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Arbr Z View Drop Down
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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Super Balkan Union
    Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:07
Originally posted by perikles

Originally posted by Arbr Z

Originally posted by Mortaza

It wont not because they are not albanian or they want to join with albania, but most probably some elites will such richness(poorness) of kosova, and they wont want to lost this money.
 

 

What do you mean?

Just for your info, the albanians of Kosova are albanians, they bear the same ethnic culture with the albanians of Albania propper, or with those of FYROM, montenegro, southernserbia, northerngreece. But, as they formed a constitutional part of the Yougoslav state, they have the right to decide regarding their status. And after being opressed and killed systematically by a sick politician and his army, I dont believe they would like to stay in the same state (Serbia).

    As you see only in that idea we start fight and provoke each other. The people living in nothern Greece are the same with southern Albania. Are Greeks. That was for your info. Now there is not going to be such a thing. There are two many differences and our past has many wars. After all we, the simple people, we cannot get along. Can you think the politicians sit on a table and start talking. They are going to debate for everything. Currency, Official languages, Political system, Army, finance, education EVERYTHING. So wake up. It is an outopia. Although in that case the growth would be great, after of course the poor egions(fyroms, Albania, East Turkey,Kossovo) develop. After that the growth would be great. Strong people as fighters, Well trained army, many cultural and touristic places, good heart and hospitality.

ps. The only way to have unity and peace in balkans is to become Greek (just a joke)
    
 
 
Perikles, I have been living between Kosova and Brussels from 2002 to 2005, which means for 3 years. While I am not denying the existence of the serbs, turks, romas etc, I can state (as everybody else in the world) that the overwhelming majority in Kosova is albanian. While regarding the southern albania, I am originating from that region, and it means that I am a tosk. I invite you to visit the region, and check it yourself regarding the majority issue etc. There are greek minorities, but only in well defined regions. Tell me, which is the data that suports your theory???Or you continue with your extreme right view on the balkans. I dont want to discuss on the ethnic majority of the Thesprotian region, Arta, Ioanina, Preveza etc, cause I have no real data, so please, try to keep it civilised, and stay on the ground. Here you are not in a nationalistic forum, and nobody believes you if you post no data.
 
To the turkish members, how was that the Turkey is sacrifying the turkish minorities rights? This sounds strange, every minority in Kosova is protected by the UNMIK, and they have representatives in every institution. So please everybody, do not post incorrect info, check the situation and try some real data, not journals and other gibberish.
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:37
To the turkish members, how was that the Turkey is sacrifying the turkish minorities rights? This sounds strange, every minority in Kosova is protected by the UNMIK, and they have representatives in every institution. So please everybody, do not post incorrect info, check the situation and try some real data, not journals and other gibberish.
 
Before 1999 Turkish is one of official languages at all kosova. After 1999, Instead of Turkish, English is one of official langauges.
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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:38
Originally posted by Mortaza

To the turkish members, how was that the Turkey is sacrifying the turkish minorities rights? This sounds strange, every minority in Kosova is protected by the UNMIK, and they have representatives in every institution. So please everybody, do not post incorrect info, check the situation and try some real data, not journals and other gibberish.
 
Before 1999 Turkish is one of official languages at all kosova. After 1999, Instead of Turkish, English is one of official langauges.
 
Friend, try to be realistic. How many turks do live in Kosova (percentage)?I could say that a bigger percentage of albanians live today in turkey, but still we never pretended of albanian being official language in turkey. What is important it is that the turks of Kosova have their guaranteed right to use their language, to elect and to be elected, to be educated in that language etc. They have representatives in all the local institutions wherever they live, and they have representatives also in the central government.
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 15:46
riend, try to be realistic. How many turks do live in Kosova (percentage)?I could say that a bigger percentage of albanians live today in turkey, but still we never pretended of albanian being official language in turkey. What is important it is that the turks of Kosova have their guaranteed right to use their language, to elect and to be elected, to be educated in that language etc. They have representatives in all the local institutions wherever they live, and they have representatives also in the central government.
 
I agree with most of your ideas, but this still doesnot change fact, at Serbian rules Turkish langauge is official langauge, at albanian rule, It is not. So Turkish situation is not becomed better under albanian rule.
 
By the way, How many english you have at Kosova?Wink
 
 
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Arbr Z View Drop Down
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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 17:56
 
I agree with most of your ideas, but this still doesnot change fact, at Serbian rules Turkish langauge is official langauge, at albanian rule, It is not. So Turkish situation is not becomed better under albanian rule.
 
By the way, How many english you have at Kosova?
 
