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Word "Aryan" is priced becoz of its Indic(Hindu)

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  Quote Boreasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Word "Aryan" is priced becoz of its Indic(Hindu)
    Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 12:43
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/9/86/abstract

Edited by Boreasi - 15-Dec-2008 at 12:44
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  Quote indian tamil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2008 at 16:20
aryan ,
history has many puzzles and riddles which are not explored or explained properly
many one indicates the word aryan to a racial identity , but it doesnt
 
just takes this case
 
tamil ,dravidian language and pasthun language similiarities
 
ar- farmer(pasthun) ar(ploughing instrument - tamil)
 
ar - noble(pasthun) ar(rare - tamil, as noble one posses only rare qualities i.e noble ones rare in number, also in tamil ar means special)
 
now take the word
 
aryan - ariyan
 
ar - rare , special (tamil)
i - respectable(tamil)
an - the end case as like india- indian
 
so ariyan in tamil also meant noble man
just consider tamil is a dravidian language .still even in this language also, the words are meant the same. so ariyan is not racial indication.
 
thats why pointed out that there are still many puzzles and riddles in the history which are not yet explored or not properly explained
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 17:06

I hate to ask but cite.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 16:41
The word Arya appeared 1000 years before it was used in Persia
 
it never was used in central asia or europe
 
it is exclusive to India and Persia
 
 
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  Quote Odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2008 at 02:23
The book on late Proto-Indo-European grammar and vocabulary I am studying says that the Indo-Iranian term "aryas" comes from the Late PIE term *alienos, meaning "foreigner and host."

ghosti-, concerned mutual obligations between people and between
worshipers and gods, and from which guest and host are derived.

Cf. also alieno-, foreigner and host, in Ind.-Ira. "arya-".


Edited by Odin - 22-Jun-2008 at 02:25
"Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now."

-Arnold J. Toynbee
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 06:46
Did the ancient Greeks tell a story of or parallel to that of Gilgamesh or Jamsheed?
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 05:19
What's the status of Brahman's in India, today? How many of them are there? And, how would one go about getting in touch with them?

Edited by mojobadshah - 17-Feb-2008 at 05:22
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2007 at 03:30
I would point out that that the Rg Veda speaks of the "tribes of Arya" and that northern India was known as Aryavarta, "abode of the Arya". 
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  Quote Ardeshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 20:03
aryans have nothing to do with india. who started this weird thread and why is it going on for so long????
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2007 at 10:46
In book called "Music and the Mind" the Jats are described as an ethnic group of gypsies from Egypt that are musicians, but barbers by profession, that live in Afghanistan.
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2007 at 06:09
iran has nothing to do with jats. Most people outside india dont even know or care about jat
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2007 at 05:45
Does Iran have any history of Jats. In Mahabharat it is mentioned that Meds (having their kingdom in beyond Gandhara in easter Iran ) & jats (having their kingdom South of Gandhara) fought with each other all the time. Tired of fighting they both went Duryodhana for reconciliation., who asked both of them to rule their countries under the direction of his sister. They both did so. Later in the war, Meds sided with Duryodhan, while the jats sided with Pandav. Duryodhan lost the war, So did the meds. After the war they migrated further west. The jats were on the winning side so they stayed where they were & further acquired some western territories of meds.


I thought the jats were gypsies from Egypt that settled in Afghanistan?
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2007 at 09:58
Refresh my memory... Why is it that historians, generally, regard, Zarathustra, as having, really, lived. Whereas, the contrary is contended by historians when it comes to Jesus Christ? What about Buddha, and, Mohammad... do historians, generally, agree that these figures lived or is the regard for them comparable to Jesus Christ?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 12:57
I just noticed the words Kura, Kuru, Kav, Ku mentioned in the post above. My confusion is that these words are names of old ruling families in ancient Indian history (I dont know about the Persian or other history, I am only saying about Indian history) The Kurus / Kuras /  Kavrav / Kaurav (as variously called) fought against the Pandus in Mahabharat.

Are the two histories (Indian & Persian) talking about the same people or are there different Kuru / Kura people ?

W.Skalmowski has discussed the possible connection between Old Persian name Kurru and Old Indian name kuru in details and it is the name of legendary king who according to Mahabharata ruled over eponymous nation of Kuravah. But remember that we are discussing only possible Aryan root kr/kar(to do /to accomplish) and the hypothesis is that Old Persian kuru is a borrowing from Old Indian language .



Edited by Babak - 18-Nov-2007 at 13:00
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 21:04

Elam, like Babylonia had periods in which there were separate Elamite states.  We find Elamite inscriptions beyond the borders of Anshan itself, hence nothing suggests that most of these states were other than Elamite in 691 BC. 
 
Yes we have archaeological evidence from tale malayan
and Marv Dash that long before 691 BC a complex amalgam of Persian and Elamite culture existed in addition to that we have inscription from Ashurbanipal
about Cyrus I as king of Parsumas.

Ram Hormuz region was an important Elamite population centre from the last centuries of the second millennium through the first half of the first millennium B.C, settlement in the area flourished at a time when settlement in the Kur River Basin declined(Miroschedji 1981c;1985).

