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Big Elections for Joe Lieberman |
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Tobodai 
Tsar 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Big Elections for Joe LiebermanPosted: 09-Aug-2006 at 23:07 |
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I too would have been a Republican had it not been for first reagan and then neocons, I still think its the better party historically, but Im not an ideolgoical nutcase or a listener to talk radio so I know that its quite hypocritical to call Dean (who is a nut definately) a crazy man and not have an even greater probelm with say my states senator Santorum. People on this thread have pointed out that our countrries two crappy parties are both really right wing now, and by their standards I am also right wing, and its true. Deans apparent left wingedness to the average unimformed American is actually just a crazy centrist. I actually like him on some levels more than most because hes very pro NRA and for smaller government.
Small government, now thats something you dont see in the GOP for the past few decades!
We either need laws against redistricting, voting liscences (where one must pass a test to be able to vote) or many many more parties. Or, the solution Im more partial to is th epolitical merit system replacing democratic elections, but thats a whole nother topic.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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BMC21113
Consul 
Joined: 17-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 23:16 |
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-Well said, though I will have to disagree with you about Reagan.
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"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon |
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flyingzone
Caliph 
Joined: 11-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2630 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 09:21 |
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Tobo, you should definitely open a thread on this "political merit system" that you are partial to. I am sure I am not the only one who is interested in learning about this idea.
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BMC21113
Consul
Joined: 17-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 11:38 |
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-I would also like to see a political/voting merit system.......... I have thought about this extensively and would like to contribute to the thread.
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"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon |
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Loknar
Colonel 
Joined: 09-Jun-2005 Location: Somalia Online Status: Offline Posts: 666 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 14:03 |
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As an American I find Europe a bit amusing as well. It pretends to be something it is not...great. The days of Europe passed all because Europe was nothing but trouble for this whole world for the first half of this century. Now that Europe has had the reign of power taken from it by America and Russia you all feel free to sit in Cafes and talk about how "I like Americans but I hate their leaders." OK Let me tell you something...if you hate my leader you hate me because I chose that leader. Europeans look down at America as if they are so much more civilized and know what is best for the world...I guess after pillaging it for 400 years you know... And yes, in America, the Democratic party has been hijacked by whats known s the Hollywood left. Basically out of touch liberals with allot of $$$. Ive heard it suggested by disenfranchised Democrats that a business consortium needs to retake contorl of the party. And lets point out some things about Europe. Some nations still have conscription...some still have an official religions (but Dammit! Dont you dare swear on a bible George Bush!). You still stick to the WAY outdated system of monarchy (even though it has no power). IN the Netherlands a pro lets have sex with young people party was legalized. The NAMBLA website is hosted on a German server. Nations like France still continue to maintain a large presence in Africa after supposedly ceding its colonial influence (Oh does France still test nukes?) OK you nations in EUrope are basically hypocritical. Ill wage this against you. America is AHEAD in the following Form of government (no aristocracy/ no official religion) Freedom of Speech (no strings attached...yes you can be a nazi in America and that is something I am proud of). |
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Aelfgifu
Caliph
Joined: 25-Jun-2006 Location: Netherlands Online Status: Offline Posts: 3387 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 14:33 |
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Well, thank you for just proving my prejudice that Americans know dick about the other countries in the world. I've never seen so much disinformation and plain rubbish in my life...
if you hate my leader you hate me because I chose that leader
I am ok with that. Did you think I would care?
And yes, in America, the Democratic party has been hijacked by whats known s the Hollywood left. Basically out of touch liberals with allot of $$$.
And still they dont manage to be even remotely leftist. What a bummer.
Some nations still have conscription...
Most dont, some do. So? Is it worse than forcing people into the army because the only other option is crime?
some still have an official religions (but Dammit! Dont you dare swear on a bible George Bush!).
Yes, some have, and most dont. America does not have official religion, and yet religion still rules. At least in Europe, you know what you get.
You still stick to the WAY outdated system of monarchy (even though it has no power).
Our queen costs us considerably less in taxes than your president costs you. We could replace our ceremonial queen with a ceremonial president like Germany, but what would be the difference?
IN the Netherlands a pro lets have sex with young people party was legalized. The NAMBLA website is hosted on a German server.
Yes, it is the freedom of speech that you Americans so avidly preach but never practice. The act of paedophilia is still illegal, and now that they are joined in a party, it should be no problem keeping a close eye on them.
Nations like France still continue to maintain a large presence in Africa after supposedly ceding its colonial influence (Oh does France still test nukes?)
