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Liberators of your country
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Great Khan View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Great Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Liberators of your country
    Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 12:56
Bulgaria was firs liberated by khan Kubrat.He liberated us from the avarians in the beginig of the 7th century (thats for the ''Old Great  Volga Bulgaria'').In 1185 the two brothers Asen and Petar liberated us from the byzantine empire (im speaking for present day Bulgaria)than in 1878 the russians with the help of romanians and fins liberated us from the ottoman empire.Maybe their wish was to replace the ottomans but they liberated us.
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Posts: 170 		  Quote Red4tribe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 19:05
No one has ever really liberated America,the closest is France since they helped us out in the Revolution and we would have lost without them.The Netherlands and Spain supplied us too.
Had this day been wanting, the world had never seen the last stage of perfection to which human nature is capable of attaining.

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Posts: 96 		  Quote The Gypo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 05:37
thanks rider...persians after greeks..i dont know where the assyrians were
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 05:25
Hmmh. The Batle of Catalaunian Fields, it is called in English. And so is it also Syracuse... and Teutoburg Forest...
 
You know me, always babbling about names. lol
 
I first looked at the 17th and saw Marna, WTF is it? Then I understood, 'Marne'... and Waterloo. I am wondering why did he put Marathon so high. But this belongs to the Military subforum.
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Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 15:44
Originally posted by rider

I wanted to say the same thing as Kalevipoeg, but he beat me to it...
 
Today or yesterday, everything is the same.
 
18th most important battle? What were the others?
 
Answering Your question:
1. Marathon
2. Syracuzy
3. Arbela
4. Metaurus
5. Teutonberg Forrest
6. Fields of Katalaun? don't know in English but it is a btalle in which Atilla's army was stopped by Romans.
7. Tours
8. Hastings
9. Orleans
10. destruction of Spanish fleet 1588
11. Blenheim
12. Połtawa
13. Saratoga
14. Valmy
15. Waterlo
16. Sedan
17. Marna
18 Warsaw 1920
 
I must add it wasn't me who did that list and I don't agree with some choices like Waterlo or Hastings.
 
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 09:10
Hmm, I would add Assyrians and Persians to The Gypo's list.
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Posts: 96 		  Quote The Gypo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 07:57
anyone who liberated us Egyptians...tended to stay longer than needed
 
Romans>Greeks>Arab>French>Turk>French/British>British...
 
then Nasser decided to completely wipe our identity of "Egyptian" origins by calling it the Arab Republic of Egypt
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Croppy Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 07:05
Does the Liberation have to suceed?

Because in that case, Ireland would have a pretty short list. Ermm
All along that singing river that black mass of men was seen
High above their shining weapons flew their own beloved green
Death to every foe and traitor! Whistle out the marching tune!
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Posts: 166 		  Quote Barbarroja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 07:02

A liberation for somebody can be the oposite for another person but i think Spaniards had liberated us by ourself but with some foreing help. E.g. in the independence war against France when England help us, or during the Reconquista, many foreing soldiers came to Spain in the Crusade (French, Borgonian, Italian, Scottish, etc.).
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 17:41
I wanted to say the same thing as Kalevipoeg, but he beat me to it...
 
Today or yesterday, everything is the same.
 
18th most important battle? What were the others?
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Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 15:10
Ukrainians didn't manage to gain independence ( partially our fault ) and Stalin punished them for their disobedience. 6 millions Ukrainians died from the hunger in 30s.
By the way today is the 86th anniversary of Battle of Warsaw which is a national holiday in Poland. The Battle is also considered to be 18th most important battle in World history. It was called as such by British ambassador in Berlin Lord d'Abernon.
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Posts: 132 		  Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 14:50
Yeah, as history shows signed peace is just an armistice. I agree with Majkes, taht Baltic states and Poland was very lucky that  won independece in 1918-1921 ... In other case it could be  more terrible then 1939&1940 ... a lot of people could be "liberated" of their lives Dead

Edited by John Lenon - 15-Aug-2006 at 14:52
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Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 13:31
Ok, I agree with You that You won Your independence by Yourself forces, though Latvia with our little helpWink. But if the battle of Warsaw would be won by Soviet Russia I don't think they would honour any peace with You and we all would be citizens of one big communism paradiseDead.
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Posts: 1458 		  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 12:33
Majkes wrote: "Success of Latvian and Estonian army was only possible because Poland beat Soviet Russia in Battle of Warsaw. Had we not succeeded You would be swallow by Russia in the same year."

Well, the success of the Estonian army was due to the guns we got from the Brittish and Finns, and of course our commanders. Estonia was free of red elements already by February 1919. and in May we drove the frontline onto Soviet soil. The battle of Warsaw didn't affect our military success as it was fought in August 1920 and our military hadn't fought any battles in 1920 as we had made peace with the USSR. What the battle of Warsaw did do, was secure us against a second war with the Soviets.
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Posts: 132 		  Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 11:56
Originally posted by Majkes

That is strange that You don't know that. Polish-Latvian forces leaded by general Rydz-Śmigły defeated Bolsheviks and pushed them out of Latvia in 1919-1920. e.g. Dynenburg ( Daugavpils in Latvian ? ) was liberated by Polish army.
 
Thank you for usefuul information. Thumbs Up  It is strange, but in Latvian official history books I have read only about German army (general fon Der Golc) help in fighting with "bolsheviks" ... But Germans had their own plans about Latvia future ...
 
