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Origins of the name "Istanbul"
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Komnenos View Drop Down
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Origins of the name "Istanbul"
    Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 13:50
If somebody would give me just 1 Euro for everytime this has been discussed on AE, I could go on holiday to blooming Istanbul/Konstantinople/Byzance or what ever it's called this summer.
Wake me up, if something new comes out of this.
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Posts: 965 		  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 16:43
too many city names in Anatolia(ewen the name of anatolia) greek.
but itsnt a big deal. ewen the names were chineese it wouldnt change the owners of the cities. 
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Posts: 4262 		  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 18:15
Apparently, this is a never ending story - repeating itself endlessly.
 
So I thought back on the emotions I had visiting this great city almost 40 years ago, and as usual - I started humming a few songs reflecting that mood...
Here they are:
 
In the Mood
Slow Boat to China
Tango Jealousy
Anna Luenda
Nobody knows the trouble I've Seen
Blue Moon
Unchained Melody
Last Dance
 
There you go - 8 great songs to define a great city. What more can Turks or Greeks ask for?
Why should anyone define the city this way?
Well - this definition is as good as anything that noone can agree on - specially if you read the first letters of the songs vertically.
 
Turks and Greeks - feel free to adapt this new definition - free of charge.Wink

And for future reference - this is now the official AE definition - no need to argue anymore on this issue here on AE, thank you. Smile
 
 
  
 
 


Edited by Northman - 22-Jun-2006 at 18:16
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Posts: 370 		  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 20:07
Originally posted by erkut

too many city names in Anatolia(ewen the name of anatolia) greek.
but itsnt a big deal. ewen the names were chineese it wouldnt change the owners of the cities. 
 
Nobody tries to give nationalistic extensions to this subject.. Don't worry..
 
 
"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2006 at 04:20
Constantinople was not the only city which was conquered by Ottomans in the 13-14th centuries and they changed its name, near Constantinople there was the large Byzantine city of Dorylaeum which was also conquered by Ottomans in the same years and they changed its name to "Eskisehir", I think Greeks referred to this city "eis tin Sehir" Wink (Sehir/Shahr means City in the Persian language and there are several cities in Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikstan, ... with this suffix)!
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Posts: 370 		  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2006 at 13:53

Cyrus,

this s completely irrelevant with the topic. We are talking about the capital of the Empire which was a specific case.
 
Generalizations don't add anything...
"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM
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Posts: 316 		  Quote Bashibozuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2006 at 05:33
almost all of our  large cities have greek name.
 
I am not sure how many times I should repeat myself to end the total ignorance, but I'll unfortunately write it again. None of the city names in Turkish except three Pontian ones and Istanbul are derivates of any Greek word. And almost all of those Pontian cities with the colony cities in coastal regions of Aegean were either renamed by Greeks or corruption of native names. I am not to make a list to enlighten your darkness now but if you ask me the origins of any city names I'll try to answer it for you...
 
Ankara- Ancyra (Phrygian)
 
İzmir- Smurnu (Luvian)
 
Bursa- Prussa (Bythnian)
 
Konya- Ikunia (Luvian/Hittite)
 
Adana- Uru Adaniya (Luvian/Hittite)
 
Kayseri/Mazaka- Mazaka (Hittite)
 
Sinop- Sinuva (Palaic/Paphlagonian- Luvian)
 
etc.
 
And that "eis stan thing" doesn't make any sense, and it is total non-sense. Turks had many relations with the Romans long before 1453 which you claim is the date when they saw the "roadsign".LOL Gokturks for example, sent massingers to Istanbul in the early 6th century, Avars, Oguz Turks settled in Byzantine regions in 8th and 9th centuries. Do you think they suddenly ended up with renaming the ciy according to a wooden roadsign when they were on the way to conquer?Big smile 
 
The truth is, originally Turkish names don't begin with "s", that's why we call "Stanbul" as "Istanbul", Spain as "Ispanya" or Scotland as "Iskochya". Do you believe we also renamed these countres on the way to Vienna, according to a signboard?LOL
 
 


Edited by Bashibozuk - 26-Jun-2006 at 05:50
Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.
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Posts: 370 		  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2006 at 07:41

Nice try! Ermm
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Posts: 269 		  Quote violentjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 07:48
City was called Islambull and not Istanbul
Many called it Konstantinople untill 1924 and Attaturk reforms

Later it was changed from Islambul to Istanbul
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 09:59
Originally posted by Bashibozuk

 
And that "eis stan thing" doesn't make any sense, and it is total non-sense. Turks had many relations with the Romans long before 1453 which you claim is the date when they saw the "roadsign".LOL Gokturks for example, sent massingers to Istanbul in the early 6th century, Avars, Oguz Turks settled in Byzantine regions in 8th and 9th centuries. Do you think they suddenly ended up with renaming the ciy according to a wooden roadsign when they were on the way to conquer?Big smile 
 
The truth is, originally Turkish names don't begin with "s", that's why we call "Stanbul" as "Istanbul", Spain as "Ispanya" or Scotland as "Iskochya". Do you believe we also renamed these countres on the way to Vienna, according to a signboard?LOL 
 
i think so too, Constantinople's name is known by turks for hunderds of years before they conquer it, it makes no sense that they called it mistakenly by simply hearing "eis stan pole',
 
so as Cyrus mentioned Istanbul was called Istanah, as far as i know turkish rulers of Egypt call it Istanah.
 
and the words Istan  like PakIstan and bul as in Kabul makes more sense than the Greek theory.
 
