Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Finest Army of the 20th Century

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
Poll Question: Japanese Army 1905
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [1.89%]
15 [5.66%]
78 [29.43%]
61 [23.02%]
82 [30.94%]
21 [7.92%]
3 [1.13%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
CedricEmrys View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 12-Feb-2018
Location: Connecticut
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26
  Quote CedricEmrys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Finest Army of the 20th Century
    Posted: 22-Feb-2018 at 11:45
Originally posted by Conquistador

I voted for Wehrmacht 1940, they were superior to any other army at the time, and they proved it time after time on the battlefield. The only problem where it's leaders, like Hitler, they are the ones who ****ed it up as the war went on, not the army itself. 
 

That is waht happens when u do meth, the germans tried to create a super soldier,and they accidentally created a form of meth. Hitler also used it and kind of lost his mind, got really paranoid from it. He no longer listened to his Generals, and started making his own desicions, most of which didnt work, the soldiers in russia at the time also used it. They became addicted and when the supplies started running out, so did the meth,and their will to fight. One unit were extremely stoned on it and thought they were being attacked one night, they werent, and wasted all their ammo and got attacked the next day and the russians wiped them out. Another unit on a retreat got pumped up on it and couldnt feel a thing. They walked through a blizzard and froze to death without even knowing it. 

The only reason the Germans lost D-Day was because of the well known desicion Hitler made to send a lot of troops up to the northern strait of Dover, where it was thinner and he was sure the allies would attack. His Generals knew they would attack at the position that they eventually did, they told him but he didnt listen because of his paranoia due to the meth. There may also have been some narcissism mixed in there as well. LOL
Buaidh no bàs
Back to Top
vangelis View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 20-Jul-2017
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
  Quote vangelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2017 at 18:33
Allthough all these armies one way or the other excelled in certain areas I will say the Wermacht.....because the task it took upon and the vast areas it fought (which ultimately caused it,s demise) can be compared only with a modern superpower....and even a modern day superpower can afford war on two or three small fronts...but not the size of the fronts Wermacht was fighting on......come on ....a German soldier  didn,t know how many thousands of miles away and in what shithole he was going to....familiar only to some military units of today...ring a bell?Wink


Back to Top
Domen View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 13-Apr-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 170
  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2010 at 02:11
 you say tanks on Okinawa / Iwo-Jima were not very useful against Japanese defence, so let's confront this statement with this data:

 

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=31191

 

The 713th Armor Battalion
(Provisional Flamethrower)

The Okinawa Campaign.

The flame tank had great psychological impact on the battlefield. According to the men on Okinawa, the armored flamethrower’s “value lies in its ability to drive the Jap out of his prepared positions into the open to be killed by supporting troops.

The results that the 713th Tank Battalion achieved on Okinawa during the period 7 April to 30 June 1945 were incredible. The battalion was credited with killing 4,788 and capturing 49 of the enemy, not including Japanese soldiers killed by escorting infantry or estimates of those trapped and sealed in caves or fortifications.

These figures, when balanced against the battalion’s losses of only seven men killed and one reported missing, speak to the flame tank’s destructive power as well as its survivability. Of the 54 tanks which began the operation, 41 were knocked out of action. Twenty-six of these were returned to duty.

On the last day of the operation, 30 June 1945, the battalion had 37 operational tanks and two others in maintenance (713th AAR, 6-38). The ingenuity and hard work of the mechanics had kept the battalion at over 70 percent strength after almost three months of combat. No mechanized flamethrowers could have been replaced considering that there were no others in the theater.

