Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Ancient Macedonian language

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 9101112>
Author
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient Macedonian language
    Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 11:56
Originally posted by Flipper

You have other factors that give you a coclution as well.
 
That is right. But see my previous post Smile
.
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 12:00
Originally posted by Flipper

  And I would definetely not name my kids for United Kindom LOL

The last is a funny statement but there were women in Macedonia named Hellas lol. I mean, even in Greece today it is extremelly rare to find a girl named Hellada or Hellen. They would eather be children of a Pagan father or I don't know what.
 
Well, as far as I know Bulgarians called Grekomans did even more funny things. Guess, where were they from? LOL
.
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 12:02
also one more addition...
In places were the Attic language became popular but the population was not Greek, you can see that their texts have strange accents. Those accents show that the speakers couldn't speak Greek natively. You can also see errors but that is not that common. The accents play a major role in Attic cause they tell you everything about the breathing and the tone of the speaker. ;)

As you can imagine I read many inscription from Macedonia. I look for new additions @ Ohios Universitys archive often. The Macedonians, originally write their first inscriptions in Doric and they have an Aeolian influence as well. Kinda strange to adopt a difficult dialect instead of attic directly. And ofcourse comparing their texts with greek texts from foreign nations make it even more clear. You have no errors and no strange accents showing that they spoke non-natively. I think this is the most important factor for a linguist.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 12:05
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by Flipper

  And I would definetely not name my kids for United Kindom LOL

The last is a funny statement but there were women in Macedonia named Hellas lol. I mean, even in Greece today it is extremelly rare to find a girl named Hellada or Hellen. They would eather be children of a Pagan father or I don't know what.
 
Well, as far as I know Bulgarians called Grekomans did even more funny things. Guess, where were they from? LOL


Grekomani is a name given. I know some so yeah, i know the story (maybe i should invite some on this forum since they speak both our languages). ;) And this is happening the last 100 years after many many many many many events and complex balkan conflicts.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 15:49
Are there many words that exist in Macedonian dialect (or language) and do not exist in other Greek dialects? And also long time ago I asked whether those words that are Macedonian (from Akritas' list) existed in separate inscriptions or they were mixed in inscriptions with Greek texts. If they are mixed what is the proportion between those words and "classical" or "clearly greek words"? I mean approximately... I didn't get any answer, is it because it is wierd to somebody?  Smile
.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 19:56
"Look! Can you see? This is what Filotas came to, that he is discusted by his own language? ... But no, let him speak as he wishes, and you remind yourselfs that he has seperated himself equaly from our custums and language."^*
 
^ Quintus Curtius Rufus, "De Rebus Gestis Alexandri Macedonis", VI,10.
* My own loose translation... sorry again
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 19:58
Originally posted by Anton

Are there many words that exist in Macedonian dialect (or language) and do not exist in other Greek dialects? And also long time ago I asked whether those words that are Macedonian (from Akritas' list) existed in separate inscriptions or they were mixed in inscriptions with Greek texts. If they are mixed what is the proportion between those words and "classical" or "clearly greek words"? I mean approximately... I didn't get any answer, is it because it is wierd to somebody?  Smile
 
There is about 50 mentioned in just one dictionary... ill have a look and tell you who its by. (ancient by the way)
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 20:28
OMG...Look, there is no "db"-sounds in the ancient macedonian language cause it is simply not slavic.

The word first of all is Κλειται (Klite) and not Kledon. In attic it is Kleito -s which means: famous, magnificent or excellent.

On a free traslation this would become a "magnificent gift" but in this case we could also to say "a gift for the excellency".

Other similar composite words are "Κλειταίχμη" (a type of spear), "Κύκλειται" (surrounded) and "Συνκέκλειται" (surrounded in non attic dialects). You also have names like Κλειτόμαχος (Excellent fighter) and Κλειταινετος.

Now doesn't it make sense?
[/QUOTE]
This is the word from the dictionary of Hesilij(this is in macedonian, anton or if anyone can tell me what the english transcript is, that'll be great)


Edited by theMacedonian2 - 15-Dec-2006 at 20:37
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 20:36

Im not implying that the ancient Macedonians used slavic language, but I imply that they DID NOT use a Greek Language...