In southeaster part of Khuzestan archaeological excavation in Arjan indicates that a mixture of stylish traditions(Babylonian-Assyrian, Elamite, Iranian) existed and Stronach suggested that the Persians moved from Fars into Khuzestan through the Bakhtiari mountains then middle through Neo Elamite settlement at Bormi, Ghazir may have provided possibility of encounters of the Iranians with the urban tradition of the lowland Elamites and findings at Arjan tomb indicates existence of a complex cultural interactions.(E.Carter Bridging the gaps between the Elamites and the Persians in southeastern Khuzestan pp,65-95 in Achaemenid history VIII).

Miroschedji proposed a model concerning arrival of Persians in Fars and for transition from Elamite to Achaemenid rule: The first stage a dominated Elamite rule over an Elamite population and during later stages c 1000 B.C , Persians appeared in the area and   an independent Persian rule was established in the area and a mixed population of Elamite and Persians existed. And third and fourth stage was about rule of Cyrus II and Darius I.

The population of Malyan reached a maximum in nineteenth century B.C and the population began to decline after 1900 B.C and cultural unity of the region was changed.

Archaeological evidence shows that uniformity of Kaftari ceramics on all occupied site was modified and in west Qala-Middle Elamite ceramics and in east Shoga Teimuran ceramics appeared.

W.M Sumner have examined archaeological evidence for cultural continuity in the Marv Dash and concluded that evidence for settlement continuity from end of Kaftari period(c. 1600 B.C) up to the establishment of Achaemenid settlement is quite strong but implies an earlier arrival of the Persians than previously contemplated and they arrived to the valley from north and east and this model is consistent with model suggested by Miroschedji(W.M Sumner Archaeological measures of cultural continuity and the arrival of the Persians in Fars in Achaemenid History VIII pp 97-105).



Edited by Babak - 15-Nov-2007 at 21:06
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2007 at 06:35
Interesting, nevertheless it would not be impossible if "Median" raids of Indo-Aryans into Mesopotamia already started around 1500 BC or even somewhat earlier. Median was the most usual name for Iranics. However there is still much difference if this term was already used in 3000 BC.
 
It needs to be pointed out that:
 
1.  The Medes were the last of the peoples mentioned above to be given that appellation.
 
2.  The Mesopotamians already knew the Medes as "Medes" (Akkadian, Madai for 200 years before they were called umman Manda.
 
Hence, nothing suggests that the most ancient references to the "Manda host" were Medes.  Some of the references suggest that they originated in Anatolia or were at least encountered near Anatolia in the 3rd and 2nd millennia BC.

Other points however would speak for a connection between Madras and Mada, the Medians were most likely known to the Indian side when they split up around 1500 BC.
 
We know the split already occurred before 1500 BC, since we have the names of Mitannian kings going back to about 1550 BC.  Studies of words originating among the Mitanni show that the Indo-Iranian element in the population were already speaking an Indo-Aryan language more primitive than Vedic Sanskrit.  It is thus postulated that the Indo-Aryans were in Iran before the Iranians.  One branch split off from the main branch by about 1600 BC and migrated to Mesopotamia where they became the ruling element of the Mitanni while the main group remained in eastern Iran and northern India.  The Iranians (or proto-Iranians) were in central Asia (Andronovian Complex, c. 2200-1000 BC) and began to expand southward into Iran by about 1400 BC (Tazagabyab and other Andronovian-derived cultures).  These supplanted the Indo-Aryans in eastern Iran (earliest place-names in eastern Iran show Indo-Aryan origin, not Iranian).  By about this date, the Iranian Iron Age began south of the Caspian Sea (western Iranians/proto-Medes?).  It is surmised that the western and eastern "split" of the Iranic languages took place by about 1500 BC.  The later Assyrian inscriptions identified Median populations all the way to "Mt. Bikni" which some identify with Demavend.
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  Quote Artabanos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2007 at 15:32
Interesting, nevertheless it would not be impossible if "Median" raids of Indo-Aryans into Mesopotamia already started around 1500 BC or even somewhat earlier. Median was the most usual name for Iranics. However there is still much difference if this term was already used in 3000 BC.

Other points however would speak for a connection between Madras and Mada, the Medians were most likely known to the Indian side when they split up around 1500 BC.
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 02:47
"Umman Manda" was an Akkadian appellation for any foreign horde.  It goes back to the 3rd Millennium BC, when there were obviously no Medes.  It translates to "the Manda host".  It had been applied to such diverse peoples as the Gutians, Lullubi, Hurrians, Scythians, and Cimmerians, as well as the Medes.  This term signified the archetyped "barbarian". 
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  Quote Artabanos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 00:06
In the Cyrus cylinder the Medes are called Umman-Manda. It was likely written by a Babylonian, but still there seem to be several variants of "Mede".
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2007 at 19:47

I don't think that the Madras of the Mahabharata were "Medes".  It may be that the ancient Madras originated outside of India, some placing them in Bactria, but not only does their name disagree with that of Iranic Mada, and Semitic Madai, but their western Iranic tongue would have probably developed prior to the 10th century BC.  Parthian itself, to the east of the historic Medes is considered a western Iranic tongue. 

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