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Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel
    Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 07:03
History has shown that fascist regimes have no future, Israel's will be no exception. I just hope I am around to see them get it served and all racist Israelis hang their heads in shame (like their German counterparts 60 years previous) when they realise that, no, they are not god's chosen race, their lives are not more valuable than anyone elses and they cannot just steal people's land because they need lebensraum.
 
I say Israel denounces its racist policies and removes its Zionist (Nazi) regime, retreats to the 1967 borders and IF, IF the Palestinians, Hezzies or anyone else STILL attacks, then and only then will I support Israel.  But that won't happen because peace is not something that is desireable for a nation such as ISrael, it thrives on fear and violence.
 
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 07:07
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

Israel is actually fighting our war. And by saying "our war" i mean the US war.
 
I have selectively posted the part I agree with.
 
I think the difference between the good and bad, depends on if you only tune into cnn or aljazeerah. For some the devil is black for some white.
 
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 07:13
lol   "new Middle East" !
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 08:42
Originally posted by Zagros

History has shown that fascist regimes have no future, Israel's will be no exception. I just hope I am around to see them get it served and all racist Israelis hang their heads in shame (like their German counterparts 60 years previous) when they realise that, no, they are not god's chosen race, their lives are not more valuable than anyone elses and they cannot just steal people's land because they need lebensraum.
 
I say Israel denounces its racist policies and removes its Zionist (Nazi) regime, retreats to the 1967 borders and IF, IF the Palestinians, Hezzies or anyone else STILL attacks, then and only then will I support Israel.  But that won't happen because peace is not something that is desireable for a nation such as ISrael, it thrives on fear and violence.
 
 
Welcome back.  Your post is spoken like an Iranian patriot from the "alternative universe."  Wink  That is where white is black, war is peace and Jews are Nazis.  That is a mullah universe.
 
Look at it this way:  since the UN is like AE, where no one is ever very reasonable and nothing ever gets settled, Israel is just going to implement UN # 1559.  No one else will.
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 22-Jul-2006 at 08:57
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 08:58
Originally posted by azimuth

lol   "new Middle East" !
 
The new middle east will be the same as the old middle east.
 
Some things never change.
 
 
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 09:31
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Look at it this way:  since the UN is like AE, where no one is ever very reasonable and nothing ever gets settled, Israel is just going to implement UN # 1559.  No one else will.
 
 
why not implement the earlier UN resolution which Israel violated on itself first? Wink
 
yea also not only the UN never gets anything setteled, Israel too, 60 years and not totally "setteled" and still have problems implementing/editing their "Israeli Nation" plans.
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 11:00
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Originally posted by Zagros

History has shown that fascist regimes have no future, Israel's will be no exception. I just hope I am around to see them get it served and all racist Israelis hang their heads in shame (like their German counterparts 60 years previous) when they realise that, no, they are not god's chosen race, their lives are not more valuable than anyone elses and they cannot just steal people's land because they need lebensraum.
 
I say Israel denounces its racist policies and removes its Zionist (Nazi) regime, retreats to the 1967 borders and IF, IF the Palestinians, Hezzies or anyone else STILL attacks, then and only then will I support Israel.  But that won't happen because peace is not something that is desireable for a nation such as ISrael, it thrives on fear and violence.
 
 
Welcome back.  Your post is spoken like an Iranian patriot from the "alternative universe."  Wink  That is where white is black, war is peace and Jews are Nazis.  That is a mullah universe.
 
 
 
 
As far as I know the mullahs want an end to Israel in full, I want them off ILLEGALY OCCUPIED territory, the apparent source of all violence.  My view is objective and shared by the vast majority of people in the world.  I find it strangely coincidental that half the Bush admin are members of PNAC and ALSO have ties (honorary and otherwise) with Israel's equivalent of the Nazi Party, Lekud and or AIPAC, like John Bolton and many others, they are the only ones who stand up for ISrael's aggression... go figure...
 
You said Jew=Nazi, NOT me, that is slander. 
 
Nota bene: I urge you to put the proverbial in it and thus end the ad hominem bullsh*t with which you never can help but retort when you have no worthy rebuttal and feel offended (for whatever reason, since my post was not even directed at anyone). 


Edited by Zagros - 22-Jul-2006 at 11:01
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 11:03
Originally posted by Zagros

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Originally posted by Zagros

History has shown that fascist regimes have no future, Israel's will be no exception. I just hope I am around to see them get it served and all racist Israelis hang their heads in shame (like their German counterparts 60 years previous) when they realise that, no, they are not god's chosen race, their lives are not more valuable than anyone elses and they cannot just steal people's land because they need lebensraum.
 
I say Israel denounces its racist policies and removes its Zionist (Nazi) regime, retreats to the 1967 borders and IF, IF the Palestinians, Hezzies or anyone else STILL attacks, then and only then will I support Israel.  But that won't happen because peace is not something that is desireable for a nation such as ISrael, it thrives on fear and violence.
 