I also belive that slavic language is the closest to an ancient language that belonged to a peoples that originated from the balkans and asia minor... and that Macedonian, Epiran and Thrakian languages wore derivates from it.

But this isn the place I belive to mention the Palazgians.

As anton said "Dar" is mentioned in all slavic languages. I belive that Russians or Polish would not have borrowed such a basic word from the ancient Greeks. Unless ofcorse you give me a theory of how something so basic could reach and be used by the russians. Because if we wore talking about some scientific term, a tool a wepeon then ok, it makes scence, but if u say that something so everyday got imported then... it sounds a bit funny.

Back to Top
Brainstorm View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 407
  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 01:33
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

As anton said "Dar" is mentioned in all slavic languages. I belive that Russians or Polish would not have borrowed such a basic word from the ancient Greeks. Unless ofcorse you give me a theory of how something so basic could reach and be used by the russians. Because if we wore talking about some scientific term, a tool a wepeon then ok, it makes scence, but if u say that something so everyday got imported then... it sounds a bit funny.



Did you see any DAR written on artifact found in Macedonia?? Stern Smile
I saw only ΔΩΡΟΝ.
So,since you believe that it would be funny this word to be borrowed because it was so basic...then you believe Macedonians didn't borrow it from Greeks.It was their word too.
Isn't ? Smile
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 01:45
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

This is the word from the dictionary of Hesilij(this is in macedonian, anton or if anyone can tell me what the english transcript is, that'll be great)


I will report this post for falsification. It is certainly not made by a Greek speeker LOL First it is all errors.

1) there is no ζ ending in any Greek word, only -s "ς".
2) Γλώσσα with Omega not Omicron.
3) The word is the composite word ΚΛΕΙΤΑΙΔΩΡΟΝ not ΚΛΗΔΟΝ.

You've just fallen into my eyes, that is all I can say.


Edited by Flipper - 16-Dec-2006 at 02:31


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 01:49
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

Im not implying that the ancient Macedonians used slavic language, but I imply that they DID NOT use a Greek Language...

I also belive that slavic language is the closest to an ancient language that belonged to a peoples that originated from the balkans and asia minor... and that Macedonian, Epiran and Thrakian languages wore derivates from it.

But this isn the place I belive to mention the Palazgians.

As anton said "Dar" is mentioned in all slavic languages. I belive that Russians or Polish would not have borrowed such a basic word from the ancient Greeks. Unless ofcorse you give me a theory of how something so basic could reach and be used by the russians. Because if we wore talking about some scientific term, a tool a wepeon then ok, it makes scence, but if u say that something so everyday got imported then... it sounds a bit funny.



You've just lost it.

The fact that it is an ISO language characterized as Greek language means that the majority of experts agree it is. And tell me a good reason why Greeks can read Macedonian inscriptions, even those before they adopted attic?


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 01:59
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

"Look! Can you see? This is what Filotas came to, that he is discusted by his own language? ... But no, let him speak as he wishes, and you remind yourselfs that he has seperated himself equaly from our custums and language."^*
 
^ Quintus Curtius Rufus, "De Rebus Gestis Alexandri Macedonis", VI,10.
* My own loose translation... sorry again


If you had actually read the original text and not copy pasted from greekaregypsieslonglivefyrom.com you would see this:

Praeter Macedones plerique adsunt, quos facilius quae dicam percepturos arbitror, si eadem lingua fuero usus qua tu egisti; non ob aliud, credo, quam ut oratio tua intelligi posset a pluribus

He clearly sais "who will understand me MORE EASILY if I speak in the language you have spoken for the same reason".

ANd yeah, if I was personaly were amongst Cretans, Cypriots or Pontians I would understand more easyly if the spoke attic greek rather than their local tongue. Now, Akritas has given seminars on this filotas thing so do not start over again.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 02:02
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

"Look! Can you see? This is what Filotas came to,that he is discusted by his own language? ... But no, let him speak as he wishes, and you remind yourselfs that he has seperated himself equaly from our custums and language."^*


^ Quintus Curtius Rufus, "De Rebus Gestis Alexandri Macedonis", VI,10.

