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galvatron 
Knight 
Joined: 05-Sep-2006 Location: Malaysia Online Status: Offline Posts: 81 |
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 Topic: hazara peoplePosted: 06-Sep-2006 at 11:04 |
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i want to ask ,who are the hazara people in afghanistan and pakistan ,are they are desendent from alexander the great soldier or other ?thank you .
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 11:32 |
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Hazaras are Real Example of how Mongol people assimilated into majority.
Edited by Zorigo - 06-Sep-2006 at 11:36 |
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Afghanan
Chieftain 
Durr e Durran Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1098 |
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 12:29 |
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There are two distinct Hazara people. One of them are clearly Mongol-Turkic in origin and arrived most likely after the Mongol invasions.
The other are completely different and live in Hazara district of Pakistan and are related to the Balti people and are thoroughly mixed with other groups in the region.
Hazaras in Afghanistan have a long and bloody past with their neighbors around them. For most of the years before they assimilated they were fiercely independent and known as bandits and dangerous people. Any caravans that went through their territory were subject to robbery.
Those people known to trek in their territory were subject to death, and many people believed them to be monsters. They occupied most of Central Afghanistan and were finally subdued by the Iron Emir Abdur Rahman Khan. After the Even after Hazara made deals with the British during the Anglo-Afghan wars, and robbed outsiders, Emir Abdur Rahman Khan made overtures to them to be loyal to him. The Hazaras scorned the Emir, which led to Abdur Rahman Khan's campaign against them.
He subsequently conquered all their territories, got rid of their Mirs and leaders, and many were forced into Slavery and servitude. Others migrated to the cities of Mazar e Sharif, Herat, Kandahar, Ghazni, and Kabul. Furthermore, many fled to British India where they reside in the thousands in Quetta and Western Pakistan today. Some of them joined the British army and fought as far as Europe in World War II. Other Hazaras who remained loyal to the Emir became powerful generals in the Afghan army and retain their power and status today.
Most of the Hazara's outer territory was reoccupied by Pashtuns, Tajiks, and Uzbeks. It is said Oruzgan, Wardak, Ghor, and other areas surrounding Hazarajat had considerable Hazara populations.
During the Russian invasion they received arms and support from Iran and fought the Soviets bravely. During the Civil war of the 90s, the Hazaras were in constant fued with the Tajiks, and Pashtuns and committed war crimes against them, and had similar atrocities done to them. The Taliban systematically slaughtered Hazaras and gave swathes of their lands to Pashtun nomads.
When the Taliban were ousted from power, the Hazaras kicked out many of the occupying Pashtun nomads from Bamian and Hazarajat and took advantage of democracy in the region and are slowly rebuilding their lives after decades of war. Bamian is seeing a new age of recovery and reconstruction and Hazaras have the most to gain from Democracy in Afghanistan.
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 13:03 |
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 Ethnic map of Afghanistan |
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Vivek Sharma
Arch Duke 
Joined: 22-Aug-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1775 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 01:09 |
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Are the hazaras permissive in nature, in terms of male - female relations. I dont know, but had read something in a book, which I cant post, just want to know the reality.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 18:22 |
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This map is invalid. This map included Hazara Aimaqs as Tajiks. why because Hazaras are in majority shiite and Aimaqs sunni predominently. Both as speak Dari with their own dialict. Aimaqs accounted as Tajiks becasue are Tajiks are sunni.
The map below is more valid than the above.
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Jalair
Janissary 
Joined: 06-Nov-2007 Location: Kenya Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
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Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 20:27 |
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@ Afghanan Any links or elaboration on Hazara and British deal?
Edited by Jalair - 17-Dec-2007 at 20:30 |
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Zarra
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Brian J Checco
General 
Eli Manning Joined: 30-Jan-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 925 |
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Posted: 17-Dec-2007 at 20:55 |
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The horrors that Hazaras were subjected too during the second half of the 20th century was elucidated upon in Khalid Hosseini's "The Kite Runner," which was a best seller in the USA.
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Naimani
Housecarl 
Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
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Posted: 05-Jan-2008 at 17:40 |
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Afghanan! Mashala my Afghan brother. This is how you tell the world about your Hazara people of Afghanistan? Your Pashtuns and Tajiks are not any better than us, because if you were then Afghanistan would be a peaceful nation since you make up the majority of the people in there. Shame on you! You are a disgrace to my country, Afghanistan.
Those people are brainless to get convinced by your stupid posts. Anybody want to know anything about us, ask me! We are not like Afghanan introduced us to you all.