And America of course keeps its nose out of other countries business, and never sticks its nose where it does not belong. Get real.
America is AHEAD in the following Form of government (no aristocracy/ no official religion) And yet you are ruled by the rich and religious fanatic. On a far greater scale than any European country.
Freedom of Speech (no strings attached...yes you can be a nazi in America and that is something I am proud of).
So paedophilia is bad but nazism is allright... strange, I thought they were on about the same level of disgust. |
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
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Illuminati
General 
Joined: 08-Dec-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 949 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 17:21 |
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Wow. you have no idea what you're talking about. Hollywood does have some extreme liberals, even by European standards, but they don't have as much influence on the Democratic party as people think. Which is good, because socialists are fools. Though, I always found it hypocritical to criticize the government for not helping the poor and befriending the rich while they themselves are millionaires. Of course, that statement doesn't apply to everyone in Hollywood. but as far as Lieberman goes. Good. I didn't like him. His recent speeches have been pointless. He sides with democrats 90% of the time. He only strays on Iraq and some national security issues. He's as big of a partisan as anyone else, yet he's now running on a platform of criticizing how all the partisanship in the government. But to look at the issue from a politcal persepective. The democrats harmed themselves by voting him out. Rove already has the republicans prasiing Lieberman, which will further hurt his chances of being elected. Republicans want to see Lieberman fall because then they can attack the Democrats fro ebing weak on security and kicking out members of their party who were tough. Even though Bush is far dumber than Clinton was on national secutiry, its still a major weakness that Rove can exploit. It's up to the democrats to show that they can be tough on national security. I personally don't think they will be push-overs, but alot of people will probably disagree with me. Democrats can't afford to be weak on security, They know that doing so would be the end of their party. On a good note though, Congresswoman McKinney from Georgia didn't get re-elected. Anyone who plays the race card when the situation has nothing to do with race is no better than the KKK, I was dissapointed that the Capitol Building security guard didn't beat her with his night-stick when she assaulted him. The irony would have been hilarious. Edited by Illuminati - 10-Aug-2006 at 17:36 |
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Aelfgifu
Caliph
Joined: 25-Jun-2006 Location: Netherlands Online Status: Offline Posts: 3387 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 17:51 |
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Which is good, because socialists are fools.
I am a socialist through and through, but coming from an American I take it as a compliment.
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
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BMC21113
Consul
Joined: 17-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 17:53 |
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-Where exactly has socialism worked out well?
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"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon |
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Illuminati
General
Joined: 08-Dec-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 949 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 18:13 |
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Ahh yes. Let's stereotype 300 million people. That's quite intelligent. Please, continue with your hatred and stereotyping. You only prove my point for me. America isn't an ideology, you can't stereotype because Americans don't all believe the same things. Which socialist countries today are economic powers? None. Socialists are ideologues who take the side of their ideology rather than common sense. That isn't to say Socialist policies are all bad. Social security works, and most people think it's a good idea, but a complete socialist system is a fool's dream. Even scandanavian countries aren't completely socialist. History has shown what socialists and communists do to those who oppose them. Socialism and similiar ideologies are responsible from more deaths in the 20th century than even fascism is. not too mention, socialism breeds laziness and a poor work ethic, which is damaging to a country in a capitalist world. There's a reason that France has a hard time attracting foreign investors, and their unemployment is so high. Having a job is not a right in our world, and any socialist who thinks so only dooms themselves. A complete socialist economic system can only survive if the entire world is socialist. not too mention, socialism breeds laziness and a poor work ethic, which is damaging to a country in a capitalist world. There's a reason that France has a hard time attracting foreign investors, and their unemployment is so high. Having a job is not a right in our world, and any socialist who thinks so only dooms themselves. Edited by Illuminati - 10-Aug-2006 at 18:39 |
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Ponce de Leon
Caliph
Lonce De Peon Joined: 11-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2967 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 20:13 |
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Well said
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Loknar
Colonel
Joined: 09-Jun-2005 Location: Somalia Online Status: Offline Posts: 666 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 22:13 |
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And that you for proving mine. Now I know for sure that Europeans are a bunch of pseudo intellectuals sitting in Cafs and theorizing how the world should work because right now, these Americans are running it and they must be the dumbest S-O-Bs around. Europe and Americatruly friends. I think from talking to many Europeans they have a great knowledge of the world but are nave. Americans tend to know less about the world though if you listen to American radio they seem to do fine on their information.
Well I often hear I like America and Americans but I dont like their leaders.