Back to Top
Domen View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 13-Apr-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 170
  Quote Domen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 15:22

The Western front- Hmm, A Beach head, LOTS, Airborne and Glider insertions against a well dug in enemy in difficult terrian. Did the Russian fight in the MTs-No they didn't, Did they contend with the hedgerows-No they didn't-They run across an already devestated eastern Europe. What they did does not require a great Army only a large Army (a large Army supplied by the US)

The Eastern front - hmm, large urban combats (Stalingrad for example), combats for Fortified Cities (Danzig, Gdynia, Kolberg, Dabie, Kostrzyn / Kostschin, Poznan / Posen, Breslau / Wroclaw), combats in the difficult (full of lakes, swamps and hills) and heavily fortified terrian of East Prussia (including the Fortified City of Konigsberg), Mountain Combats in the Caucasus, Moldova, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Romania, Balkans (Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece), several heavily defended river obstacles (Dnieper, Dnestr, Vistula, Bug, Oder), hilly terrian near Berlin (Seelow Heights). Combats in the area of Crimea (full of mountains and heavily fortified cities of Odessa and Sevastopol), offensives against German forces being conducted in extreme weather conditions (Winter), mighty fortifications of the Pommernstellung and the Meseritz Fortified Region. Ideal terrain for German tanks (for example Tigers and Panthers with their excellent long-range guns, useless in Bocage terrain of Normandy). Not mentioning the swampy (Polesie) and fortified area along the eastern Polish border of 1939 (those Polish fortifications were certainly used by the Germans in 1944).
 
 
Did the Russian fight in the MTs-No they didn't,
 
 
Let's see... they captured territories of Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, large part of Greece, Austria and Eastern Germany (not mentioning some combats in the Caucasus and south-eastern Ukraine area in 1942 and combats on Crimea) - so yes, they did:
 
 
And here you've got the area of Polish present day Warminsko-Mazurskie Voivodeship (large part of former East Prussia):
 
 
As you can see hilly terrain + a lot of lakes:
 
 
There were also many forests and powerful German fortifications there.
 
 
against a well dug in enemy in difficult terrian.
 
 
Just like Russians against Germans on the Eastern Front (especially in 1944 and 1945).
 
For example - map of fortifications existing in present-day Poland:
 
 
 
Blue - Polish (pre-1939)
Dark Red - German (pre-1939 and 1939 - 1945)
Violet - Austro-Hungarian (pre-1918)
Red - Russian (mainly pre-1918)
 
There were also mighty fortifications along the Polish eastern border of 1939 (present Ukraine and Belarus).

Fortifications of East Prussia and neighbouring areas (Northern Mazovia for example):
 
 
First map - built from 18th century to 1918.
Second map - built from 1919 to 1945 (you can click on the map to enlarge a certain area).
 
Red - German fortifications (Prussian on the first map)
Orange (green on the first map) - Russian fortifications
Blue - Polish fortifications
 
 
against a well dug in enemy
 
 
Photos from combats in East Prussia:
 
 
For example (if this is not well dug in then what is? LOL):
 

And:
 
 
Map of fortifications of Danzig (Gdansk) and Gdynia in 1945:
 
 
Translation of the map legend (in this order):
 
First line of fortifications
Second line of fortifications
Bolt (blocking) position
Additional defensive lines
Resistance nodes and points
Mines
 
Map taken from "maps of battles" section of this website:
 


Edited by Domen - 10-Jul-2010 at 16:16
Back to Top
Maximus Germanicus I View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 26-Jun-2010
Location: US
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 85
  Quote Maximus Germanicus I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 02:08
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by Cryptic

 
I do not think that is accurate.  When Germany attacked the western allies in 1940, the British, French, Dutch, Norweigans etc were attacked by the best troops the Germans had.  Many of these units were then shifted to attack the Soviet Union. Even then, the Germans sent one of their best (Rommel) and high quality German divisions to North Africa.
 
For the rest of the war, I think the quality match was about even:
Soviet Union 1941-1945: Soviets faced not only elite or high quality Waffen SS or Germany army divisions, but also an army of very unethusiastic Italians, marginal Romanians as well as second or even third string German units.
 
France / Belgium 1944: Western allies faced the entire German armed forces from elite SS and army divisions, paratroopers to second or third string garrison divisions including batalions of very unenthusiastic "Germanized" Poles.
 
Italy 1943-45: The Germans sent a high quality commander (Kesserling), paratroopers and other high quality divisions as well as average divisions.  
 
