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kingofmazanderan
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Topic: Are Muslims trying to change the West? Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 21:14 |
Was listening to AM 640 last night and heard that Muslim women who go to public gyms and pools complain that men and women should be segregated. My question to you guys is are Muslims trying to change the western countries they live in into countries with muslim laws?
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Mila
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Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 21:27 |
Some certainly are. I believe most are innocently expressing their
beliefs and expectations, but some are intentionally, consciously
trying to target certain aspects of the 'West'.
It doesn't bother me, though. They'll never accomplish much and their
presence is a wonderful response to Jehovah's Witnesses and
Evangelicals in Muslim countries.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 06:02 |
does the west try to change the "muslimworld" the awnser is yes. they need democratie blblabla and they nee to be free if it is establshed with force so be it. do you know about whom I speak
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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ok ge
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 12:55 |
It is natural for one side to desire an infulence on the other, the West would love to see a church in Mecca, whereas the Muslims would love to see a mosque in the Vatican. The West would loves to see Afghani woman with mini-skirts, and Afghani woman would love to know sister Anna Falkouwski is wearing hijab.
It shouldn't be a problem, unless for Islamo-phobic, that for instance Muslim Americans demand more customization that fits their needs and religious doctorine.
p.s: actually it is already happening with swimming pools reserved for spefic days for females and many work places allowed for prayer time breaks for their employees. Wearing hijab too in New Jersey, New York or other areas of higher Muslim concentration is a normal scene too.
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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
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kingofmazanderan
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 15:13 |
xi tujue and coc qec i agree with both of you that both sides want each other to be like them. Its funny that people of different faiths think that thiers is the right one or the better one. Why don't they just get it that they are both right or both equally as good.
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ok ge
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 15:43 |
Originally posted by kingofmazanderan
xi tujue and coc qec i agree with both of you that both sides want each other to be like them. Its funny that people of different faiths think that thiers is the right one or the better one. Why don't they just get it that they are both right or both equally as good. |
Well, thoughout the history, civilization raises and fall. So many Muslims believe their civilization is undisputed because they at one point ruled the known world with all branches of science, and this goes now for some Westerns who believe that current Western civilization is the best product of humanity.
When you believe your civilization is the best, you will definitely not only desire an impact of your civilization on others, but even in some extreme cases, you will refuse any influence of other civilizations which are deemed less advanced to you.
Maybe such widespread belief of civilization perfection is what derives some Muslims to think low of Western civilization as mere materialistic and less human, and it is the same pattern of thinking that derives some Westerns to elevate the Western civilization to be a product of its own and not a contineous buildup of other civilizations that contributed to its final shape.
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D.J. Kaufman
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kingofmazanderan
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 15:57 |
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Maziar
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 21:35 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
does the west try to change the "muslimworld" the awnser is yes. they need democratie blblabla and they nee to be free if it is establshed with force so be it. do you know about whom I speak |
At the first place they need to be more tolerant, democracy and freedom will come by theirselves. For sure they need democracy and freedom, but the question is WHO want bring them and HOW they want bring them democracy. Yes i know about whom you are speacking.
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Illuminati
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Posted: 11-Jul-2006 at 03:11 |
I think muslims are trying to change the west. But, I also think that the West is trying to change Muslim countries.
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minchickie
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Posted: 11-Jul-2006 at 15:47 |
I think the question here rather is "Is the West on the verge of loosing its grips in general and would that be, to say the least because Christiany is not today what it once was in the eyes of the people (as the power)?"
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bg_turk
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Posted: 11-Jul-2006 at 16:04 |
Once I was asked to leave a public swimming pool because some Afghan refugee girls could not bathe when there were men around.
Edited by bg_turk - 11-Jul-2006 at 16:04
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 00:09 |
Any system which causes a person to believe that people of deviant
beliefs are headed for eternal misery in the afterlife has the natural
consequence of making that person desire the other person conform to
their own beliefs. But it is more than that also, many fear being
corrupted or made "impure" by the actions and customs of people of
differing beliefs. So both personal fear and human empathy make some
people with religious beliefs desire for people of different faiths to
be more like them, though I have found this particularly pronounced in
proselytising religions such as Christianity and Islam.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 02:31 |
Was listening to AM 640 last night and heard that Muslim women who go to public gyms and pools complain that men and women should be segregated. My question to you guys is are Muslims trying to change the western countries they live in into countries with muslim laws?
do they want, men and women should be seperated at all gyms and pool? or just the one they goes?
If they dont want to change all gyms, It is normal. They dont try to change west, but they are trying to follow their cultural norms at west.
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Majkes
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Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 15:59 |
In my opinion if You go to a country You should follow its rules and custom and if You are not happy with that You should go somewhere else. So I can't imagine that I will be thrown from a pool because someone is disturbed by my presence. If so He should go not me. We have Muslims in Poland for 400 years and we don't have such problems with Muslim minority like in the west. Probably because it is small but maybe Tartars are more tollerant muslims than other. Somehow it doesn't disturb them to swim with other people of diffrent sex so them or other Muslims don't respect or don't know Koran. Is it written in Koran that woman and man shouldn't swim together?
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Mortaza
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 06:36 |
In my opinion if You go to a country You should follow its rules and custom and if You are not happy with that You should go somewhere else.
You are talking totally nonsense. even locals of countries dont accept all law, so they change it.
I didnot know, disliking some laws make you guilty. Plus love or leave mentality is totally fasism.
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Northman
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 06:47 |
Of course we have to respect other cultures that we have welcomed to the country. Its perfectly normal here for organisations to reserve or rent a swimming hall just for the members for an hour or two.
I know Islamic organisations do this - and why shouldnt they if they believe thats right for them?
I see no problem with that.
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azimuth
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 07:00 |
well if that Muslim Woman who wanted a segregated swimming pools is a CITIZEN of that country, then she is demanding what she think is right, regardless of her religion. and as a citizen of a democratic country she has full right to do so and also have rights to criticize the current rules and laws without breaking them of course.
every person would like to see the system in the country he/she lives in adopt the rules and regulations that person sees right.
also the word " the west" is generalizing a bit, i heard that there are states in the US which dont allow gambling and its illegal to gamble in them ( IS that Islamic influence?)
there are countries in the Islamic world which allow gambling and nightclubs and drinking and prostitution, ( is that western influence?)
so again every person would like to see a system that he/she is more comfortable with.
another example if the Western population in Dubai keep increasing, iam pretty sure that they at certain points would demand some rules and regulations to be changed. maybe they might ask for mosques in the areas they live in not to call for prayers via microphones ....etc.
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so that's personal decision of a citizen of a country.
but when a country thousands of miles away tries to change rules and regulations of other countries then its trying to change that country.
i dont see Islamic countries demanding Islamic laws in the US while we see the US demands changes in the Laws of Islamic countries.
the question of Are muslims trying to change the west is a naive question based on a personal decision of a woman living in the west.
while the question of Are many Western countries trying to change the Islamic world? is the question to be asked and the answer is simple its YES.
and please dont talk about Democracy, Islamic countries want democracy and the west dont want democracy for them. the West was and Is supporting dictators of the middle east and once these dictators become useless the west starts its BS propaganda of restoring democracy.
also Western system isnt the perfect systems nor the idol system for democracy.
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kingofmazanderan
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:25 |
You make some very good points azimuth.
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Majkes
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 16:34 |
I don't mind if Muslims demand rights for them until it concerns my freedom rights. Freedom of the person is limited by freedom of the other person.
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Cent
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 16:42 |
Azimuth, you have a really good point.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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