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Topic ClosedA former Premier of Macedonia: I am a bul
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Posts: 1066 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: A former Premier of Macedonia: I am a bul
    Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 06:12
Originally posted by Sokrates

The people living in the Republic of Macedonia are neither bulgarians nor they have bulgarian self-consciousness. They are a "balkan" mixture of  serbian ,bulgarians,greeks and less people of turkish descent, whose language is bulgarian dialect. Due to this ethnic and religious diversity  this country is  doomed to disintegrate. But they are neither serbians nor bulgarians as the bulgarian and serbian propaganda is trying to convince the neutral observers.

All we the balkanians are a mixture.
So it is the easiest thing for everyone to say the same blah-blah-tales like yours.
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 06:21
 No you are not right. Macedonia is the most  ethnically mixed country. Whereas Bulgaria,Greece and Serbia are strongly homogeneous  countries, due to the many population exchanges at the beginning of the 20th century.
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Posts: 1066 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 06:22
Originally posted by Sokrates

Bulgaria has no territorial or ethnic claims towards the Republic of Macedonia.

They cannot be "towards" our people in FYROM.
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Posts: 1066 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 06:29
Originally posted by Sokrates

Macedonia is the most  ethnically mixed country.

So is this your evidence that the bulgarians in FYROM "are neither serbians nor bulgarians as the bulgarian and serbian propaganda is trying to convince the neutral observers"?!
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 06:34
  Have you ever been to Macedonia or spoken with a representative of "our people " ? As I said they have lost their self-consciousness for quite a long time. Nowadays only their blood is greek,bulgarian or whatever, but they claim themselves Macedonians, this is the result of the communist propaganda and the Stalin's plan for creating Thracian, Dobrudjan  and Macedonian  nations. Fortunately only the Macedonian brang into the world.

Edited by Sokrates - 10-Sep-2006 at 06:35
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Posts: 1066 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 06:44
Originally posted by Sokrates

Have you ever been to Macedonia or spoken with a representative of "our people " ? As I said they have lost their self-consciousness for quite a long time.

If i agree with their nonsencial "self-consciousness", i will agree with one disgusting assimilation. So i will newer bow to the nonsence that they are not bulgarians, but "macedonian slavs" and that i am a "tatar". Just forget about that.
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 06:51
 Nonsence is to consider them bulgariansSmile However, you are trying to involve me in a dispute which is not very constructive.
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 08:07
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by akritas

[QUOTE=Seko]:
  • The essential, and actual, recognition of Greeces sovereignty over the entire Greek territory.
  • Respect for the Greeks Macedonian cultural identity and heritage.

 

 

As soon as you start to respect Thracian and Illirian cultural identity and herritage of nations that surrounds you  you might expect this for yourselves. Maybe.
 
If you define me the Culture  identity of the  Illyrian and the Thracian culture that represent the neigbors countries then I will accept my mistake. Until then
 
"The Illyrians, like the Celts and Thracians, dissolved in the sea of latter conquerors, simply for the reason that during the long period of Roman rule they had lost their native culture and were unable to utilize their language to a political life of their own...(Noel Malcolm, "Kosovo a Short History", Harper Perennial Press, NY, 1999)
 
and he is not the only one!!! 
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 10:46
Originally posted by akritas

Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by akritas

[QUOTE=Seko]:
  • The essential, and actual, recognition of Greeces sovereignty over the entire Greek territory.
  • Respect for the Greeks Macedonian cultural identity and heritage.

 

 

As soon as you start to respect Thracian and Illirian cultural identity and herritage of nations that surrounds you  you might expect this for yourselves. Maybe.
 
If you define me the Culture  identity of the  Illyrian and the Thracian culture that represent the neigbors countries then I will accept my mistake. Until then
 
"The Illyrians, like the Celts and Thracians, dissolved in the sea of latter conquerors, simply for the reason that during the long period of Roman rule they had lost their native culture and were unable to utilize their language to a political life of their own...(Noel Malcolm, "Kosovo a Short History", Harper Perennial Press, NY, 1999)
 
and he is not the only one!!! 
 
 
 
Yeah, I read a lot of that bullsh*t before. No proofs at all. Never in any book I read of modern authors never they post arguments for that. So, you just discreditize yourself believing those sort of "research". And this also tells me that you actually do not follow the logic of what is written and just read the conclusions.  Or maybe I am not right akritas? Maybe there are a lot of arguments for that? Show me them then.
 