Watch this video about our brief history:
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Naimani
Housecarl
Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
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Posted: 05-Jan-2008 at 17:44 |
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We are Turks and Mongols mixed...so we are Turkic! And we have been living in Afghanistan for over 2300 years. The great Mongol Empire and the Ilkhaanid Hazaras only increased our population. The reason why you dont find the name Hazara in history books before the Mongol Empire is not because we didnt exist but because our name changed when the Ilkhaanids returned to Hazarajat after escaping from IRan Iraq and Syria!
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Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1098 |
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Posted: 09-Jan-2008 at 22:51 |
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Don't know why you are bad mouthing me for the simple explanation giving in Abdur Rahman Khans own memoirs. I am watching your Youtube synopsis on the Hazaras and find much historical innacurracy.
Again you mention in there that Hazaras came to Afghanistan 2300 years ago. Where is the archaeological evidence for this? Where is the historical reference of this?
You also mention that the Mongol invasion in Central Asian faced fierce resistance in Bamian...which we know was occupied by Tajiks and Turkics. You claim the Hazaras are the descendants of those places but we all know that Bamian's population was literally wiped out by the Mongols.
Furthermore, Turkics had migrated to Afghanistan during the reign of the Huns, and they did occupy Northern Afghanistan, and there is no reason for them not to have settled in Bamian either. So why exactly is there talk of 2300 years of settlement in Afghanistan? Not even the section on Hazaras in wikipedia has this claim.
If you have this book, please relay the footnote or sources cited for this. I will gladly offer any sources I have in showing ALL who occupied Afghanistan during the 2nd millenia BC.
Edited by Afghanan - 09-Jan-2008 at 22:53 |
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
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Naimani
Housecarl
Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 04:36 |
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I'm not bad mouthing anyone, its wrong to write about a group of people the way you tell Forum readers about us, full of false info. You seem to be deep into politics which is the reason why you post false information about my tribe. You are talking about archeological evidance when you could see the Buddhas of Bamiyan till 2001, a historical evidance that proves the great history of Turkic Hazara ancestors. Hazara ancestors were mainly Hun Turkic(Uyghur) before the Great Chinggis Khaan. And if there is a book that says all Bamiyan residants were killed by the Khaans army, I can tell you that book is wrong, because only Shahr-e-Ghulghula was burnt and its residants were killed. Turkic people didnt live only in Bamiyan, they lived everywhere around Bamiyan(everywhere in todays Hazarajat). So even if the whole population of Bamiyan were killed(which is not true) there were still survivors on the Hindu Kush mountains all around Hazarajat.
Just because Turkic people were not named as Hazaras does not mean they didnt exist before 12th century. By the way, Turkic ancestors of Hazaras(children of Huns) were the ones who challenged the Mongols in Bamiyan. There is no source that mention Persians(tajiks) who fought against the Great Khaan. Persian(tajiks) were weak at that time. They only wanted to avoid the Turanian waves(armies) from the north. In the "Secret History of the Mongols" it clearly mentions that they were Central Asian looking people(inhabitants of Bamiyan) who were resposible for that war and for the death of Khaan's grandson. There were no Persian(tajik) in Central Afghanistan at that time. Persians(tajik) were mainly in todays Iran, Tajikistan and some lived in western Afghanistan and Tajikistan border. Jaghuries are one of the most ancient Turkic tribes, they have the same ancestors as the Uyghur Turks in China. They are the only Turkic people whos ancestors fought against the Great Khaan.
I suggest you should use your common sense as well as what books have to tell you. Hazaras were never wild or in favour of fighting others, the way you describe us. My ancestors have always been supporters of those who are weak and poor, and have always challenged the evil side. Just like Shahit Abdul Khaliq Hazara, a young Hazara Uni student who killed the Afghan King infront of his whole army, because he was an evil ruler who worshiped the rich and killed the poor. Its true that my ancestors were couragrous and proved that only they could achieve such things, but they did it to save thousands of innocent Afghan lives. Imagine how many more innocents the Kings would have murdered if he was alive! Stop hiding the truth Afghanan.
And its just a matter of time when Mr. Shahristani's book about Hazara history will be available for everyone to read. Edited by Naimani - 10-Jan-2008 at 06:14 |
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Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1098 |
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 04:47 |
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Are you done venting? Good. You didn't answer the main question and that is where is the evidence they lived in Bamian 2300 years ago. If Shahristanis book about Hazara is legitimate, please provide the sources he used to get this information. I'm not here to play war games with you. I understand Hazaras have been subjected to all kinds of miserable oppression for centuries, my quesiton is purely on the historical aspect of it.
Kushans (or the Confederation of Tocharians, Saka like tribes) were pushed into Afghanistan after their defeat at the hands of the Xiong Nu in 2nd Century BC, not 2300 BC. I'm not sure exactly where you are getting your information from, that is all.
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
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Naimani
Housecarl
Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 06:47 |
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Not venting, its called correcting your incorrect posts mate!