 
Actually I think it was quite accurate. Soviet Union did fight against 90% of German army. And so called unethusiastic "Germanised Poles" fought on all German fronts. There were about 200.000 Poles (including my own grandfather) conscripted into Wermaht (not in SS, SS units were voluntary, when Germans attempted to create Polish Waffen SS unit they gave up because of lack of volunteers). And my grandfather was in the garrison regiments in Norway and later on eastern front. In the end of the war the Germans completelly gave up the reistance on the western front where the speed of the western allies was limited only by trafics, and fully concentrated on fighting the Soviets, beliving almost to the end that sooner or later western allies will sign peacetreaty with them and join them against fighting Soviets.
 
That is incorrect
 
QUOTE=Mosquito] 
 
A classic shortsighted american viev, Im not enthusiast of Stalin, Soviets and their army but the credit must be given to those who earned it. Russians fought in Europe against 80% of all German forces while western allied faced 20% of them.
 
 
[/QUOTE]
 
Which is it 80% or 90% Mosquito? It really doesn't matter becuase they are both wrong.
 
I would recalculate your Numbers if I were you. You are incorrect, the German numbers that I have seen are in reality 5.5 million. The Russians greatly exaggerated the numbers to make themselves look better with 2.5 million of other fronts that is about oh 68/32 however you figure in the force multiplier (troops dug in fortifications etc, etc you Know METT-TC) It gives the Germans aprox troop power of 11M on the east vs 12.5M in the west this figures that an Army in retrograde is worth 2x1 vs an Army conducting defense in depth 5x1. So when you take into account military doctrine--The Western Allies had the harder row to hoe.
 
Once again- a mindless blunt offensive in the East vs an opponent in Retrograde all it takes is a blunt object that is an easy battle plan-I dare say Mosquito or Dodem could have led the Russians to victory.
 
The Western front- Hmm, A Beach head, LOTS, Airborne and Glider insertions against a well dug in enemy in difficult terrian. Did the Russian fight in the MTs-No they didn't, Did they contend with the hedgerows-No they didn't-They run across an already devestated eastern Europe. What they did does not require a great Army only a large Army (a large Army supplied by the US)
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2010 at 02:19
Originally posted by Cryptic

It is unfortunate that they have passed away.
 
Are the photos in Czechoslovakia  from before WWII, maybe a training mission with the Czechoslovakians?  Also, was your grandfather in a cavalry unit (sabre and horse)?
 
No. In 1919-1920 when Poland was fighting bloody war against Soviet Union, Czechoslovakian army took small territory on the Polish - Czechoslovakian border, which was inhabitated by both nations Poles and Czechs. Poland couldnt react because Soviet troops under command of marshals Tukatchevski and Budyonny were coming close to Warsaw and Lvov. After Soviet Union was defeated Poland sent troops toward Czechoslovakia but in result of french mediation was signed peace treaty that left most of territories grabbed by Czechs in their hands. So when in 1938 Hitler took over Czechoslovakia, Polish goverment made unfortunate move and sent Polish army to take this territory back and my granfather was one of the soldiers who took part in this operation. Not only Poles but also Hugarians sent their troops to ocuppy part of Czechoslovakia. This is a black card in the history of both Poland and Hungary, that both countries invaded Czechoslovakia together with Germany.
 
My grandfather in Polish army was in the horse artillery. In the German army, on the begining was in the infantry but later Germans moved him to their horse artillery as well (on the eastern front).
 
In polish artillery he was in the baterry of the The Canon de 155 C modèle 1917 Schneider which was also used by Americans, Germans and many other countries.
 


Edited by Mosquito - 01-Jul-2010 at 03:36
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 19:23
I don't think that anyone with a desire to know the past, could ever denigrate special units or entire divisions of patritots who fought as cleverly and as strongly as other groups are reported to have fought in the distant past! Bravery, or foolhardyness, as it might be, are never to be questioned past a point! In every battle, both great or small, there always existed that "special" or unique soldier or unit, or division, etc. that went "beyond the call of duty!"