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Posts: 694 		  Quote Digenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 11:20
@Bashibozuk

What's your etymological theory for "Istanbul" then?

Was it an ancient Thracian city maybe named similar?LOL
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Posts: 316 		  Quote Bashibozuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 13:51
No, actually the theory of Cyrus makes much more sense than a roadsign theory of a wacko. So the name of the city is proably loaned, or derived from Persian.
Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.
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Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 17:37
In English it makes sense (Istanbul - pakISTAn and kaBUL) but, in Persian, does the word for Pakistan end in ISTAN and word Kabul end in BUL?
    

Edited by mamikon - 28-Jun-2006 at 17:37
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Posts: 370 		  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 19:10

The eastern world (Arabs, Persians) knew this name from the contact with the Byzantines that's how Turks learned it too before the conquest.
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Posts: 740 		  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 04:57
Originally posted by violentjack

City was called Islambull and not Istanbul
Many called it Konstantinople untill 1924 and Attaturk reforms

Later it was changed from Islambul to Istanbul
 
This is correct, the city was known as "Islambul" and its official name was "Konstantaniyye" a corrupt form of the Greek name for the city.
 
Many have simply ignored Violent Jack's reply simply because it would damage both the Greek and Persian theories.
 
Islambul in Turkish is two words put together: "Islam" and "bul"=eng."find". Thus an English translation would be "Find Islam".
 
Whether true or not it goes to show how easy it is to pick out words, make them sound like a certain language and claim the part of the glory of Istanbul as Greek/Persian.
 
Although one must add that in Cyrus's initial post he even admits to the fact of it being called "Islambul" and is also in the page that he uploaded.
For all those unfamiliar with the Arabic script i have circuled the name "Islambul"


Edited by OSMANLI - 29-Jun-2006 at 05:04
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 05:02
Islambul was only  one  name of istanbul.But how can  you find islam at istanbul  before 1453.
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Posts: 370 		  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 05:25
Originally posted by OSMANLI

Whether true or not it goes to show how easy it is to pick out words, make them sound like a certain language and claim the part of the glory of Istanbul as Greek/Persian.
 
Don't get paniced... this Istanbul is your creation don't worry... It has nothing to do with the name...
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Posts: 740 		  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 11:00
Originally posted by Mortaza

Islambul was only  one  name of istanbul.But how can  you find islam at istanbul  before 1453.
 
True, the name Istanbul/Islambul was a name used under Turkish rule.
 
The only way to trully find the truth is by finding pre-1453 Ottoman/Turkic  sources showing the name of the city. But even then one must take into account whether it is used in a formal or informal way eg. Ottoman formal: Konstantaniyye, informal; istanbul.
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 14:09
And almost all of those Pontian cities with the colony cities in coastal regions of Aegean were either renamed by Greeks or corruption of native names.
 
There were no major cities of another civilization in the Western coast of Asia Minor.That's why it was inhabited by Ancient Hellens in a very short period of time and without great difficulty.The same for the Pontian coast.There were major cities deep in the mainland of Asia Minor,such as Hattusa ,Tuvanuva,Arrina,Kanes etc ,but not in the coast.With the exception of the kingdom of Troy,if we accept that it was in the area near Ellispontos.
 
The truth is, originally Turkish names don't begin with "s", that's why we call "Stanbul" as "Istanbul", Spain as "Ispanya" or Scotland as "Iskochya".
 
In fact Scotland can be related to the Hellenic word Scotos ,meaning darkness,due to the fact that in Scotland the sun does not come up frequently.
 
makes more sense than the Greek theory.
 
Concerning the name,what we are talking about here is  4 different languages:Medieval Hellenic,Turkish,Persian,Arabic.There are many names for Constantinople in Hellenic,let alone the other languages.But nobody can deny the fact that the word Istanbul has a great similarity with the Hellenic  phrase "is tin Poli".
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Posts: 694 		  Quote Digenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 15:03
Well,as it was said before how could a city that was known for 800 years to the Muslims,without being Muslim to be called "Full of Islam" or "find islam" or other funny things?

"Islambul" is obviously degenerated "Istanbul".
In every serious etymological dictionary u will find that this is a folk's etymology ,after 16th century.

What if both of the names of the City are Greek??Confused
Accept it or not this City was there for 2000 years- with greek culture- before the conquest by the Turks.

It s like the recent catalogue of monuments of the City,that the mayor offered to the children of elementary schools ,in order to learn about the monuments of Istanbul.
Agia Sophia was not included!!

What are these people afraid of?Confused
They should be happy for the rich culture of the City,both before and after 1453...
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