That when compared to your society. I am a centrist here in america leaning on left. But I am sure in the Netherlands I am a right wing fascist. Just because the political compass isnt aligned with the Netherlands doesnt make our political system any less valid. Contrary to your beliefsthe Netherlands isnt the center of the world.
RELIGION RULES! HAHAHA This is a load of crap. Most Americans would say they believe in God (Christianity) but Id say most dont even go to church. We swear and drinkhardly a Christian nation.
Its just funny to me. Having some family hold an official title (with no power) so the can wear funny clothing and conduct meaningless ceremonies.
Socan you say Hey Hitler was a good guy! in the Netherlands? Could you say Boy, Id sure love to go out and bag me an 8 year old. In America you could say both. The problem is you have a political base from which pedophiles can harm children. What else cant I say in the Netherlands? I probably cant say anything racist can I? Is Mind of Mencia on TV in the Netherlands? No, Freedom of speech exists here in America better than anywhere else. We just dont allow terrorist political parties to thrive here.
Of course we dobut big deal. Im pointing out the hypocrisy.
Prove it.
No they arent alright. Pedophilia actively seeks to harm children. Nazism seeks to follow Hitler and as long as they dont harm anybody they can do that. Of course if they were to harm people wed probably shoot them for it. Edited by Loknar - 10-Aug-2006 at 22:15 |
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Tobodai
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 22:16 |
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Everytime I make a good moderate centrist point Loknar hijaks the right wing side of the argument and thus discredits half my points. His ranting is done is a "crazy drunk ranting" way that does a disservice to the conservative arguments I make.
That being said hes certainly right about Europes time being over, but the reason is because they experimented too much with facism and got tired of playing the power game, this is already happeneing to America and soon America too will follow Europe.
The rule of the west is over and I cant say Im sad to see it go.
One European state I like very much is the Netherlands, sure some say their socialist but they really are just capitalists spending money in a different way. Too much taxes for me but still, no other country truly embraces the ideas of freedom for the individual. Many Americans that say they are for freedom only mean the freedom of suburban and rural christian heterosexuals. Certain people often forget that the Netherlands has a lower crime rate and higher levels of living on average, so apparently moral policing is not only useless, its counter productive.
Sure I hate political correctness, and the idea that its ok to insult muhammad but not jews is a double standard (although I think you should be alowed to insult both, however badly you want) but its slightly better than sharing a nation with people that suffer from immense hubris that enables them to trample on privacy and their own military they claim to love so much.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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Loknar
Colonel
Joined: 09-Jun-2005 Location: Somalia Online Status: Offline Posts: 666 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 22:35 |
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Actually Tobadi, I was responding to the prevailing European attitude that I saw on the first page And no I am Centrist. If you read my post you would see that. Do you wanna see my scores from the political compass? Edited by Loknar - 10-Aug-2006 at 22:36 |
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Tobodai
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 22:43 |
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The irony is Im probbaly more right wing that you. Thats not really my point.
Your general attitude is to bash the whole of European society. Just as it is not fair for them to judge all of us in one blanket, I would say the same goes for us. You seem way to intent on starting some kind of Euro-American flame war.
If someone acts in what you perceive as a heinously pompous manner, call them on it, dont discredit your entire point by dissing their entire society.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2656 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 22:52 |
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Nowhere yet, but they'll turn it around! You'll see!
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Member of IAEA
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BMC21113
Consul
Joined: 17-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 22:59 |
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 - I bet!
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"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon |
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bg_turk
Sultan 
Joined: 28-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2347 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 23:21 |
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The Scandinavian countries are pretty close to what could be considered a Socialist system, and I belive they are doing pretty well. |
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Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 17-Sep-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4030 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Aug-2006 at 23:51 |
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Pretty well? They rank at the top of every quality of life, economic, health care, etc. list I've ever seen. EDIT: Except Cuba, which has by far the best overall health care system in the world. Doctors there spend 4 hours a day treating patients, 4 hours a day doing house visits. EVERY cuban is required by law to see a doctor, which is all free, at least twice a year. Their health care system runs on prevention, instead of treatment. Holistic and natural remedies are used in conjunction with modern medicines and Cuba has more doctors per capita than any area of North America and the longest life expectancy in the developing world. Go Cuba! Edited by Mila - 10-Aug-2006 at 23:53 |
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Jay.
Chieftain 
Joined: 24-Nov-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1207 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 00:02 |
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Mila, you are right, however, like the rest of the Cuban economy Cuban medical care has suffered from severe material shortages following the end of Soviet subsidies and the ongoing US embargo.
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Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb |
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