The so called "Spartans" have a lot of fellow travellers!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962
  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 18:48
It is unfortunate that they have passed away.
 
Are the photos in Czechoslovakia  from before WWII, maybe a training mission with the Czechoslovakians?  Also, was your grandfather in a cavalry unit (sabre and horse)?
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 18:10
And here some more pics of my grandfather in the Polish army.
 
On the first picture my grandfather with he unit, he is the one in the center, with sabre. In his unit were mostly people of Polish nationality, 2 Jews and 1 Ukrainian.
 
 
And here on the parade, he is the one on the right side, sitting with 2 others:
 
 
And here on the horse in Czechoslovakia:
 
 
Another one in Czechoslovakia, he is the one in the bottom:
 
 
 


Edited by Mosquito - 30-Jun-2010 at 18:45
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 17:51
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Mosquito

 
Oh I was posting about my grandfather on AE forum many times in the past.
Thanks for posting it again. It is an amazing story, especially with the pictures which "say 1,000 words".  
 
If you have not already done so, I would recommend recording their stories on DVD to preserve them (if they are still living).  The WWII generation is passing away fast and I am sure that future generations of your family would be interested in those stories.
 
 
 
Unfortuntelly they both are dead. My grandfather died about 10 years ago.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962
  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 17:41
Originally posted by Mosquito

 
Oh I was posting about my grandfather on AE forum many times in the past.
Thanks for posting it again. It is an amazing story, especially with the pictures which "say 1,000 words".  
 
If you have not already done so, I would recommend recording their stories on DVD to preserve them (if they are still living).  The WWII generation is passing away fast and I am sure that future generations of your family would be interested in those stories.
 
 
Back to Top
DreamWeaver View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 02-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 555
  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 13:36
Not being a buff on WW2 I believe most of the Edward VIII stuff is explained but some mystery remains over Hess, more so as tho why he flew to scotland.
Back to Top
jafferinc View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-Jun-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3
  Quote jafferinc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 04:36
I just read your finest army information and all of the according to their improvement and achievements i think it was great the army. But the most finest army is Pasdaran Iranian Revolutionary Guard 1982 which has been improved in the last few decades with a vast train fighters.

Edited by jafferinc - 04-Jul-2010 at 20:49
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 16:48
Originally posted by Cryptic

 
Originally posted by Mosquito

There were about 200.000 Poles (including my own grandfather) conscripted into Wermaht (not in SS, SS units were voluntary, when Germans attempted to create Polish Waffen SS unit they gave up because of lack of volunteers). And my grandfather was in the garrison regiments in Norway and later on eastern front.
That is very interesting. Perhaps you can tell us more about your grandfather.  Was he forced into the Wermacht because he spoke German, did he look "German", or was he just unlucky? Did he serve in garrison units on the Eastern Front or was he sent to the front lines as the Germans got desperate? 
 
 
Oh I was posting about my grandfather on AE forum many times in the past.
 
In 1939 my grandfather fought in Polish army against Germans. In 1941 he was drafted by Germans to Wehrmacht and as German soldier first stationed in Norway and next fought against Soviets till the begining of 1945 on the eastern front.
First Germans called the brother of my grandfather and tried to force him to sign volksliste. He did refuse. All his property was confiscated and given to newcoming German settlers. He himself was changed into slave labour and sent to Germany. When my grandfather came back from PoW camp Germans called him as well. They wanted him to sign volkslist. When he tried to refuse saying that he is Polish and is a Polish soldier, they answered that this territory was incorporated to Germany and all people living here are Germans and must be Germans, that if he refuse to sign his property will be also confiscated and he will be arrested and (no one know what next). Finally he agreed. Soon after he signed the list he was drafted to Wermacht.
 
My grandfather's first unit was 6th substitute batallion in Lubeck. When being a German soldiers, during holidays my grandfather found his brother and they made this picture. On the one picture you can see 2 brothers, one who refused to sign the list and became a slave with letter "P" (Pole) on his jacket, and second who did agree to sign the list and became German soldier.
 
On the other picture is my granfather in Polish uniform.
 