Originally posted by Majkes

Polish army fought mainly in part of Latvia called Łatgalia ( I don't know how to call it in Latvian). .....
Also I don't know about which part of Latvia You say that was liberated from Poland. We didn't occupy any part of Latvia.
It calls Latgale (Łatgalia) (before WW2 there was Latvia - Polland border). The part of Polland territory (near Latgale) after 1945 have become a part of Latvian territory . As I know the same situation Poland have with Lithuania (Vilnius,etc), Belorussia and Ukraine.
 
Originally posted by Majkes

Success of Latvian and Estonian army was only possible because Poland beat Soviet Russia in Battle of Warsaw. Had we not succeeded You would be swallow by Russia in the same year.
 
OK. Of course I agree. But success for indpendence of Polland (after 1917) and others parts of Russian Empire was only possible because of Latvian rifflemen, who helped  Lenin and his "comrades" make a Revolution in Russia WinkLOL History is very strange , isnt't it ? Ermm
 
 
 


Edited by John Lenon - 15-Aug-2006 at 11:58
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Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by John Lenon

Originally posted by Majkes

.... 
I have to remind You that we helped You against Soviets. Polish troops were fighting in Latvia and in 1921 peace with Soviet Russia was signed in Riga. It wouldn't happend if we haven't beaten Soviet Russia in 1920 in the Battle in Warsaw.
 
Sorry , but I did not hear about Polish troops fighting in Latvia. May be you can write some info about it ?
Latvia had signed peace with Soviet Russia in  11.08.1920, because of Latvian and Estonian army success in fighting with "bolsheviks". Of cource this success was possible because of Russian Civil War/October Revolution and all others War conflicts after WWI, including Polland vs  Soviet Russia.
 
But the one part of Latvia (south-eastern) was "liberated" by Soviet Union from Polland in 1939 ...
 
That is strange that You don't know that. Polish-Latvian forces leaded by general Rydz-Śmigły defeated Bolsheviks and pushed them out of Latvia in 1919-1920. e.g. Dynenburg ( Daugavpils in Latvian ? ) was liberated by Polish army. Polish army fought mainly in part of Latvia called Łatgalia ( I don't know how to call it in Latvian). Success of Latvian and Estonian army was only possible because Poland beat Soviet Russia in Battle of Warsaw. Had we not succeeded You would be swallow by Russia in the same year.
Also I don't know about which part of Latvia You say that was liberated from Poland. We didn't occupy any part of Latvia.
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Posts: 132 		  Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 09:34
Originally posted by Majkes

.... 
I have to remind You that we helped You against Soviets. Polish troops were fighting in Latvia and in 1921 peace with Soviet Russia was signed in Riga. It wouldn't happend if we haven't beaten Soviet Russia in 1920 in the Battle in Warsaw.
 
Sorry , but I did not hear about Polish troops fighting in Latvia. May be you can write some info about it ?
Latvia had signed peace with Soviet Russia in  11.08.1920, because of Latvian and Estonian army success in fighting with "bolsheviks". Of cource this success was possible because of Russian Civil War/October Revolution and all others War conflicts after WWI, including Polland vs  Soviet Russia.
 
But the one part of Latvia (south-eastern) was "liberated" by Soviet Union from Polland in 1939 ...


Edited by John Lenon - 15-Aug-2006 at 09:36
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Majkes View Drop Down
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Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 05:57
Originally posted by John Lenon

Originally posted by rider

Lenon, your list, I think has some mistakes:
 
...
2. Poland from the Germans (wasn't Latvia controlled by the Polish more than the Swedish; If I remember correctly, then the Swedish nver ruled Latvia or any parts of it)
...
 
Yes I forgot to write Polland, but I just want to show the principle of Liberation Ouch Wink
 
Polland Liberate Latvia from Germans (in this meaning Knigts) after Livonia war (1558-1583).
What for Sweden it rulled a part of Latvia after Sweden-Polland war (1600-1629) till 18 century, when Russian Czar Peter 1 won Sweden and got "a way to sea" for Russia ... But it was very often (may be always before 1918) that one part of modern Latvia terirtory (I think the same for Lithuania, Estonia and some others) belong to one ruler, but other to another ruler ...
 
All the times there was enough with Liberators Wink
 
I have to remind You that we helped You against Soviets. Polish troops were fighting in Latvia and in 1921 peace with Soviet Russia was signed in Riga. It wouldn't happend if we haven't beaten Soviet Russia in 1920 in the Battle in Warsaw.
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 05:11
No, from the end of the Great Northern War, Estonia was ruled entirly by Russia (or Denmark owned Saaremaa, but I think not. Oh, it didn't, Saaremaa went to Denmark in 1618, I think).
 
Mostly it was ruled by two rulers. Germans and Danes; Danes and Swedes; Swedes and Poles; Poles and Russians; Russians.
 
 
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Posts: 132 		  Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 04:48
Originally posted by rider

Lenon, your list, I think has some mistakes:
 
...
2. Poland from the Germans (wasn't Latvia controlled by the Polish more than the Swedish; If I remember correctly, then the Swedish nver ruled Latvia or any parts of it)
...
 
Yes I forgot to write Polland, but I just want to show the principle of Liberation Ouch Wink
 
Polland Liberate Latvia from Germans (in this meaning Knigts) after Livonia war (1558-1583).
What for Sweden it rulled a part of Latvia after Sweden-Polland war (1600-1629) till 18 century, when Russian Czar Peter 1 won Sweden and got "a way to sea" for Russia ... But it was very often (may be always before 1918) that one part of modern Latvia terirtory (I think the same for Lithuania, Estonia and some others) belong to one ruler, but other to another ruler ...
 
All the times there was enough with Liberators Wink


Edited by John Lenon - 15-Aug-2006 at 04:49
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