Some of your comments are very stupid eg "all kinds of miserable oppression..". Miserable is something that we never were. You should rename your ID 'Unafghan' instead mate!
You want evidence? Read reliable sources. There is no problem with the legitimacy of Mr. Shahristani's book, in fact I can confidently say that after reading his book you will put the books you get your info from on the fiction section. Because instead of sitting behind the table and writing eyes closed like some writers, he actually did a lot of research and then started writing based on his results. Besides I think you need to research for yourself to find out who Hazaras really are. But I suggest don't write anything until you read Shahristani's books, because obviously your posts are not any use to those who really want to know about us.
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 07:29 |
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Ahem Ahem. The personal attacks, or what are bordering on them; not cool.
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Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1098 |
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 14:32 |
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You're not answering the main question.
Where exactly is the evidence for the 2300 years of Hazaras in Afghanistan? I have not even started to refute your unproven claims yet and yet you are already on the ball to conveniently reject all of them without question.
Again, if you have Shahristanis book - KINDLY share where he got this information that 2300 years ago Hazaras have existed in Afghanistan.
Edited by Afghanan - 10-Jan-2008 at 14:33 |
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
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Naimani
Housecarl
Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 15:06 |
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I answered you when you asked me the first time, which was days ago. The book called "Dairatul Taarikh", written in Arabik and Persian clearly mentions the name of Jaghuri clans who were united with other Hunnus in Central Asia and the migrated to Hindu Kush mountain ranges of Central and Northern Afghanistan(Bamiyan) roughly 2300 years ago. You keep asking for evidence...what else can be a better evidence than the Buddhas of Bamiyan built by those^ Turkic acnestors of Hazaras during the Kushan empire.
Everyone knows from the "Secret History of the Mongols" that there were Central Asian(Turkic) looking tribes already in Hazarajat regions of Afghanistan. The reason why you are confused Afghanan is because you only read about the Hazaras. The name Hazara doesn;t exist before the Ilkhaanid Empire. So you dont get any info about us. There are great clans hidden inside Hazara tribe who are the most ancient inhabitants of Central and Northern Afghanistan. Edited by Naimani - 10-Jan-2008 at 15:11 |
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Temujin
King 
Sirdar Bahadur Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: Eurasia Online Status: Offline Posts: 5221 |
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 19:10 |
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i completely agree. the youtube video had a lot of inacuracies. there is no evidence of turkic migration in the 4th century BC (2300 years ago). also, what is the historical evidence of those Hunnic tribes, i want to know the original hsitorical document, not a mdoern book as reference. also, what is your source that those Turkic tribes were Buddhist and built the Bamian statues? you called them "Hun Turkic Uyghurs", what exactly is that? the Uyghurs as a large tribal confederacy only existed much later and they did not migrate to Aghanistan. |
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Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1098 |
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Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 19:35 |
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This is completely WRONG. The Buddhas of Bamian were built during the Ephtalites (White Huns) period, not the Kushan empire. The 120ft one was built in 507 AD and the 2nd larger one (175 ft) was built 551 AD. (Historical Dictionary of Afghan wars, Revolutions and Insurgencies, Ludwig W. Adamec, pg. 78).
This is also confirmed on Wikipedia as well:
You have your history all backwards. Which makes me wonder if this was just negligence on your part or are you working for a Pan-Turk agenda?
The Kushans were Indo-European people, most theories point them to the ancient Tocharians who were not Turks in the modern sense, they spoke Tochari, which is one of the most archaic Indo-European languages that existed. Although they had some nomadic ability since they were driven out by the Hsuing Nu, that still did not make them bonafide Turkics with Turkic language and culture, let alone Hazaras.
All this talk about 2300 history with no archaeological evidence to back it up is quite proposterous to say the least.
If you say that Genghis Khan ran into some Turkic tribes in Bamian, that does make sense, Turks had settled there a few centuries before Islam (C.E. Bosworth - Ghaznavids, pg 35), but not 2300 years ago. Under the Kushans, Bamian was a Buddhist cultural and cosmpolitan center and pilgrimages were normal. The Buddha statues built there were of the Hinayana and Lokottaravdin schools of Buddhism. Both of these schools and similar Buddha statues and Buddhist culture were found in Tokharistan (Beal, 1969, Vol. 1. pg. 50), Hadda, Pakistan and Swat, which means they were similar to Gandharan schools of Buddhism. (The Ephtalite Empire, B.A. Litvinsky pg. 153 - Hist. Of Civlizations of Central Asia: Volume III).
Edited by Afghanan - 10-Jan-2008 at 19:56 |
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
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Naimani
Housecarl
Joined: 03-Jul-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
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Posted: 11-Jan-2008 at 01:06 |
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I don't get my info Wikipedia
I agree^
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Rogho da taye aash khaw namumana!
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