Mortaza, in Kosova there is no albanian rule for the moment. Yes, the government is albanian (and the minorities are represented), but they can decide on nothing. Everything is depending on the United Nations Mission in Kosova, UNMIK, as they call it. They are present everywhere, thats the why of the english. But as soon as the government will pass to the albanians, there will be no need of english anymore. Serbian will certainly be a official language, for obvious reasons, while IMO turkish, roma, and macedonian should be used locally.
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Posts: 130 		  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:46
Originally posted by Mortaza

To the turkish members, how was that the Turkey is sacrifying the turkish minorities rights? This sounds strange, every minority in Kosova is protected by the UNMIK, and they have representatives in every institution. So please everybody, do not post incorrect info, check the situation and try some real data, not journals and other gibberish.
 
Before 1999 Turkish is one of official languages at all kosova. After 1999, Instead of Turkish, English is one of official langauges.


you talking before 1912? turkish language before 1999 never was official language in Kosova!

dude before before 1999 in Kosova never had Turkish school, TV, Radio, Parties ect...all those been create after 1999 :)




Edited by GoldenBlood - 29-Sep-2006 at 17:47
Kosova dhe Ilirida, pjese te Dardanise
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Posts: 130 		  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:51
from Pericles dude you some greeks have albanians roots while assmilatet Chams, Labs and Arvanites (and others slavs,turks ect)...dont be funny...go read antropology from european and greek and later write here :)
Kosova dhe Ilirida, pjese te Dardanise
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 16:10
ou talking before 1912? turkish language before 1999 never was official language in Kosova!
 
I am talking before 1999, and in Turkish newspapers, It say before 1999 Turkish is official langauge in all kosova.
 
Now It is only official langauge where turks have some majority.(I think this happened 1 or 2 weak ago)
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 16:28
Originally posted by GoldenBlood

from Pericles dude you some greeks have albanians roots while assmilatet Chams, Labs and Arvanites (and others slavs,turks ect)...dont be funny...go read antropology from european and greek and later write here :)


And some of your "golden blood" may be greek too Smile
(see greek colonies at Albanian coasts in classical era,Byzantine rule for centuries etc)
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Arbr Z View Drop Down
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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 10:06
Originally posted by Brainstorm

Originally posted by GoldenBlood

from Pericles dude you some greeks have albanians roots while assmilatet Chams, Labs and Arvanites (and others slavs,turks ect)...dont be funny...go read antropology from european and greek and later write here :)


And some of your "golden blood" may be greek too Smile
(see greek colonies at Albanian coasts in classical era,Byzantine rule for centuries etc)
 
In the balkans all the communities interacted. And anyway, there is nowhere such a "pureblood" nation.
Regarding the Byzantines, they were not only greek, some of them were illyrians, thracians, and later there were slavians, georgians, armenians...
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perikles View Drop Down
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Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 06:12
Arber there are many mixted up in Balkans. But this has small significance. The issue here is the national consiousness each nation has. The balkan nations has a strong one. This is an obstacle for a union.

ps. Greece has no claims from Albania. If we have we would have invade at 1997 with fincial problems in Albania with piramids. remember? but greek army hasn't done that. The Albanias in greece are many. They have more civil rights than the Greeks in Albania. Now if you don.t accept that i cann't do anything to persuade you. And "boy" cool. (I am just using your expressions)
    

Edited by perikles - 02-Oct-2006 at 06:13
Samos national guard.

260 days left.
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Arbr Z View Drop Down
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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 12:22
Greece has no claims from Albania.
 
The official Greece has no claims, and I dont know any underground important political stream claiming albanian parts. But there is you, who claim all the southern albania, or parts of it (read previous posts), and the problem is not as simple as this, apparently you are not alone...
 
If we have we would have invade at 1997 with fincial problems in Albania with piramids. remember? but greek army hasn't done that.
 
Well, dont be so naive. If in the world there was only Greece and Albania, well yes, you could be right, but there is also a place called Turkey, with which we happen to have excellent political relations.
Anyway man, believe me, it is not so easy to occupy albania...
 
The Albanias in greece are many. They have more civil rights than the Greeks in Albania. Now if you don.t accept that i cann't do anything to persuade you.
 
Ok, there is something you can do to persuade me. I am always willing to discuss. You brought this int discussion, now you have to prove what you said. What civil rights are the greeks of albania missing? Who ever did kill any of them, mistreat any of them, expatriate any of them, or prohibited them education in their mother language? Do you know that since 1990 we had the greek minority present in our governments? Apparently you dont know anything on the status of the greeks in albania, and you seem not to accept the de facto status of the albanians in greece
 
And "boy" cool. (I am just using your expressions)
Well, I hope using my expressions will help you, somehow...
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 17:45
I agree with most of your ideas, but this still doesnot change fact, at Serbian rules Turkish langauge is official langauge, at albanian rule, It is not. So Turkish situation is not becomed better under albanian rule.
 
