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Topic ClosedOlmec of african descent?

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olmec of african descent?
    Posted: 11-Nov-2009 at 10:52
You mean if his ideas were more mainstream they would be more credible.  Yes, and they would no longer have the same potential to stimulate and power up imaginations as they did in their original form.
Ivan Van Sertima is Professor Emeritus at Rutgers U.  The State Uni. of New Jersey. Until his retirement 2 years ago he was chair of the African Studies Dept.  When he wrote "They Came Before Columbus", no one had challenged the accepted histories before this.  This was in the early 70's and Black Nationalism was just reaching it's peak.  There was bound to be some distortions once the book was published.
 
 


Edited by red clay - 11-Nov-2009 at 10:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2009 at 15:24
red clay:
"You mean if his ideas were more mainstream they would be more credible. "

Normally no, but in history that's generally the case, since in history ideas are not just fanciful guess-work,. but are often based on textual/archaeological evidence, so it an author has ideas and is able to back them up with sufficient evidence, then more and more other scholars will accept them.

It works in much the same way with science, I figure.

There are exception ofcourse, but for the most part I thin that rule remains valid.

If Van Sertima's ideas were indeed strong, then even if not accepted whole-heartedly, would atleast be mentioned and discussed more often and with more seriousness than they normally are.

I recall reading many years ago a book that discussed his, and other Afrocentric's, ideas and they don't seem to be taken too seriously, atleast by that author and the scholarly sources he cited.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2009 at 05:43
In Academia there is quite often the attitude  "ignore it and no one will review it, it will go away." Like it or not, racism was much more prevalent than you think, and you have a highly educated black man challenging accepted history as written by white historians.  The only thing they could do was ignore it.
 
Btw-  Van Sertima never said anything about Egypt or any place else in regards those cultures being black.  That comes from Clyde Winters.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2009 at 08:04
To red clay:

I wouold have agreed with you years or decadees ago, but in todays environment, where scholars actually go out of their way to accomodate "non-conventional" approachesto history, and where "multi-culturalism" rules the day (often provoking a backlash from closet-racists screaming "white guilt!"), Van Sertima's ideas would be more acceptable or atleast tolerated.

That that hasn't happened shows that even with all the "anti-Eurocentrism" that is around today, his ideas have little merit.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2009 at 03:48
His book was first published in 1976, most of the negative reactions to his ideas took place then.  What you see now are people parroting what was written by others in 1976.  Not all of his ideas had substance, but as time goes on more of it looks less controversial.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2010 at 00:40
Van Sertima may have been right on some points while wrong on others.   But the main issue is that there are some  representations of Negroid types  in ancient Mexico (  besides Indians and some Caucasoid types )
  
 
 
Mexico, Olmec Colossal head Treszapotes II (c. 12 th-9th century BC ) and a relief from  Egypt ( 14 th century BC, Horemheb tomb, depicting Nubian war captives  )
 
 
( TresZapotes. F).
 
Many others  exist in stone, terracotta etc.
 
 


Edited by Sander - 07-Jan-2010 at 01:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2010 at 12:49
Hello. New here. The images may be intriguing, but this is afrocentrism at its best.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2010 at 20:03
I happen to believe that the so called Olmec heads, do represent African people! Anyone with a brain and at least one good eye, cannot deny the obvious similarity to many people found now in Africa and also now in the Americas!

The only thing is; 1. do we trust the dating? And, if so, 2. how do we explain them and the current dating?

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 16:19
there is hardcore proof that olmecs were from Africa. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 10:15
Kenndo made a post here.  The post and showed article was about a script called Ajami, stated to be a 1000 years old.  Nothing was about the Olmecs or of relevance to the topic.
 
A new thread is made.  His post is moved  to :
 
 
 
 


Edited by Sander - 02-Jun-2010 at 10:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2010 at 22:06
History is being slowly destroyed. Many in academia feel dates and records are not important, calling this Euro-centric. Instead they teach curriculum that is pseudo-history. They seek not to enlighten the mind but  prey on the hearts of the ignorant masses. Pride, hatred and superstitions are being substituted for logic, goodwill and science. We need to take back history from self serving groups that will have  history destroyed or twisted to their own sick agendas.




Edited by InTheFade - 26-Jul-2010 at 22:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2011 at 21:23
The Olmec heads do have some distinctively African features. But how did they manage to cross the ocean?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 08:16
Originally posted by Nick1986

The Olmec heads do have some distinctively African features. But how did they manage to cross the ocean?
 
 
The same way everyone else has since forever, boats.  And the olmec heads are just a tiny part of the Archeaological evidence.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 08:25
If you ask me voting will be:There are very much Polynesian features on heads.During last glacial period ,dry lands on this side of America,had been passed by X-men people.

Edited by medenaywe - 27-Apr-2011 at 08:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 08:47
Originally posted by red clay

Originally posted by Nick1986

The Olmec heads do have some distinctively African features. But how did they manage to cross the ocean?


 
 

The same way everyone else has since forever, boats.  And the olmec heads are just a tiny part of the Archeaological evidence.

Did they have the technology to build craft of that size? These boats would have to be big enough to carry many weeks of provisions for a large number of people
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 15:44
I always find the whole idea that people even take the idea the Olmecs were from Africa seriously laughable. I guess it's like 9/11 conspiracy theory, the jets were just holograms projected over missiles, thousands believe it. There isn't even a credible theory they were from Africa, just a fraud perpetrated by a conman who ranks alongside conspiracy theorists and faith healers.
 
Van Sertima is destroyed here.

Edited by Pytheus - 27-Apr-2011 at 15:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 11:09
It's easy to attack someone who is no longer alive to defend his ideas.  I don't believe the Olmecs were African, and neither did Van Sertima.  He was trying to bring out the fact that the Olmec didn't live in total isolation from the rest of the world.
In fact, recent work has shown influences from both Africa and China as well as Japan.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 11:25
 
 
 
 
 
 
These are not carefully selected items, they are just a handful of artifacts out of the thousands that exist in museums in Mexico.  Evidence of cross oceanic contact from both sides of the continent does not mean the Olmecs were from somewhere else.  It does indicate that the Olmec did not live isolated from the rest of the world.  Something that even a mainstream person such as Betty Meggers of the Smithsonian has seemingly accepted.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 11:35
Red,colorless statues due to aging,always give wrong view about color:black.But i prefer colorless.That does
not means they were not painted once.


Edited by medenaywe - 28-Apr-2011 at 14:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 13:48
The facial features and the stylistic hair treatments are what's important.  Some are stone, black stone.  Others are ceramic, which may or may not have been painted.
 
The fact that all were found in the general vicinity of Oaxaca Mexico is also important.  What is also evident here is the apparent fact that race had little or no importance what so ever.
 
What your looking at is evidence of a Global Trade Network.  These folks were not Olmec, they were there to trade with them.  Much like our "Trade Legations" we have today.  That doesn't imply colonization.
Actually,  There is much more evidence for China having more contact over a period of time than there is for Africa.


Edited by red clay - 29-Apr-2011 at 14:18
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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