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Persia and Islam

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Persia and Islam
    Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 12:46
I was wondering the other day why Armenia remained Christian while Persia converted to Islam during the Arab conquests?

What was the cause of Persia's conversion to Islam?
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 13:49
armenians are something unique in that region, i think because they where aware or scared of getting totally assimilated under muslims or their neighbours they remained christian orthodox.

I guess if the armenians converted to islam holly, maybe today you could find few armenians left, because they choosed to live further with christianity they stayed "isolated" and protected of being assimilated. Today you can hardly find any muslim armenian, maybe they are but arent aware of their identity.

about persia and converting to islam i would say the later dynasty's did the job of converting to islam, IIRC there where huge amounts of zerdushti's during 15th-16th century's under Saffavid reign.


Edited by DayI - 27-Aug-2006 at 13:51
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 16:01

Please read this thread about Mihr Religion (Mithraism)

Do you know Why followers of both Islam and Mithraism respected the sun and prayed five times (bowed down 17 times) every 24 hours - dawn, midday, afternoon, sunset and evening?
Do you know why they built a prayer niche in the wall of their temples and called it Mihrab? (Shiites even build a piece of clay and call it Mihr to place their forehead on while praying!)

If you ask me Persian didn't change their religion!

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 17:12
Islamic propaganda had a lot to do with it, especially in a time when Iran was in the grip of a greedy, inquisition like Zaroastrian clergy while still toiling freom the ravages of a 30 year war with Byzantium.  ISlam may have seemed like a welcome change for some.
 
Having said that, it was in no way an over night process and there was still much resistance and blood shed, but once one section of the country/population had accepted Islam, it was only a matter of time before the others were assimilated.  I have read that up to 20% of Iran's population may still have been Zaroastrian up until the Safavid spread of Shi'ism (apparently based on tax records).
 
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 19:10
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Please read this thread about Mihr Religion (Mithraism)

Do you know Why followers of both Islam and Mithraism respected the sun and prayed five times (bowed down 17 times) every 24 hours - dawn, midday, afternoon, sunset and evening?
Do you know why they built a prayer niche in the wall of their temples and called it Mihrab? (Shiites even build a piece of clay and call it Mihr to place their forehead on while praying!)

If you ask me Persian didn't change their religion!

i agree with this, alawi sect is also something like that mainly shamanism with little degree of Islam in it.
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  Quote Nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 19:16
I personally believe the (First Muslims) had support for coming to Persia. I know that Yousifzia or Yousifziad tribe (Lost ten tribes of Israel) of Eastern Iran who were jews at the time spoke the natives language.
 
Muslims came with the massage of last Prophet which Yousifziad who kept their religion among native Zaroastrians still believed that there would be another Prophet.  So from there Muslims found a new place where they convinced people about Islam, and from Sassanian's interference Persia was attact from two sides one from their own people and other from Arab side. Offcourse whoever says Arabs were strong and brave to destroy strong Persian Empire, have no history backround. The reason Arabs were strong was because Arabs had supports, from different people with many ethnic backrounds.
 
 
 
 
I have read that up to 20% of Iran's population may still have been Zaroastrian up until the Safavid spread of Shi'ism (apparently based on tax records).
 
Zagros my friend I would put the number higher as 40%. Remember how Timurlank killed millions and made boneTombs from the poor Zorostrians. That was not long ago was it.
 
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 22:30

There are a couple of things to remember

Islams militant nature has been very useful to empire builders. Many of the Imperialists that adopted Islam had success. In turn their success helped with the spread of Islam from the beginning to the more recent events.

The conquest of Persia/Iran was not an Islamic conquest. It was done by impoverished Arab nomads living next to affluent settled people. That kind of imbalance will cause a collapse sooner or later. There are many examples of that before and after Islam in Middle East. The conqueror just happened to Muslim. They did not even try to initially convert the people to Islam, so spreading Islam was not the reason or the goal. Also if you read the history of Islam you see that as soon the get to money they start in fighting amongst themselves

It is very hard to change the belief system people have lived with for a long time. In many cases through the history with successful religion conversions. The name and character of the have changed for political reasons but the religion is just the re-branded version of the same religion people believed in. Examples of this are Islam in Iran or Christianity in Rome/Europe

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 16:48
Originally posted by Zagros

 I have read that up to 20% of Iran's population may still have been Zaroastrian up until the Safavid spread of Shi'ism (apparently based on tax records).
 
 
I've read similar accounts long time ago but I cannot find them now. I wish I saved those articles. Maybe you are able to locate one of those articles, even in Persian, what would be appreciated.
D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 16:56
No, that's the problem, all I can remember is reading it, that is why I made no assertation in what I wrote, simply because at this time I can't back it up.  I also had a similar problem with Iran's population during the Sassanid era, which was estimated 8 million or so, also based on tax records.
 
I have tried finding both, but no luck.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 19:27
Originally posted by Nick

 
I know that Yousifzia or Yousifziad tribe (Lost ten tribes of Israel) of Eastern Iran who were jews at the time spoke the natives language.
 
 
Nick
 
On what bases do you make that assertion and what sources do you draw on?
Things i would like to know:
How u determine the tribe was jewish?
That it was one of the ten?
That it was localized in eastern iran of today?
How u determine the language spoken by them?
 
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