This is totally untrue.
 
Education

After 1913, Serbia banned the Turkish education in Kosovo except some religious schools in Pristina and Prizren. By 1943, Turkish education completely disappeared from Kosovo. The judicial existence of the Turkish minority in Kosovo was recognised as late as in 1951. In fact, after the foundation of the Yugoslavian Federation in 1945, every minority obtained the right of education in their own language. However, Turks, who had to study in Serbian in schools until 1945, after that year were forced to study in Albanian. The right of education in Turkish was granted to the Turkish minority with a delay of six years. By the 5th of September, 1951 only Turks had the right to build their own schools where they are majority.
Today Kosovo Turks have their own schools in every educative level. In Prizren, Mamusha, Pristina, Gnjilane, Djakovica and Vucitrin, there are 3 kindergartens, 11 primary schools, 6 colleges and the Pristina University where on the whole 2532 Turkish students attend lectures. After the Kosovo conflict in 1998-99, the Kosovo Turkish Battalion Task Force Commandership located in Prizren and founded a kindergarten (Mehmetcik after the symbolic name of Turkish soldiers) in 2001. In this kindergarten, there are two classes that educate children in Turkish.
 
Albanians never outlawed it as you say, Serbians did.
 
Turks in Kosovo have their own Tv channel, schools, radio's, media, colleges, there are even Turkish faculties in the University.
 
Also Turkish was recently made one of the official languages.
 
So your anti-Albanian attitude is PUZZLING!, as far as Turkic minorities go, Albanians treat them one of the BEST! They have all their rights and good relations with Albanians.
 
Albanians are the majority in Kosovo, its an Albanian area.
 
Turkey supports Albania and has very good relations with the country, it also supports Kosovo as an ally of Albania and as there are many Albanians and Kosovan Turks in Turkey.
 
This is the reality, I don't know where you got your ideas from but they couldn't have been further from the truth.
 
Here watch this Mortaza, do the Turks there look unhappy or oppressed? no, there waving Albanian and Turkish flags together, Albanians and Turks are brothers in Kosova.
 


Edited by Bulldog - 02-Oct-2006 at 17:53
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 04:50
Originally posted by Arbr Z

If we have we would have invade at 1997 with fincial problems in Albania with piramids. remember? but greek army hasn't done that.
 
Well, dont be so naive. If in the world there was only Greece and Albania, well yes, you could be right, but there is also a place called Turkey, with which we happen to have excellent political relations.
Anyway man, believe me, it is not so easy to occupy albania...
 


Do you believe that "excellent realationships with Turkey" saved Albania by Greek invasion in 1997?
Maybe greek army would invade before 50 or 80 years-but since we are talking about 2006 Greece,this scenario would belong only here,in Historical Amusement.


The Albanias in greece are many. They have more civil rights than the Greeks in Albania. Now if you don.t accept that i cann't do anything to persuade you.
 
Ok, there is something you can do to persuade me. I am always willing to discuss. You brought this int discussion, now you have to prove what you said. What civil rights are the greeks of albania missing? Who ever did kill any of them, mistreat any of them, expatriate any of them, or prohibited them education in their mother language? Do you know that since 1990 we had the greek minority present in our governments? Apparently you dont know anything on the status of the greeks in albania, and you seem not to accept the de facto status of the albanians in greece


Greeks of Albania and Albanians of Greece are a totally different subject.
Greeks of Albania were opressed,esp during the Hotza period.
Their language was restricted in public places (officialy or unofficially),there had no relihious freedom.
As for after '90,take a look at the last elections in Himara: stolen ballot-boxes,attacks,one person stabed.
Apart from these,i believe tha as Albania becomes more stable politicaly,and walks(faster or slower) towards total democratization these incidents are become more and more less.
On the other hand Albanians in Greece dont form a historical minority ,but they are immigrants( most of them used t obe illegaly entered)
This caused problems both to them and to the Greek citizens.
As they gain legality,they become live parts of the Greek society, avoiding exploitation and misuse.

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Posts: 493 		  Quote Giannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 05:13
Why should Greece invade Albania? And in 1997? That's a new one for me.
 
The greek minority of Albania was oppressed by the communist regime (as well as albanians), that's for sure, but I don't think that there is hate in nowdays between those communities.
 
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 05:44
Do you believe that "excellent realationships with Turkey" saved Albania by Greek invasion in 1997?
 
Infact If something is saved albania from greek invasion, It is bad relationship between Turkey and Greece.
 
 Why should Greece invade Albania? And in 1997? That's a new one for me.
 
IIRC Clinton talked about the possibility of war between Turkey and Greece, because of Albania.
 