 
As for Thracian cultural elements present in Bulgarian culture now it is discussed many times. Those include celebrations (like Nestinari/Anastenaria, Lazaruvane etc.), some cuisine is believed to be Thracian, people search origin of Balkan music in Thracian music partly, elements of Bulgarian tales contain Thracian elements.


Edited by Anton - 10-Sep-2006 at 10:55
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 11:03
Of course  you are wrong because as you understand (if)  until now  you  are the one that you didn't show, not one serious source as about the connection of civilizations that were alive before the appreance and the start of the present.
As about anastenaria is a custom that used from the Greeks   before 6th cent.
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 11:27
Originally posted by akritas

Of course  you are wrong because as you understand (if)  until now  you  are the one that you didn't show, not one serious source as about the connection of civilizations that were alive before the appreance and the start of the present.
As about anastenaria is a custom that used from the Greeks   before 6th cent.
 
OK, I see you again don't show these arguments. Propbably just because they don't exist. Connection of civilization are proved by their existance in the same place in the same time. Slavs are mentioned at 6th Century on Balkans and so did Thracians. Procopius and Theophanes mention that for example. And Bessic language was mentioned at that time as well (Antoninus Placentinus). Byzantine Emperors from provinces inhabited with Thracians and Illirians spoke bad Greek and Latin. Jprdanes wrote that Ister is bessic word. And at least 10 per cent of Thracian words are present in Bulgarian language.
 
 
And Simokata wrote that slavs are those who earlier were called Getae. And Malala and Tzetzes said that Bulgarians are local tribes. Surely they spoke about bulgarians at their times not about Protobulgarians and Slavs (which means that huge part of bulgarians at their time was thracian). Genetical experiments. Present traditions and tales with Thracian elements. And,  absolutely no proofs of their disappearance.
 
 
 
How many evidences do you want Akritas?
 
We discussed this with you, akritas, at least one time. You either have short memory or just do not want to accept obvious things.  
 
As about Anastenaria even your own Greek historians know that it is Thracian custom.
 


Edited by Anton - 10-Sep-2006 at 11:50
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 18:26
For you're information where is MACEDONIA.
Very OLD pictures, starting from 1477.
Where is GREECE ???
&
Where is BULGARIA ???




И тој Бугарскиот педер ... Мајката негова, предавник. Умрете душмани
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Posts: 227 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 22:22


Originally posted by Mitko

Foryou're information where is
MACEDONIA.


    
For your information, what is "Macedonia" on this maps:
1)Province of the Ottoman empire
2)Greek historical and geographical region, such as "PELOPONESUS" and "AHAIA".

And why you post such things in a thread called "A former Premier of Macedonia: I am a bulgarian!". Yes, he has a bugarian heritage, like most of the citizens of FYROM today, and like many of them he officially admits it, obtaining a Bulgarian citizenship.
    

Edited by Desperado - 15-Dec-2006 at 22:23
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Posts: 407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 01:48
Yes ,in fact the second is "the map of Greece" of PtolemaeusLOL
"Strangely" contains Macedonia too lol
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Posts: 412 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 05:38
Who is that guy Mitko?Did someone notice his signature?If i translate it to you i'm sure he will be banned.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
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Posts: 473 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 07:05
Originally posted by Krum

Did someone notice his signature?If i translate it to you i'm sure he will be banned.

How can you understand his signature Krum?Isn't this ancient "macedonian" language?
       
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Posts: 412 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 07:24
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Posts: 490 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 08:00
This thread is foolish, for example a minority of canadians declare themselves to be truly americans, yet I don't see any threads saying how this proves that Canadians are "Really" americans (which could equally be proven). 

If a lot of people from an area declare they are a nation, then they are a nation.  It will never be 100%, especially when all the surrounding countries are hostile to the idea.  Ok, you can challenge their historical claims but you can't take away that self-identification. 

As for saying they are a mixed people and are therefore doomed to collapse, that is just ridiculous, every people in the world is mixed to some degree.  For example is Great Britain doomed to collpase because it is an unholy mixture of Vikings, saxons, celtic, normans etc?  History could never allow such a creature to live!
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Posts: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by Krum

Who is that guy Mitko?Did someone notice his signature?If i translate it to you i'm sure he will be banned.
 
They are like kids. LOL
 
Actually word "peder" Embarrassed is international. At least I know that in French it is with the same root. It seems to be from one of those international languages like Greek, Latin, French or English. Does anybody knows the ethymology of this word?
 
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 09:00
Anton....is Greek, check this link


Edited by akritas - 16-Dec-2006 at 09:02
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