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Word "Aryan" is priced becoz of its Indic(Hindu)

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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Word "Aryan" is priced becoz of its Indic(Hindu)
    Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 08:37
Originally posted by varma

And the term "Arya" is first to be found in the Rig Veda, and the meaning of it is Respectable, honourable or of noble qualities and nothing else.

incorrect, Arya was first appeared in Central Asia befor the immigration to India and Iran.
And yes we know all that Arya is not a race, only a name. we disscussed this zilion times befor. So you say nothing new, search for topics befor you post. 
To all the Iranains who are in so much illusion that Iran influenced vietnam, combodia, Korea and other nations of the World stop fooling yourselves...
Why do you allege we Iranians are ultranationalists? only 3 posts here and soon you are badmouthing Iranians, a very bad startDead
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 09:06

Varma- If your goal is to start a flame war, go somewhere else.  If you are indeed interested in discussing origins, first do as Maziar suggests and research previous posts. Also, you might readjust attitude towards non Hindu, we try to show each other a certain degree of mutual respect.  Smile  

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 09:11
Maziar

    You have said that "Arya" first appeared in Central Asia before the immigration to India and Iran, is that what u wanted to say and if it is so are u talking about any engravings of the word Arya or any literature that mentios the  word  "Arya".
   Please give me the source  "about the first use of the term "Arya". According to me it is in the Rig Veda and it is the widely accepted. Give me link which says otherwise...

        Really I am not badmouthing the Iranians, I am simply outraged about what I have read, some posters in this forum are claiming that Iraninas have influenced as far as Vietnam, Korea, Japan and if any of these people read they will laugh at and create a bad impression of Iraninas, I didnt found anyone questioning their asserations probably digesting as they are Iraninas....
       First the  assumption of historians is  Aryan Invasion, Now becoz of lack of proof of any sort of Invasion the historians falled back to Aryan Migraton theory and scholars raising some serious doubts about even the Migration theroy as it is no supported on some  basic things...
    
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 09:15
Hey I am sorry for that if it hurt...sorry
  
       It will be very helpfull if the so called person who claimed that Iranians influenced as far as Korea, Japan, Veitnam...please provide me link a credible link that is accepted by scholars
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 09:53
Varma, we all can be outraged about what we read or what we hear. But we try to calm and we try to show each other a certain degree of mutual respect, as Red Clay said.
For the sources, as i said befor search the forum and you will see many topics about aryans, so i think there is no need to provide a source.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 10:19
Originally posted by red clay

Varma- If your goal is to start a flame war, go somewhere else.  If you are indeed interested in discussing origins, first do as Maziar suggests and research previous posts. Also, you might readjust attitude towards non Hindu, we try to show each other a certain degree of mutual respect.  Smile  

 
I add my voice to red clay's. Varma u need som karma.LOL
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 11:31
What I read from the above post only confirms my doubt about the lack of evidence that people are floating in this forum about the Influecnes of Iran around the World
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 17:41
And what i read from your above post confirms my accurasy about your contentiousness. (sorry to say that)
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 03:32
Verma
 
can you provide links and quotes from this forum where Iranians taking credit of Indian culture.
 
because i dont remember reading any.
 
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 19:20
The word Aryan is priced becouse of it hindu(indic)?????
 
The word Aryan, is our tribal name if you like, to make it as simple as possiable for you to understand.
At the beginning they were all one, about 4000 years ago they divided into two groups, half went into India and mixed with the Dravidians, the habitants of the Indian sub continent. The Dravidians who look like aboriginals from Australia mixing with the caucasian looking Aryans, the result being the way Indians look today. The name Aryan only survived amongst the Indian as more of the philosophical and spiritual term then anything else.
The other half went into Iran ( medes, Persians and Parthians ) and some stayed in the steppes ( Scythians who divided into few other groupes such as: Cimmerians, Sarmatians, Alans, Roxolanis, and Jazyges ).
 
comparing the Rig Vede to Avesta would explain the division.
Divas are gods in Rig Veda, in Avesta Divas (Divs in Persian) became Demons and Ahura Mazda the lord of wisdom has been mentiond as the only true god.
And also has been mentioned that the Aryanem vaeja was the original homeland of the Aryans, which was the south of Aral sea modern day Turkmenistan.
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 23:10
What is this fascination that everyone (from west to east) has with the Aryans, I'm getting sick of this.
 
Why can't you leave us and our ancestors in peace. Really is nothing special, just let us be who we are.
 
It's enough not being able to say you're an Aryan in the west, becouse in the west everyone thinks an Aryan is suppose to be a Nordic Blond hair Blue eye, and the original Persians were all nordic, now we have mr India saying that the original Persians were Indians. Is this a joke????? becouse this is the first time I'm hearing of this. you seriously must be kidding. That's all it is, you just want to start a flame war.
 
What is this world coming to. I wish everybody would drop it by now.