Albanians never outlawed it as you say, Serbians did.
 
I didnot say this, I said, before 1999 Turkish is one of official langage of Kosova.
Turks in Kosovo have their own Tv channel, schools, radio's, media, colleges, there are even Turkish faculties in the University.
 
Cant see any relation with official langauge.
 
Also Turkish was recently made one of the official languages.
 
Two or three weak ago, and only one or two city of kosova but Turkish was already offical langauge all kosova before 1999, so nothing new.
So your anti-Albanian attitude is PUZZLING!,
It is weird, to say reality turned to be anti-albanian attitude. Infact I am pro-albanian,(I will marry with a half-albanian girl, and will have an albanian father-in-law)
 
But that doesnot change reality, Also If I dont like Turkish nationalism, absolutely I wont like albanian one too.
 
as far as Turkic minorities go, Albanians treat them one of the BEST! They have all their rights and good relations with Albanians.
 
But still, before them, Turkish is formal langauge.
 
Albanians are the majority in Kosovo, its an Albanian area.
 
So what? Turkey is turkish area, but I think we should also decleare albanian as official langauge.
 
Turkey supports Albania and has very good relations with the country, it also supports Kosovo as an ally of Albania and as there are many Albanians and Kosovan Turks in Turkey.
 
That is excatly what I said.
 
This is the reality, I don't know where you got your ideas from but they couldn't have been further from the truth.
 
What I said is true.
 
Here watch this Mortaza, do the Turks there look unhappy or oppressed? no, there waving Albanian and Turkish flags together, Albanians and Turks are brothers in Kosova.
 
Well You can find some greeks and turks that waving each other flags too.
 
Anyway, I did not tell albanians or turks have bad relation, but this still doesnot change fact, albanian rule over kosova did not benefit Turks much.Most probably Turks will be next target after albanians(Serbs are a little anti-turkish.), but there were not near danger to Turkish community.
 
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 17:17
Mortaza
I didnot say this, I said, before 1999 Turkish is one of official langage of Kosova.
 
But you canot blame Albanians or Kosovo for this, it was under "UN" control they are responsible.
 
Now Turkish has been accepted again as one of the Official languages.
 
Mortaza
But that doesnot change reality, Also If I dont like Turkish nationalism, absolutely I wont like albanian one too.
 
You talk of Nationalism as if its a crime, there is nothing wrong with being a patriot it has nothing to do with being an ignorant, racist biggot those type of people try to hide under the illusion that they're patriots. If you love your country and all the people in your country what's wrong with this? people call others Nationalists but then say they love their country so they're Nationalist aswell.
 
Albanians have a national pride, why shouldn't they? I find that the more knowledgable and educated you are about your identity, history and culture the more relaxed and open-minded you are. However, the problem is people who don't have extensive knowledge and arn't educated about their history, culture and identity. These people feel that they must attack other nations in order to feel better then them because they don't feel good about their own identity, they are unsure, ignorant and this leads them to become biggoted and racist due to fear and paranoia. Sadly there are these types in all countries, there are also people who are proud of who they are and happy with their identity ie they don't need to attack others to make themselves feel better.
 
Mortaza
Well You can find some greeks and turks that waving each other flags too.
 
Common, we all know that the average people wouldn't wave each others flags unless it was some pollitical stunt.
 
Hopefully in the future, Greeks and Turks will have better relations and embrace each other, they are neighbours afterall.
 
Mortaza
Anyway, I did not tell albanians or turks have bad relation, but this still doesnot change fact, albanian rule over kosova did not benefit Turks much.Most probably Turks will be next target after albanians(Serbs are a little anti-turkish.), but there were not near danger to Turkish community.
 
 
Serbs a little anti-Turk? what world are you living in, you do realise that the average Serb see's any Muslim in the area as a Turk and its a reason for their recent aggressions against Muslims in the Balkans.
 
Albanian rule has not fully been established yet in Kosovo, it was "UN" rule. Since Albanians have been gaining more and more power, Turks have gained more rights Tv channels, schools, radio's, media, colleges...
 
Albania and Turkey have excellent relations, many Turkish investors are in Albania and have been given rights over others, there are cultural bridges being built, many Albanians in Turkey visit Albania and set up joint-country ventures and so on.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 02:55
We do not need a Union.What we need is to understand that the borders are not going to change again.What we need to understand is that we must have peace between us.What we need to understand is that ,as long as we are fighting each other,usually for stupid reasons,non-Balkanic Forces will reign in the area.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 03:13
Try this get a unrelated un-biased country like korea or japan, to conduct a ethnic survey of the balkans and then adjust the borders accordingly. to simple
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 13:59
The one who will try to conduct the survey,will also,most certainly ,dig his grave.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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