* My own loose translation... sorry again

I have already answer in this claim in page 9. Dont make circles.

Originally posted by theMacedonian2

There is about 50 mentioned in just one dictionary... ill have a look and tell you who its by. (ancient by the way )


I had make analysis all of these Macedonian words.If you have Hsychios lexikon that mention the KLHTOS word scanned and bring to us please..


   
    

Edited by akritas - 16-Dec-2006 at 02:03
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 02:06
Originally posted by Anton

Are there many words that exist in Macedonian dialect (or language) and do not exist in other Greek dialects? And also long time ago I asked whether those words that are Macedonian (from Akritas' list) existed in separate inscriptions or they were mixed in inscriptions with Greek texts. If they are mixed what is the proportion between those words and "classical" or "clearly greek words"? I mean approximately... I didn't get any answer, is it because it is wierd to somebody?  Smile


Yes Anton there is a list mentioned in an ancient lexicon. This lexicon is though a list a words used localy in macedonia and not in other places. It is not a lexicon on the macedonian language. Nowadays, I could find you more words in certain dialects that are used, that do not exist in Koine. I guess you have the same thing in northern and southern bulgaria don't you?

In the Tsakonian language (the Doric spartan language) we still have a big list of different words. I have a lexicon myself on special tsakonian words.

Considering that there are over 7000 available inscirptions on the net, some ten thousands available in libraries and archeological facilities, containing a vast amount of words, this list you mention is ofcourse just a small peace.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 04:17
Originally posted by Brainstorm

Originally posted by theMacedonian2

As anton said "Dar" is mentioned in all slavic languages. I belive that Russians or Polish would not have borrowed such a basic word from the ancient Greeks. Unless ofcorse you give me a theory of how something so basic could reach and be used by the russians. Because if we wore talking about some scientific term, a tool a wepeon then ok, it makes scence, but if u say that something so everyday got imported then... it sounds a bit funny.



Did you see any DAR written on artifact found in Macedonia?? Stern Smile
I saw only ΔΩΡΟΝ.
So,since you believe that it would be funny this word to be borrowed because it was so basic...then you believe Macedonians didn't borrow it from Greeks.It was their word too.
Isn't ? Smile
 
No I only said that the word belonged to someone that lived in the balkans log before all the rest came (or derived from).
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 04:18

I will report this post for falsification. It is certainly not made by a Greek speeker LOL First it is all errors.

1) there is no ζ ending in any Greek word, only -s "ς".
2) Γλώσσα with Omega not Omicron.
3) The word is the composite word ΚΛΕΙΤΑΙΔΩΡΟΝ not ΚΛΗΔΟΝ.

You've just fallen into my eyes, that is all I can say.
 
The errors are my mistake, I don't know greek but I tried to copy it as best as i could...
 
Sorry for any inconvenience but falsification was not my intention.


Edited by theMacedonian2 - 16-Dec-2006 at 04:49
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 04:47
Explain to me the antropology of the word
 
Phoinikos...(Macedonian flag for commencing an attack)
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 07:23
Originally posted by Brainstorm


Did you see any DAR written on artifact found in Macedonia?? Stern Smile
I saw only ΔΩΡΟΝ.
So,since you believe that it would be funny this word to be borrowed because it was so basic...then you believe Macedonians didn't borrow it from Greeks.It was their word too.
Isn't ? Smile
 
Brainstorm, I am not linguist but as far as I know  "a" easely may convert to "o" and vice versa. BTW, what does first word (prior to doron) mean? 
.
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 16:05
Originally posted by Anton

[QUOTE=Brainstorm]

BTW, what does first word (prior to doron) mean? 


Anton this is omega not O. It has different uses in Greek even though they sound both like an O.

I posted a complete etymology of the word ΚΛΕΙΤΑΙ and other forms on page 10.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 9101112>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.234 seconds.