Anatolians before Turks

At the arrival of Turks,in the peninsula (not the Armenian or Kurdish region,) the only language spoken was Greek.
The adoption of Greek by the Anatolian people,dates back to 5th century BC when Cars ,Lydians and Luwians,adopted the Attic.(first as official language).

After the conquests of Alexander,the founding of Greek cities by the Seleucids in the inner Anatolia,and the hellenization of the "barbarian kingdoms" of Asia Minor this procession accelerated.

Geographer Strabo (a hellenized himself) mentions in 1st century BC:
"there is no sign of Lydian language in Lydia"
and also describes the way Cars were speaking greek as particular :"carizein"

In central and eastern Anatolia these languages survived more.
Goths who settled in Phrygia in 4th century where already bilingual in 5th century-their descendants are called "Gotho-greki" in a 8th century's text-like the Galato-greki" (Gaul-greeks) who where hellinized earlier.

Cappadocian survives till the 4th cent,
Isaurian till the 6th.
"Neo-Phrygian" epigrams are found until the 4th century (about 100),but Greek are already the vast majority,and it seems that until 6th century is disappeared too.

So,already in the 6th cent,Greek was the only written,and probably the only spoken language in the Western,central,and coastal regions.

There can be found 2 distinct linguistic and cultural groups :
The Greek speaking,Orthodox christians who recognize the patriarch of Constantinople as their spiritual ruler (Romei) ,and the others (including several ethnic groups-mainly in the eastern part)

As for the Slavs mentioned above,they were obviously early assimilated (this was after all the purpose of their transfer into regions where "Romei" were the  majority).




Edited by Digenis - 28-Jul-2006 at 15:36

Originally posted by Digenis As for the Slavs mentioned above,they were obviously early assimilated (this was after all the purpose of their transfer into regions where "Romei" were the  majority).

And how did Anatolia got Hellenized? Was Byzantine Empire strict about language issue or has it received Greek migrations from Greece? Or both.

Edited by Argentum Draconis - 28-Jul-2006 at 16:57

Originally posted by Konstantis Digenis is not speaking about Bulgarians that were transferred to Anatolia during the years of the ottoman empire.He is speaking about slavs that were transfered there during the age of the Byzantine empire History of Karaman was written AFTER the fall of Byzantium and AFTER the arrival of the turks in the region

Behind Byzantium lies a whole world, the roman and the hellenistic. The hellenization process began in the 4th century BC, when Alexander conquered the area. When Byzantium adopted officially the Greek language in the 7th century AD, there had been already a millenium of assimilation. If Greece was under turkish occupation for 1000 years I find it very possible that she would become turkified. Already you could see many Greeks, especially from Asia Minor, speaking turkish as mother language, in 1922. Or the 'Turks' of Crete, who are basically turkified Cretans.

Originally posted by xristar Behind Byzantium lies a whole world, the roman and the hellenistic. The hellenization process began in the 4th century BC, when Alexander conquered the area. When Byzantium adopted officially the Greek language in the 7th century AD, there had been already a millenium of assimilation. If Greece was under turkish occupation for 1000 years I find it very possible that she would become turkified. Already you could see many Greeks, especially from Asia Minor, speaking turkish as mother language, in 1922. Or the 'Turks' of Crete, who are basically turkified Cretans. Plus, the western coast of Asia Minor has pretty much always have been Greek. Also the Black Sea coast of Asia Minor had already been settled by many Greek states.

Originally posted by Argentum Draconis And how did Anatolia got Hellenized? Was Byzantine Empire strict about language issue or has it received Greek migrations from Greece? Or both.

Greek migrations happened as its known during the 1st (western Anatolia ) and 2nd colonization  (North,South) of Ancient Greeks.

The inner was colonized when the Seleucids founded douzins of  Greek cities.

The migration continued during the Roman period,since poor Greeks were trying to find a better future in the blooming new Anatolian cities.

But the majority of the population of the inner was actually hellinized  natives. It was not  a strict  language politic of Byzantium (after all the official language till the  early 7th century was latin!) -but more  the huge cultural influence  .Greek way of life was adopted firstly by the scholars and the upper  class  (as well as the monarchs  of the Anatolian kingdoms),and the population   sooner or later followed.

Christianity was also a factor of hellenization.

Originally posted by Bashibozuk Here we go, and go again...   No. The main language was Byzantine Greek, local languages were Armenian, Cappadocian Luvian, Lycian Luvian, Phrygian and Cilician Luvian in Cilicia Trachea. Also Laz, Slavic, Syriac Aramaic and Arabic were semi local languages spoken by little communities.

Can you give me any inscriptions of these languages after 6th century AD?
Is it just an imagination that they still existed?
Do you doubt that Strabo ,as early as 1000 years before the Turks says that western anatolian nations (such as Lydians) spoke only Greek?

Originally posted by Digenis   It's really interesting the way you try -with ZERO evidence to prove that in  Asia Minor Greek culture never existed...

Can you give me any inscriptions of these languages after 6th century AD?

 

I can't, because as I know, their alphabets were extinct by 6rd century AD, and their languages were almost extinct when Turks arrived Anatolia, but what I meant was that Greek wasn't the oly language spoken at Anatolia as you claimed. Local languages and even local religions have existed even during 17th century, as mentioned by Evliya �elebi, the Turkish historian who travelled many regions of Ottoman and Safavid empires.

 

In fact Kizil Irmak river is Alys in Greek (even if "Alys" is a hellinized form of a native nme for the river)

 

The native form was Marashantiya, which had a related meaning with the Turkish name Kizilirmak.

 

Alys  / -ates is an ending meaning origin from region in greek (ex:Menidi-Menidiates))

 

These are not the same kinds of derivations. His name was "Alyattes", not "Halyates". And his name was the same with the Lydian Neo-Hittite king, Alyattes, father of Croesus, who forced Cimmerians out of Hatti country.

 

According to you my friend speaks a pelasgic language...Isnt?

 

I don't know, maybe so. A friend of mine is also named Sibel and I also had a girl friend named Alev. Do you think I used to date with Hittites?

 

have you ANY evidence of cappadocian language after the 4th century AD?

 

Yeah, I have many more than the ones I mentioned above. If you need them I may provide some info, as a favour of course.

 

with ZERO evidence to prove that in  Asia Minor Greek culture never existed

 

I didn't have such a statement before.

 

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