 
Welcome back.  Your post is spoken like an Iranian patriot from the "alternative universe."  Wink  That is where white is black, war is peace and Jews are Nazis.  That is a mullah universe.
 
 
 
 
As far as I know the mullahs want an end to Israel in full, I want them off ILLEGALY OCCUPIED territory, the apparent source of all violence.  My view is objective and shared by the vast majority of people in the world.  I find it strangely coincidental that half the Bush admin are members of PNAC and ALSO have ties (honorary and otherwise) with Israel's equivalent of the Nazi Party, Lekud and or AIPAC, like John Bolton and many others, they are the only ones who stand up for ISrael's aggression... go figure...
 
You said Jew=Nazi, NOT me, that is slander. 
 
Nota bene: I urge you to put the proverbial in it and thus end the ad hominem bullsh*t with which you never can help but retort when you have no worthy rebuttal and feel offended (for whatever reason, since my post was not even directed at anyone). 
 
Wink  Yep, Zagros is back.  You do keep things interesting.
 
 
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 12:24
Zagros
 
It is obvious that Pike is failing to grapple with issues that effect zionism, because the nature of the issues can be only grappled by Israeli academics. U can see the failings in the following logic.
 
Pike:-->"Anti-Zionist = anti-Jew"
 
" I doubt there are many Jewish anti-Zionists.   Some, yes; many, unlikely."
 
Just as u think that progress has been made, given his second comment, on the very next line of the same post he restates.
 
"Anti-Zionist = anti-Jew"
 
Disappointing, really.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 14:41
Yep, bad form.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 16:06
Originally posted by Zagros

History has shown that fascist regimes have no future, Israel's will be no exception...
 
 
I think we could add Syria to that list. Fascist-Baathist-Dictatorship.


Edited by Seko - 22-Jul-2006 at 16:06
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 16:58

Army Chief of Staff Lt-Gen Dan Halutz said the Israeli military would "turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years" if the soldiers were not returned

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5173078.stm - 57k
Didn't teh Nazis carry out collective punishment too? Staff Lt-Gen Dan Halutz would have felt right at home int he Wehrmacht.
 
I went to Ludice a town int he Czech Republic, the Nazis massacred 100 towns people there because freedom fighters killed one of their storm troopers.
 
Over 300 innocent civilians have been murdered by the Israelis for the capture of two of their still as yet alive soldiers.  The parallels are blindingly obvious.
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 22-Jul-2006 at 16:58
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 17:00
Not to mention the jealously vindictive destruction of civilian infrastructure.
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 18:32
Originally posted by Zagros

History has shown that fascist regimes have no future, Israel's will be no exception. I just hope I am around to see them get it served and all racist Israelis hang their heads in shame (like their German counterparts 60 years previous) when they realise that, no, they are not god's chosen race, their lives are not more valuable than anyone elses and they cannot just steal people's land because they need lebensraum.
 
I say Israel denounces its racist policies and removes its Zionist (Nazi) regime, retreats to the 1967 borders and IF, IF the Palestinians, Hezzies or anyone else STILL attacks, then and only then will I support Israel.  But that won't happen because peace is not something that is desireable for a nation such as ISrael, it thrives on fear and violence.
 
 
There sems to be an overall tendency to make inflationary use of the term "fascsist", and I'm afraid this is another one, and specifically as the above post tries to portray similarities between the motives for the Nazis genocidal and agressive policies, and Israel's raison d'etre.
 
The motives for the Holocaust were simply those of pathological racial hatred and nothing else, the Jewish people in the 30s and 40s were no political, social or military thread to the Nazis. It was utter barbarism in in its most senseless form.
The settlement of Jewish people in Palestine, the foundation of the State of Israel, and the war of 60 years that Israel has conducted against its neighbours, were the product of a desperate attempt of a persecuted people to establish a safe-haven that could guarantee its existence.
Zionism has been forced onto the Jewish people, they have not chosen it, it is the result of two millenia of relentless prosecution.
Israel does not so much "thrive on fear and violence" but is the result of an endless experience by its people of both.
Much of the psyche and actions of the State of Israel can be explained and understood by the history of its people, and it is impossible to ignore this. Israel believes it self to be in a constant fight for survival, in a constant fight to prevent the repetition of Auschwitz.
And listening to the propaganda coming out of Teheran, endlessly repeated all over the Middle-East, with some good reason.
To be confonted once again with demands for a total destruction of its people, as stated by the Iranian regime and its puppet organisations, Israel is put before an impossible situation. It can and should not allow any attempt to realise such plans, even not in their beginnings.
Israel and Palestine have obviously been chosen as the substitute frontline for an ideological and military conflict , and  the Jewish people have been identified as being the weakest link in the Western chain, and once again  have been selected as the prospective victims of annihilation. Here is the line where classical Anti-Semitism and modern Anti-Zionism touch.
Much of the methods, and certainly the last episode in the Lebanon, that Israel has applied over the last few decades to establish and defend itself can only be condemned, but as long as there are countries, organisations and individuals that call for Isreal's death, at least they should be given the right to defend themselves.
 
