Are the Tatars Turk or M&#111;ngol?

Caliph

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 11:16

"Tater" has different meanings.

The original Tatas were either Mongolic or Tungusic.

When this group was conquered by Chingiz Khan, the name became used for by Europeans for all the nomads under the Empire, including Chingiz's Mongols and the Turkic groups within the empire. So basically, the old name "Tatars" became a popular general term for nomads.

Long after the collapse of the Mongol Empire, the name became primarily used for Turkic tribes in the western regions of the former Mongol Empire.

Edited by Imperator Invictus - 08-Aug-2006 at 11:18

Roberts

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 11:24

the Tatars were originally Mongol tribe which became virtually extinct in civil war back in 13th century in Mongolia. Then Mongols came to Europe, everyone called them Tatars. Today Tatars in Russia are Turkic by language and mixture of Volga Bulgarians, Kipchaks and other tribes.

Edited by axeman - 08-Aug-2006 at 11:24

Cywr

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 11:26

Wasn't there a Tatarstan, way back, like a 1000 years ago?
The word Tatar did eventualy become a generic thing for people who were nomads, and not specificly ethnicity.
I guess the question needs to narrow it down between the original Tatars (who were Mongilian), and the later day Tatars (a mixed bunch, but mainly Turkic).

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xi_tujue

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 12:42

Originally posted by Cywr

Wasn't there a Tatarstan, way back, like a 1000 years ago?
The word Tatar did eventualy become a generic thing for people who were nomads, and not specificly ethnicity.
I guess the question needs to narrow it down between the original Tatars (who were Mongilian), and the later day Tatars (a mixed bunch, but mainly Turkic).

there still is its a aunotmomus region in siberia but thats not the same as krim tatars

I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage

Temujin

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 12:50

the name Tatar nowadays can be compared to the term Latino or Latinamerican, it means people of various tribes (Crimean Tatars, Nogai, Volga Tatars etc) that all have shared Turko-Mongol background.

xi_tujue

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 12:53

volga tatars are th ones livin,g in tatarstan right?

I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage

Temujin

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 13:14

yeah.

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 16:32

turkey claim to muslim tatars crimean tatars run away to country than came turkey.because they think same nation crimean tatars language same turkeys language.they was settle down eskişehir and near.this action continued 1 century.

Anton

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 17:24

Originally posted by xi_tujue

there still is its a aunotmomus region in siberia but thats not the same as krim tatars

Tatarstan is not in Siberia. Not all Russia is Siberia

�ok ge�

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 20:15

I cannot recall where did I read this before. However, I remember the term Tatar is the inhabitant of Western steppes who were Bulgar Turks and were mixed with invading Mongols to form the Tartar notion. Is this true? Not 100% sure.

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 20:31

The Tatars of the Crimea (in the Ukraine) and of Tatarstan (in the Russian Federation) are definitely not Mongols. They are are Turkic people of Caucasian stock who adopted the name, customs, culture, and language of their conqerors.

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 21:52

Tataristans captial was/is Kazan. I'm not sure if this is in anyway recognised by the Russians.

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Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 21:59

Kazan or Qazan is recognized by the Russian Federation as the administrative capital of the Republic of Tatarstan, the current president is Mintimer Shaeymiev and the current prime minister is Rustam Minnikhanov.

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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 08:14

Originally posted by axeman

the Tatars were originally Mongol tribe which became virtually extinct in civil war back in 13th century in Mongolia. Then Mongols came to Europe, everyone called them Tatars. Today Tatars in Russia are Turkic by language and mixture of Volga Bulgarians, Kipchaks and other tribes.

Tatars weren't a mongol tribe.

There are two nations called tata.

Tatar Turks were gone to china in Proto-Turkic time in Turkish History.

"Tata" means Turkish in oldest chinese,and "-ar,er"additions means disbanded(dağılmış) in old Turkish.İt became Tatar.Tatars were a old Turkis Tribe,not young.

Some historians have theorys about Tatar Turks(but all of them are mongol =).They say Tatars were originally mongol.But a Tatar tribe in Turkey(now,they are battling with PKK kurds in mountains) called an Turkish antrologist,he researched and say that thay are Turkis(and sorry for my poor english =).

Tatars are originally Turkic friends.They mixed like other tribes but they are still Turkic.

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Caliph

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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 11:03

No, I think you're getting the usage confused. The original "Tatars" north of China cannot be used to apply to modern Tatars.

The original Tatars were unlikely to have been Turkic. They lived in a region populated with Mongolic and Tungusic peoples, and had many similarities to Chingiz Khan's tribe.

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Pretorian

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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 20:33

The original "Ta-ta" were from Mongolia and may have been either Mongol or Turkic, they were either incorporated into Genghis Khan's Mongol Horde or fled his onslaught and became refugees, eventually conquering Central Asia and settling there. The Tatars of Tatarstan adopted their name and customs.

bg_turk