sneaking into the Abbassid court, telling everyone to relax and be cool.
In any case, assassinations only were a very small part of the activities of this Ismaili sect.
Even the etymology of the word "assassins" is disputed. It more likely is derived from the name of its founder Hassan- Ibn- al -Shabah.
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BigL
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 03:34 |
I dont know if youve ever smoked Cannabis but its alot different from the effects of smoking Hashish..
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Dampier
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 10:08 |
Depends, can the Hassassins be represented by the Old Man of the Mountain?
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Komnenos
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 11:39 |
Originally posted by Dampier
Depends, can the Hassassins be represented by the Old Man of the Mountain? |
The term " Old man of the mountain" was coined by Christians who had come in contact with the sect of the assassins. It first refered to its founder Hassan-Ibn-al Shabbah, and then became a generic term for the respective leaders of the group, most notably for Rashid al Din Sinan who lead the Syrian group of the sect, from his castle in Musyaf, Syria in the latter half of the 12th century.
During this period the assassins had various contacts with the crusading armies, sometimes fighting them, sometimes being allied with them against the Arab Caliphates.
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Dampier
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Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 13:34 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
Originally posted by Dampier
Depends, can the Hassassins be represented by the Old Man of the Mountain? |
The term " Old man of the mountain" was coined by Christians who had come in contact with the sect of the assassins. It first refered to its founder Hassan-Ibn-al Shabbah, and then became a generic term for the respective leaders of the group, most notably for Rashid al Din Sinan who lead the Syrian group of the sect, from his castle in Musyaf, Syria in the latter half of the 12th century.
During this period the assassins had various contacts with the crusading armies, sometimes fighting them, sometimes being allied with them against the Arab Caliphates. |
Sorry, I should rephrase, can the Hasassin assassin be the Old Man or is this an ordinary Hassassin against an ordinary Ninja?
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Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 16:50 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
The rumour that the "assassins" were forcibly drugged up is mainly based on propaganda of their enemies and on Marco Polo's account of his visit in one of the sects stronholds. As Marco Polo is not the best source when it comes to historical accuracy, it's pretty safe to regard the use of cannabis as myth. To conduct this sort of clandestine, undercover operation, the assassins got famous for, one needs a clear head anyway, and being stoned would seriously endanger its success. Just imagine a grinning and giggling Muslim warrior with a craving for chocolate sneaking into the Abbassid court, telling everyone to relax and be cool.
In any case, assassinations only were a very small part of the activities of this Ismaili sect.
Even the etymology of the word "assassins" is disputed. It more likely is derived from the name of its founder Hassan- Ibn- al -Shabah. |
Very true. Edward Burman, one of the most prolific and trusted scholar on the Assassins, have mentioned in his book The Assassins - Holy Killers of Islam- there's no mention of drugs use among the sect. Marco Polo's account on the use of hashish is conflicting. Polo writes: "The Old Man kept at his court such boys of twelve years old as seemed
to him destined to become courageous men. When the Old Man sent them
into the garden in groups of four, ten or twenty, he gave them hashish
to drink. They slept for three days, then they were carried sleeping
into the garden where he had them awakened. It can easily be said by this account that the substance was not hashish, since hashish is rarely a substance that is prepared in liquid form. As for the etymology of the word Assassins, Edward Burman says that it's derived from the word "Hassassin" - The followers of Hassan. I wish that the "Secret Archives" - Library of Alamut survived the Mongol demolition.
Edited by Alamut - 29-Oct-2006 at 16:52
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 04:44 |
Just imagine a grinning and giggling Muslim warrior with a craving for chocolate sneaking into the Abbassid court, telling everyone to relax and be cool. |
I'm doing an article of the Abbasids for the AE main site- now you've got my attention- I thought that the Assasin cult was a lot later
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snowybeagle
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Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 01:22 |
Ninjas were primarily spies first.