 
 
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 16:10
Originally posted by opuslola

Yes, my (annoying, buzzing, biting, blood sucking insect), you seem to have found something?

It seems that Hitler (until right before his death), did think that the "warrior blood" of "fascism" did exist in the Western World!

It is even possible that the British Crown, let him feel such?

There was a King that seemed to be much closer to Hitler than us?
 
Actually not i did find somthing but there are many historians who did. Most of things will remain unknown, many of the most interesting british WW2 archives remain top secret and will not be opened soon. What happend with Rudolph Hess, what happend with Himmler, what about secret negotiations between Churchill and husband of his relative in France, princess Jacqueline de Broglie?
 
Especially princess de Broglie is an interesting case. She was a cousin of Winston Churchill, british prime minister. She lived in France and during the war married with wermacht officer, captain Alfred Kraus. He was a secret agent of German secret intelligence. She also had a palace in England known as Donnington Hall, where Winston Churchill before became British PM was often her guest.
During the war princess became a member of French resistance and was often helping to save crews of allied air forces who were shot down in France. But in the same time her husband was copying the secret messages of resistance that she was helping to transfer. Many of secret messsages didnt even ever get to England because were earlier stopped by captain Kraus or were replaced by the fake messages producted by Abwehr. When Hitler resolved abwehr Kraus became the agent of SS which took over all the former agents of Abwehr, under the command of SS Brigadefuhrer Walter Schellenberg. Schellenberg belived that the only chance for Germany to survive the war is to end the war in the west and that western allies may sign peacetreaty with Germany if Hitler will bew removed and maybe he.... will become the chancellor of Germany. In 1944, after liberation of Paris, Kraus went to England wearing British uniform. Imidatelly after landing in England he was recived personally by Churchill. It seems that Kraus presented to Churchill Schellenberg's offer of peacetreaty what would allowe them to transfer all the forces from western europe to eastern front. The details of those negotiations are being kept in secret even today. One can ask, why would Churchill want to make peace with Germany. Well, the result of the war was sure, it was the game for postwar Europe. Soviet forces were getting close to Germany, Soviet Union had biggest army on earth with the state prepared for enormous war effort. The conquest of Germany by Soviet Union would mean that this army would be a 1000 km closer to the west than before the war. Churchill did never want to launch invasion in Normandy, instead of it a year earlier proposed invasion in blakans which would cut the road of the Red Army to west but Roosevelt, souerounded by pro soviet advisors didnt agree for it. And later when allied armies crossed Rhine river Roosevelt ordered even to slow their march toward Berlin. In such situation German offer might have been interesting for Churchill. Great Britain and USA would spare the life of thousands of soldiers and millions of dollars. Soviet forces maybe would have been hold or even driven back for few houndrieds kilometres. It was obvious that German Wermacht strenghtened by tens of divisions moved from western front to the east would give much bigger resistance to Red Army or at least slow its advance or make it cost much more blood. Germany, without Hitler would remain in western sphere of influence. What did Churchill answer to Kraus? The case became public when member of British parliament Edgar Granville demanded explanations about the presence in England of German officer who is wearing british uniform. Where from did he know about it? Was he informed about Kraus by Soviet intelligence? British minister of defence has has answered in the parliament that this German has been "stopped" (not arrested). What did he mean? Just after the war Kraus was finally arrested but was kept in the secret prison of British intelligence services in Ham Common. Next he dissapeared and years after the war it came out that he lives in Austria. What did he did for the British? If I remember well, the archives concerning Kraus and his staying in England will be not opened before year 2050 - if ever.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 16:09
Of Course! I am sure you know that his leanings were attributed to be for the German side of the family? And, there was even the landing in Scotland of a very famous Nazi, that almost caused rebellion!

All of it is strange, but I would bet, by now, since I have little connection to late historical information, has at least been either explained or resolved?

Lots of strange things seemed to have happened from 1939 on?

Edited by opuslola - 29-Jun-2010 at 16:12
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
DreamWeaver View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 02-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 555
  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 15:41
You refer to Edward VIII
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 14:44
Yes, my (annoying, buzzing, biting, blood sucking insect), you seem to have found something?