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 19:39
Originally posted by malizai_

Zagros


It is obvious that Pike is failing to grapple with issues that effect zionism, because the nature of the issues can be only grappled by Israeli academics. U can see the failings in the following logic.


Pike:-->"Anti-Zionist = anti-Jew"



"I doubt there are many Jewish anti-Zionists. Some, yes; many, unlikely."



Just as u think that progress has been made, given his second comment, on the very next line ofthe samepost he restates.


"Anti-Zionist = anti-Jew"


Disappointing, really.


Can you please explain to me why the Hezbollah leader apoligizes for killing 2 arab-israeli children(zionists) and not for killing jewish-israeli children?
    
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 21:26
Gundamor, can you please explain the relevance of what you just posted?
 
Komnenos, you condone the murder of 300 (and counting) lebanese civilians and the destruction of civilian infrastructure by Israel because you see it as "Israel's raison d'etre"?  It is malignant punishment carried out against almost an entire population who want nor have anything to do with Hezbollah and has nothing to do with whether ISrael survives or not. 
 
Rationalise it all you like, murder is not a lesser crime when carried out by Jews as opposed to Gentiles.
 
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 23:19
I find that many of us, and that includes many in my own country, describe the wars with which we disagree as barbaric, and the wars with which we agree as necessary. Just an observation, and not directed at anyone.
 
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 23:55
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

Israel is actually fighting our war. And by saying "our war" i mean the US war. It is in the US intetests that Israel actually succeds in defeating Hezbollah and Hamas because these terror groups have many terror cells in a number of US cities, and European cities. They may retaliate the war by starting to target westerners. SO it is hopeful that Israel will defeat the bad guys

Bad guys? Hah, typical American ignorance...

Why do you think radical Islam is that powerful today?

Maybe because US actually supported them against Soviets during Cold War era?

As you can see, nothing is that "black and white" or "good vs. evil" in this world.

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

War is hell. The Hezbollah started this and it is inevitable that innocence will be hurt

As long as it is not your innocence I guess?

Those innocent children are human beings. They are not any different from your little brother or son. Shame on you.


Who is to say that war cannot affect me too? I am just saying it from a perspective point of view. As most of us talking about these issues are
    
    

Edited by Ponce de Leon - 22-Jul-2006 at 23:55
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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 05:24
Originally posted by Zagros

Gundamor, can you please explain the relevance of what you just posted?
 
Komnenos, you condone the murder of 300 (and counting) lebanese civilians and the destruction of civilian infrastructure by Israel because you see it as "Israel's raison d'etre"?  It is malignant punishment carried out against almost an entire population who want nor have anything to do with Hezbollah and has nothing to do with whether ISrael survives or not. 
 
Rationalise it all you like, murder is not a lesser crime when carried out by Jews as opposed to Gentiles.
 


Why is the murder of Jews a lesser crime in the Middle East? Israel has fought three wars in self-defense against. People can claim that the West rationalizes the deaths of Lebanese civilians, but the fact remains that the Middle East has been rationalizing Jewish deaths since 1948. It goes both ways, and I think we should atleast recognize that neither side is more "moral" than the other.

I also don't think any members on AE condone the murder of innocents. We should stop trying to claim that members do. Stating that the the loss of innocent life is a fact of war is not the same as condoning it.

....In resonse to the situation as a whole....

While, you could make an argument against that the Israeli govt. is Zionist, it's ridiculous for people refer to Israelis in general as Zionists. It's a blind stereotype. Most of the Israelis alive today weren't around for the founding of their country. They had no control over where they were born. Israel is their home. It's where they grew up. Anyone who suggests that they have no right to that land and should leave, is merely blinded with hatred. Defending your life-long home is not Zionism.

I can understand the calls for Israel to withdraw from Syrian, Lebanese, and Palestinian areas, but anything beyond that is ridiculous. Israel isn't going anywhere, and any group that believes Israel should cease to exist, is the real threat to peace. As long as those groups exist, there will continue to be conflicts. And lets not fool ourselves, even if Israel did withdraw, these groups would still exist. Hamas has already shown that Israeli withdrawals won't stop them from attackin Israel.

and as far as "collective punishment" goes, it appears that it's something the Arab world has been doing to Jews since the even before the founding of Israel.  If we're going to sink as low as to throw the term "Nazi" around, then we'd better atleast be fair about it and recognize the Nazi-like actions of the Arab world also. The Arab world with it's mass expulsion of Jews (especially after 1949) definitely learned well from Hitler.
excellent article (posted on a forum) on Jewish expulsion from Arab countries...
http://www.meforum.org/article/263
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

Edited by Illuminati - 23-Jul-2006 at 06:18
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 07:11
Israel was in cahoots with apartheid South Africa, rationalise and justify that.
 
Two birds of a feather, well, they stick together.  Israel lost a dear friend and ally the day South Africa was liberated, a similar liberation is required in Israel.


Edited by Zagros - 23-Jul-2006 at 08:24
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