Edited by Iranduxt - 29-Jun-2006 at 00:23
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 03:23
         Rig Veda and Avesta are not to be compared becoz of their different time frames of their composition.
         Avesta mentions where the Iranians came from but Rig Veda doesnt mention any, and more importantly it relates to the geographical areas of India as their original home...
        And it is a fact that Rig Veda is the oldest of Composition bewtween the Avesta and Rig Veda..
        Well the Aryanem vaeja could be anywhere. On what basis have u placed the Aryanem Vaeja in the south of the Aral Sea...Does the Avesta gives the description of the geography of the aryanem Vaeja....
         Iranians came from somewhere else, now that is true by your own citation of the Avesta.  But the second part of your assertion that another branch further migrated into India and mixed with Dravidians is worng becoz their is no proof of such migration anywhere in the Vedas.
       This is pure specualtion that the word Aryan has survived in India as pure philosophical and spiritual terms. It from the very begining in Indian concious didnt refer an particualr race or people. "Arya" means noble and nothing from the vry begining.
       Various scholars have various opinions about the locationof Aryanem Vaejo, the central asian Republics, Afhanisthan, and Kashmir...
        Among the three of the options to myknowledge Kashir had very rich 5000 year old culture and civilization and it was an ancient seat of vedic learning which is far more superior than the those that can be found in Central asia or Afghanistan.
       Can kashmir be a possible place......
      
    
        
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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 03:25
I want to comment about the Generalisations users are making.
I don't agree with "VERMA'S" view of India being the only source of everthing Aryan.  I refute that completely. I'm not going to even go into it.
But i don't agree with the counter argument of "Irandux" either. He says 
"The Aryans in India mixed with the Dravidians who look like aborginal Austrailians, the result being the way Indians look today"  and then "the name Aryan survives in India as a spirtual term only". 
Well "Irandux" India has a population of 1 billion, with a lot of diverse ethnicities, languages, there is no one Indian look, believe me. The complexions and features  are very diverse.
You say "leave you and your ancestors in peace" come on if India has Dravidians, do you think that Arabs, and Mongolians to name but a few, never settled in Iran. They say Genghis Khan has 14 million descendents in central asia, they must be settled somewhere.
You both seem to want to claim being "true Aryans" which is pointless, and make generalisations from different ends of the spectrum.  
Vedam
 
 
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 06:57
varma, It seems like you only know what you want to know and you've made up your mind about it.
 
Like Maziar said, this has been disscussed so many times befor in this forum.
so search the forum you might learn something.


Edited by Iranduxt - 29-Jun-2006 at 07:24
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 07:23
vedem, my nick name Irandoxt is an iranian name meaning daughter of Iran. I'm not a he.
 
I know what Indians look like, I have been to India when I was a kid and I have many distant families who live there.


Edited by Iranduxt - 29-Jun-2006 at 07:26
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 07:26
    No I havent made up my mind I'll try to provide various evidences regarding the existence of Indian rulers and their influence to the west of India aropund the areas of Iran, Syria etc....
     Vedam, u have to conclude from the information in the Avesta that Aryans were originallyfrom "Aryanam Vaejo". That really confirms the bit that Aryan were one who settled in Iran...Regarding where they come from ......Debate with the facts the best possible thing and I dont think the best possibl;e and viable thing lies in the central asian mountains and afghanisthan if u dont consider the aryan to be nomads( and nomads are not given the title of Noble)...

The presence of Indian descdents in and aroud Syria ::
           Does anybody know about Mittanis. The Mittani kings names are  just not linguistic similarities becoz Tushrattha(Dasaratha) is the name of the father of the legendary indian Hero Rama.
           This is the exact name so their doesnt arise any doubt that it is just linguistic similarity, and moreover this is possible only when they are decendants of Indinas that they would like to honour their ancestory by naming their children

Extract from Wikki


           

Some theonyms, proper names and other terminology of the Mitanni exhibit an Indo-Aryan superstrate, suggesting that an Indo-Aryan elite imposed itself over the Hurrian population in the course of the Indo-Aryan expansion. In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni, the deities Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatya (Ashvins) are invoked. Kikkuli's horse training text includes technical terms such as aika (eka, one), tera (tri, three), panza (pancha, five), satta (sapta, seven), na (nava, nine), vartana (vartana, round). Another text has babru (babhru, brown), parita (palita, grey), and pinkara (pingala, red). Their chief festival was the celebration of the solstice (vishuva) which was common in most cultures in the ancient world. The Mitanni warriors were called marya, the term for warrior in Sanskrit as well.

Sanskritic interpretations of Mitanni royal names render Shuttarna as Sutarna ("good sun"), Baratarna as Paratarna ("great sun"), Parsatatar as Parashukshatra ("ruler with axe"), Saustatar as Saukshatra ("son of Sukshatra, the good ruler"), Artatama as "most righteous", Tushratta as Dasharatha ("having ten chariots"?), and, finally, Mattivaza as Mativaja ("whose wealth is prayer"). Some scholars believe that not only the kings had Indo-Aryan names; a large number of other names resembling Sanskrit have been unearthed in records from the area.

It has been widely conjectured that this original Mitanni aristocracy who bore Indo-Aryan names, had emigrated from the north and imposed themselves upon the indigenous Hurrians of Syria who were not Indo-Aryan, although historical clues are scarce.
   I'll give more info in the due course and if anybody would like to rubbish it plez ur welcome with valid points
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 07:40
all you saying only suggest that the Aryans were one and divided into two, half went to india and the other half went into Iran and some stayed in the steppes. you are just twisting the same thing into your liking. Everything that you mentioned is the same with Avestan.
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by Iranduxt

vedem, my nick name Irandoxt is an iranian name meaning daughter of Iran. I'm not a he.
 
 
So your name is also Irandokht Smile, you use the X as a synonyme for "kh", i thought what Iranduxt means, now i know.
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 09:21
yeh, but I've misspelt it, instead of O I wrote U, I been wanting to correct it but didn't know how.
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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 09:31
Originally posted by Iranduxt

yeh, but I've misspelt it, instead of O I wrote U, I been wanting to correct it but didn't know how.


I think if you ask one of the Administrators nicely they might help you with that.
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