It seems that Hitler (until right before his death), did think that the "warrior blood" of "fascism" did exist in the Western World!

It is even possible that the British Crown, let him feel such?

There was a King that seemed to be much closer to Hitler than us?

Edited by opuslola - 29-Jun-2010 at 14:48
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 12:04
Both Hitler and German officers who were in opposition to nazi rules in Germany belived that the worst threat are Soviets. Hitler to the end belived that western allies will recognise upcoming soviet danger and stop their attack against Germany or even aid him in his war against Soviet Union. One of his most famous attempts to destroy western - soviet alliance was finding the corpses of murdered Polish officers in Khatyn forest and making it a public affair, letting even the emissaries of Polish goverment in London to come and see everything.
 
Commander of German military inteligence service "ABWEHR" - Wilhelm Canaris was looking for british cooperation in removing Hitler from power even before the 2WW and during the war for any western help. He planned to kill or arrest Hitler and to sign peace treaty with the West. He did even conduct secret negotiations with Polish military intelligence (probably during WW2 the best world's secret intelligence service which had agents everywhere, from USA to Moscow) in which he promissed that after removing Hitler, if Polish army in the west will join German Army together with Polish underground army against  the Soviets, Poland will be restored with prewar borders. Canaris was probably meeting many times during the war with polish secret agent Klementyna Mankowska, where he acted as captain von Bonin, also officers of Abwehr with the permission of Canaris made a secret deal with Polish agent in France captain Roman Czerniawski who later played major role in the succes of D-Day. However not much is sure about all those secret operations because when in 1945 British authorites demanded from Polish goverment in the west the archives of Polish secret intelligence, the most important of them including the lists of secret agents were destroyed by the order of colonel Gano - the chief of polish intelligence department. Some archives were not destroyed nor given to British but hidden and discovered few years ago. They are today deposited in the Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum in London.


Edited by Mosquito - 29-Jun-2010 at 12:13
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 10:59
While I am not anywhere an expert in the quality of various German divisions that were sent to either the Western or Eastern fronts, I can only rely upon the descriptions of the average German faced by two of my uncles who fought in Europe, till the Wars end.

One was with the 82nd Airborne, and the other was a tank Captain with Patton's forces, one of the units that first crossed the Elbe River.

They both indicated to me that in general, the basic German grunt, was found to be either very young or very old! In other words 12 to 16 year old boys and sometimes girls, and 40-60 year old men!

Now, I know that a large portion of Germany's finest aged 18-30, had already been killed or wounded during the later parts of the war. But, the stories told to me by my uncles, tended to point out their thought that the cream of Germany was sent to the Eastern front!

This is also verified by other war reports, I have read, but cannot now find. Perhaps some of you have sources that might verify my remarks. And, perhaps not?

In any event it is important that we try to conceive of the idea that Germany was surrounded, and that its general staff, knew the end was only a matter of time. It might also be considered that this general staff also recognized that the greatest enemies of Germany were the Soviets, and not the Brits or Americans, etc.!

It merely seem common sense that these men would throw all they could against the Soviet, and sometimes even aid the Western armies?

Just look at the miles of territory Patton's forces were able to acheive compared to other armies?

My feeling is that the German High Command, literally tried their best to get Patton to Berlin before the Soviets!

As was written earlier'
"Originally posted by Mosquito

In the end of the war the Germans completelly gave up the reistance on the western front where the speed of the western allies was limited only by trafics, and fully concentrated on fighting the Soviets."

Only politics seem to have stopped his run to Berlin!

I seem to remember that the Soviets reportedly had 100,000 pieces of artillery surrounding Berlin, and reportedly lost upwards of 100,000 men killed or wounded in the attempt!

German dead and wounded is probably not even estimateable?

Does anyone think that these same troops and their commanders whould have fought so gallantly against Patton, etc.?

ONLY POLITICS!

Edited by opuslola - 29-Jun-2010 at 11:05
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.