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Timotheus
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Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 21:42 |
It doesn't matter which, as long as they get the job done.
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white knight
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 10:42 |
Originally posted by Batu
ninja may fight better but hashashin is smarter and more dangerous. |
True, that is because ninja still fights or assassinate with honor while hashashin uses treachery as their reputation said.
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Seko
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Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 11:53 |
Here's an excerpt from both Marco Polo and Edward Burman. Two different descriptions of the Assasins. Note the divergence by the authors regarding intoxicants such as Hashish.
"The Old Man kept at his court such boys of twelve years old as seemed to him destined to become courageous men. When the Old Man sent them into the garden in groups of four, ten or twenty, he game them hashish to drink [sic]. They slept for three days, then they were carried sleeping into the garden where he had them awakened. "When these young men woke, and found themselves in the garden with all these marvelous things, they truly believed themselves to be in paradise. And these damsels were always with them in songs and great entertainments; they; received everything they asked for, so that they would never have left that garden of their own will." And when the Old Man wished to kill someone, he would take him and say: 'Go and do this thing. I do this because I want to make you return to paradise'. And the assassins go and perform the deed willingly." - Marco Polo - on his visit to Alamut in 1273
"That Hasan-i Sabbah and other early Assassin Masters had gardens seems likely since the garden is such an important part of Persian noble life and of mysticism. The water channels and meticulous care to ensure regular water supplies at Assassin castles echo the care which Persian and Arab villages and country houses today give to the presence of running water. So the legend of the garden in which Assassins were taken probably has its origins in fact." "Many scholars have argued, and demonstrated convincingly, that the attribution of the epithet 'hashish eaters' or 'hashish takers' is a misnomer derived from enemies the Isma'ilis and was never used by Moslem chroniclers or sources. It was therefore used in a pejorative sense of 'enemies' or 'disreputable people'. This sense of the term survived into modern times with the common Egyptian usage of the term Hashasheen in the 1930s to mean simply 'noisy or riotous'. It is unlikely that the austere Hasan-i Sabbah indulged personally in drug taking." "There is no mention of that drug [hashish] in connection with the Persian Assassins - especially in the library of Alamut ('the secret archives')."
"Once established in a secure and permanent base, Hasan sent da'is [missionaries] out from Alamut in all directions, At the same time he pursued a policy of territorial expansion, taking castles either by means of propaganda or by force, ad building others....Life at Alamut, and we may suppose in the other fortresses at this time, was characterized by extreme asceticism and severity." "Political assassination was not unknown in Islam before Hasan-i Sabbah. Earlier sects had used murder as a political technique, and there is evidence that Mohammed himself disposed of his enemies by suggesting that they did not deserve to live - and hoping that faithful followers would take the hint. There had even been an extremist Shiite group known as the 'stranglers' after their preferred method of assassination." The word assassin "definitely entered the literary vocabulary when it was used by Dante." In The Divine Comedy: Hell, Book XIX, "Dante describes himself as 'like a friar who is confessing the wicked assassin':
'Io stava come il frate che confessa Lo perfido assassin...' "Here the strongest possible noun is required since the criminal being confessed is being buried alive head down, thus denoting a sin of particular horror. The connection of assassin with wickedness reinforces the clarity and precision with which Dante used the word, and it was in this sense that 'assassin' then passed into other European languages." - Edward Burman, The Assassins - Holy Killers of Islam
Edited by Seko - 05-Jun-2007 at 11:54
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 02:38 |
The hashshins...
The hashshins were good assassins based on pure evil
The leader of the assassins promised them heaven ... and a taste before joining their group a small quanitiy of hash was given
Now to the pure evil
He gave them hash as a promise as long as they killed So an artificial "heaven" in return for much suffering but would god want it that others suffer for your own greed
lets think about it
Now to the proud
Isn't this similar to criminals? those who kill for money and power? for....maybe pleasure? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
let see here positive reinforcement for something totally against god "unholy"
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